<p>What I asked the four teachers:<br>
I am part of a forum that discusses issues. A student asked opinions of this: a sub was given a lesson plan for AP history. The class included some kids with unusual surnames. In taking roll, he asked some kids about their ethnic origins. As teachers, do you think that was inappropriate? They all jumped to say, NO! I asked , what if he phrased it, where do you come from? They all said, no. If these kids were darker skinned? No. </p>
<p>They were interrupting each other to say how it’s a natural question, that it’s OK to be curious. I said, but a student was the poster and was offended. Their reaction boiled down to, “Why?”</p>
<p>I said that some adults felt it otherized them. The teachers disagreed. I said some felt the teacher should be called on the incident and they disagreed it merited some action or rebuke.</p>
<p>I posted as the meeting was starting, to share that. </p>
<p>What if what happened DID single some out? Is that enough to cry foul? We know very little about this class or the individuals other than what OP noted.</p>
<p>Some people on here have also said that the sub was wasting time asking questions. I just want to say that when roll is being taken, lots of things can be going on at the same time. At our school, that is when the lap tops are being turned on, pencils are being sharpen, some kids are still arriving, etc. Kids and teachers do not just come in the room and start working. Usually by the time you get done with taking attendance, you are still waiting for the lap tops to be ready. By the way, I was subbing in the elementary school today where kids want to be singled out. They pretty much fight to be the center of attention- constantly.</p>
<p>Look, cobrat, I don’t know what you are basing this nonsense on, but the experience of being of ANY white European ancestry in the US is very different when one chooses to live in a ghettoized urban ethnic enclave, whether one is of Irish, Italian, Ukrainian, German, or whatever background. The people who live in Southie have remained there many generations after other people left their immigrant neighborhoods and moved on. Many others never lived in those neighborhoods to start with, or only very briefly. Southie and its ilk are a tiny minority of people in the US with Irish ancestry. </p>
<p>You can’t extrapolate from their experience to most other people’s. Yes, the Boston Brahmin’s didn’t regard all of those immigrants flooding into Boston as being of the same Anglo-Saxon stock as themselves. The Irish spoke English. They were considered less “other” than people from the Mediterranean or Eastern Europe.</p>
<p>Anyway, I’m not hijacking this thread further by pursuing this with you.</p>
<p>First off, I’ve only followed this thread so closely so apologies if I’ve missed something key or am repeating a thought others have already voiced. The original post says an AP Gov class. Wondering if it is an AP Comparative Government and Politics class or AP US Government and Politics class (no need for OP to give any more info on this), or if it was AP US Gov and the sub could have thought it was comparative, or happen to have more familiarity or interest in that. If it was a comparative government class, I can see some connection in someone thinking, “Oh, this student might have insights into another gov’t,” but I have no idea if that’s what the individual was thinking, nor am I saying I think this was a great approach. Perhaps the sub was trying to make the subject relevant to the students? </p>
<p>I can see a student feeling uncomfortable and put on the spot if right off at the start of class he/she is asked where he/she is from and then news about tensions in that country are brought up. Certain buzz words also. In general, I’m pretty picky about who I want to talk politics with myself. In a government and politics class I imagine controversial topics do come up on occasion.</p>
<p>That was putting together the manner in which the attendance roll call was taken which not only included from OP’s first post:</p>
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<p>but also putting the OP on the spot by asking what could easily be a politically loaded question:</p>
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<p>However, the main part of the time wasting is later when in the same post, OP recounted:</p>
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<p>Now, that’s definitely wasting time as it is not only completely irrelevant to the lesson plan the regular teacher left for the sub(The Constitution), but also irrelevant for the class altogether. </p>
<p>Not to mention unless OP’s high school structures their classes very differently from the high schools in NYC and Boston, 35 minutes is a substantial chunk of a regular class period…which was 40 minutes when I attended junior high and high school in the NYC public school system. </p>
<p>Taking OP’s account in her first post, yes…that sub was certainly wasting time by any reasonable account. And the last part is certainly an insult against the OP I hope most here would feel was seriously uncalled for.</p>
<p>Cobrat, again, not defending sub, but it makes me wonder if the sub is used to teaching ESL. Idioms get focused on in ESL classes and can be difficult. The sub might have thought he was being helpful.</p>
<p>Whether it’s 40 minutes long or 80 minutes long, 35 minutes is a long time to spend on a topic completely irrelevant to the class and original lesson plan. </p>
<p>It also probably felt longer for the OP who had no only already been put on the spot, but insulted on top of that on account of not being knowledgeable about a topic which wasn’t in the domain of the class the sub was supposed to be covering.</p>
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<p>I’d find that odd considering the sub should have known he was covering an AP USH/Govt class. Especially considering the regular teacher did leave him a lesson plan on the Constitution which he chose to ignore.</p>
<p>The op made it very clear in her first post that only non-white students were questioned, and only non-white students who are USUALLY darker-skinned. So I don’t feel your answer was entirely accurate. The sub DID NOT ask random kids with last names like Smith or Jones. ONLY non-typical names and only non-whites.</p>
