<p>I also just remembered that OP said not all of the Asian kids were asked where they were from, either.</p>
<p>Aren’t there lessons we can all learn here?</p>
<p>First, think about how you ask questions about a person’s identity. Be sensitive to how you might be perceived, and be quick to clarify if you’re misunderstood.</p>
<p>Second, realize that not all questions about your identity are in bad taste and/or ill-intentioned. Some people may genuinely be interested in your heritage or just be asking a simple question like “Where [what part of the United States] do you come from?”</p>
<p>Everyone is capable of using good manners. Being sensitive to others and giving others the benefit of the doubt are ways of being polite.</p>
<p>jym: What I am saying is that the motivation of the substitute doesn’t matter. The question, in this context, is inappropriate regardless of motivation. </p>
<p>Frequently, I am guilty of saying hurtful and offense things, though without a hurtful or offensive motivation. What I say is still wrong. And I owe you an apology for comments on another thread. I apologize.</p>
<p>Bay: you and I had a conversation on another thread regarding whether intent was necessary for words or actions to be racist. We disagreed.</p>
<p>I happen to feel the OP brings up some very important questions. I really appreciate sweetcupcake’s posts on the subject.</p>
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I totally agree! sweetcupcake also has been gracious and reasonable all through the thread. Obviously a very classy and mature individual with excellent taste in usernames.</p>
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<p>And my point in my posts to yours is that the source itself isn’t authoritative. Hence, the definition it’s based on isn’t, either. </p>
<p>I find this especially interesting considering there has been ongoing controversy among many groups ranging from citizens groups to demographers as to the veracity and the inclusive completeness of the racial/ethnic classifications used by the Fed. </p>
<p>And then there’s the confounding factor that one major source of the Fed information, the US Census has a policy of allowing the individual surveyed to choose whichever racial/ethnic group(s) he/she wishes to identify him/herself. Even allowing those surveyed to write in ones referencing Sci-Fi and fictional literary works.</p>
<p>^good to know. Next time I’m listing myself as bene gesserit.</p>
<p>^ ^</p>
<p>And if you choose to do so, you’re well within your rights. </p>
<p>Moreover, when I was working on it back in 2000, it was violation of census policy if the census worker in question questions you about your choice or worse, attempts to try to persuade you to choose a classification he/she believes better matches that of your name/physical appearance.</p>
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<p>I know I have participated in many threads about race, mostly about affirmative action, but I’m sorry I don’t recall the specific one you are referring to.</p>
<p>In this instance, I do not think one can reasonably conclude that the sub in question was being “racist” based upon the facts presented. The term “racist” has negative connotations, meaning that one believes one or more races is “superior” to other races. It is quite possible that the sub is a racist, but it is impossible to know this without more information. </p>
<p>alh, do you feel you can conclude whether the sub is racist based on the facts here?</p>
<p>Bay: I don’t know how many more times I can write that I, personally, feel whether the sub is racist has nothing whatsoever to do with the questions being inappropriate. I don’t even care. I don’t think it is necessary I care, because the questions shouldn’t be asked in the classroom regardless of the reason for asking them. Others will care and disagree on this point, I’m sure.</p>
<p>I have also posted twice, or maybe thrice (with a major misspelling in one post) that a discussion of racism or xenophobia is a side issue here. imho.</p>
<p>Okay, then why did you bring it up to me?</p>
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<p>I’m sorry, but that is simply a ridiculous statement.</p>
<h1>350 Because we are once again discussing motivation vs actions and when it matters and when it doesn’t. And because it is a variation on an earlier exchange.</h1>
<p>adding:
If the substitute’s questions are inappropriate because of their impact on the student, we don’t have to consider the substitute’s motives. </p>
<p>We keep getting on the subject of racism in this thread. That may be a useful discussion. It isn’t a necessary discussion to determine the OP is correct in thinking the questions inappropriate. imo</p>
<p>If we can change behaviors without finding it necessary to attribute ill-intent to those behaviors - that seems good to me. I don’t know if it is possible. I am interested in exploring the idea.</p>
<p>changed my response in response to your edits.</p>
<p>alh,</p>
<p>Racial discrimination was discussed because you brought it up with your selected definition of “singled-out.”</p>
<p>I think we have been discussing racism off and on since the thread began. I think oldmom may be right that sweetcupcake saw this as a racist incident. To me it sounds like something a bit different.</p>
<p>Do you think the substitute’s questions are only inappropriate if the substitute can be shown to be racist? That is what I am trying to ask in a very round about way.</p>
<p>I’d say the substitute’s actions are inappropriate even if the substitute is not racist, either in the narrow intent version of racism or the more broad effect version of racism.</p>
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<p>I feel I cannot answer whether the question was inappropriate, unless someone can explain to me why “where are you from?” or “where are YOU from?” is an offensive phrase. I have been asking this over and over, and no one has provided an answer.</p>
<p>My suspicion is that some people <em>assume</em> that the question is always “loaded.” In other words, if you ask someone that question, it automatically implies that the target has no or lesser rights to be present in the country. I personally think that is an unreasonable and unfair assumption, that projects malicious intent where none has been earned. I keep waiting for someone to explain to me why I am wrong. I promise I will listen.</p>
<h1>355^thank you!!!</h1>
<p>If we agree on this, we don’t have to accuse the substitute of racism to point out the questions are inappropriate.</p>
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<p>You can freely argue that with older Irish and Italian colleagues and acquaintances who came of age during the 50’s, 60’s, and even early '70s in NYC and moreso, Boston where they recounted being othered as “foreign” and not considered White in the most virulent terms by other Whites…especially WASPs. </p>
<p>It has also been documented by American history/studies scholars and biographical accounts. </p>
<p>One biographical account of an Irish-American I read for a US history class which referenced this covered the Southie busing issue where in addition to White/Black tensions, there were also exhibited tensions between the mostly working-class Irish-Americans in that Boston neighborhood versus the mostly upper/upper-middle class WASPs who already lived in the well-off Boston suburbs or fled there during the '60s. The WASPs back then still didn’t regard the Irish as being of the same “White race” as themselves.</p>
<p>There’s also the matter that CUNY still regards Italian-Americans as being an underrepresented minority group for whom affirmative action policies applies due to past history. I posted a NYT article referencing that in post #320.</p>
<p>cobrat, I am half Irish. This is complete nonsense. Never, for one nanosecond, were any of my forebears or me considered to be anything but white. I’d be happy to argue with any idiot who says otherwise.</p>
<p>Of course there was prejudice against the Irish, as there has been against EVERY wave of immigration. Not at ALL the same thing.</p>
<p>You are over-reaching.</p>
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<p>You need to explain why you’d say they are inappropriate, in order for it to be helpful to this discussion.</p>