<p>Sheesh, as much as possible, I phrased it to allow these folks to give their own opinions. </p>
<p>Perhaps try to reread the intention in my question, to reflect what we have been discussing. If this turns to questioning MY motives, there won’t be ANY way I can convince you. So, I won’t try. </p>
<p>Perhaps some find it offensive that, seated next to four public school teachers, I asked their opinions. ???</p>
<p>Sorry I haven’t posted in awhile. The end of our marking period is tomorrow, and I’ve been busy studying for two major tests I have. I haven’t been able read all the new comments, so I respond to some of the last couple.</p>
<p>In our school, two classes rotate on block scheduling, but the other five (including the AP US government class in question) are 50 mins each day. The sub took about 5 mins taking attendance (estimated-longer than usual because of the questioning). after that, we took a timed 15 vocab quiz ( It might have been nice if the sub had ignored THAT ). The sub then spoke about idioms for the rest of class. If you do the math, he spoke for 30 mins, not 35 like I said earlier. My bad. </p>
<p>We were supposed to start a project (independently) for the remainder of class, but the sub was too busy talking about idioms to even pass the materials out.</p>
<p>It was an AP US Government class. </p>
<p>Ironically, in AP COMPARATIVE GOV (not the class were talking about) Nigeria is one of the 6 countries covered. :)</p>
<p>Edited to add: If we are to take the man at his word, he is a retired AP US History teacher at another high school in our district.</p>
<p>I am only on page 1, and this thread might have taken a turn in another direction, but I met a little African American boy, who might fit many an African American stereotype (his two year old sister said “Two Chainz” and flashed a sign with her fingers, instead of cheese when pretending to get her picture taken) with a very Jewish last name. I couldn’t help but laugh when I imagined the surprise a few job interviewers might get.</p>
<p>Shrinkrap, I laughed before your edit, and even harder after your edit! </p>
<p>Employers don’t know how to take my name. Both my first and last name could be french. I’m always asked how to pronounce my last name and what the origin is. I wish I knew the origin of my last name!</p>
<p>Bay, are you suggesting there is no attention to race, especially being Mexican, in California? I a not disagreeing with your basic premise, but it is not my experience that California is race neutral.</p>
<p>A few months ago I called a local school psych about a boy wwithHspanic surname. She went on and on about him and his family. A week later she called back to say she was talking about the wrong boy.</p>
<p>Edited to add: If we are to take the man at his word, he is a retired AP US History teacher at another high school in our district. </p>
<p>What an odd thing to say! I’m wondering who is approaching this situation with an agenda. The only comment I’ve ever heard about a sub is “Nothing happened today. We had a sub”. No offense to all you wonderful subs.</p>
<p>Considering he decided to completely ignore your regular AP Government teacher’s original lesson plan on the Constitution, I don’t think it’s unreasonable if you or anyone else has some skepticism on that point. </p>
<p>Especially considering this also makes his half-hour discussion of idioms even more puzzling…</p>
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<p>I didn’t have as many “nothing happened today” subs in high school as I did in junior high. </p>
<p>If anything, some of the high school subs were not only retired teachers of the subject of the class they were subbing for, some felt our regular teachers were covering the material “too slowly” and ended up not only covering the original lesson plan, but covered around 3+ classes worth of material in one subbed 40 minute session. While we hated it at first, it did help us later in the term when exam time came around.</p>
<p>AP teachers tend to be more crunched for time than other teachers, since our final exam is in mid May, rather than mid June, and we have more material to cover. I don’t understand why a former AP teacher would waste so much class time when we had work to do.</p>
<p>I highly doubt that time was really “wasted”. </p>
<p>If an AP teacher is “doing it right” they would’ve incorporated a flexible schedule that can handle one or two day of unexpected situations and adjust their teaching schedule to whatever that situation is. Sure they may be “crunched for time” but I doubt you guys will be effected in a significant way. </p>
<p>30 minutes, although valuable, is not that valuable when your AP exam is 6 months away.</p>
<p>Well, Cobrat, not many teachers would appreciate a sub that taught 3+ classes ahead. That is not following the plans either.</p>
<p>Sweetcupcake, I believe you when you said you had a bad sub. There are incompentent people everywhere. I guess I hope that he really didn’t mean to insult you but that he truly was curious and awkward. I did wonder if any of the students were exchange students as I think many people are curious (in a good way) towards them.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t say there is no attention paid to race in CA, as much as CA tends to be foreigner/non-foreigner neutral. I don’t think there is much of a stigma attached to being a recent immigrant of any race here, as about 30% are foreign-born. People here are accustomed to meeting recent immigrants from all over; it is not at all unusual that any given high school class in CA might include quite a few recent immigrants, as well as at the highest echelons of the high-tech industry.</p>
<p>I do think a bias against undocumented immigrants (Mexican or otherwise) exists in CA for some people (but certainly not all, as polls show), as it does everywhere. But it is more of a philosophical bias, as it is impossible to know who is or is not undocumented, as Hispanics are now the majority minority here, including by birth.</p>
). The sub then spoke about idioms for the rest of class. If you do the math, he spoke for 30 mins, not 35 like I said earlier. My bad. </p>