Is it true that Ivy League schools offer the same education as "common" universities?

College Search & Lists
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<p>Asa, I am not sure why you are trying to argue this. I belive most people here are aware that Yale can’t be better than some state universities in all aspects. As an example, if we are comparing Honda Civic to Mercedes, we all know that Honda Civic is better than Mercedes in some aspects. Civic would give you better gas mileage, better warranty and customer services, and would cost much less than a Mercedes. But, Mercedes is definitely better in most, not all, aspects which include safety, performance, comfort, luxury, style, and so on. Just like this, Yale or any other top school can’t be better than any others in all the aspects. But, Yale is much better than others in most categories, including better job placement, better grad school placement, better networking, and arguably much better education in many areas.</p>

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<p>^Undergrad Business also comes to mind</p>

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<p>Most people that find classes easy at their “elite” college would also probably find classes easy at an “any given” university. You don’t hear of people not being able to handle the workload at “random” university, and then transferring into SWAP so that they can enjoy an less rigorous course of study.</p>

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<p>Patlees88,</p>

<p>That is where we disagree. I believe that you can get just as good an education, if not better, at a handful of America’s public schools than you can at Yale. Those who pay for the name are being duped.</p>

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<p>Wow Asa, that rejection hit your self esteem pretty hard, huh?</p>

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<p>Excuse me? If only you knew where I went to school, darling.</p>

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<p>Even if you’re right about the quality of education, I disagree that people are being duped. Somebody who buys a Prada handbag knows that it won’t hold her stuff any better than a bag from Target. I don’t think that makes her a “dupe,” exactly, except to the extent she’s a dupe of consumerism. Is that what you mean?</p>

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<p>Well, the comparison to the Prada handbag is trivializing the situation because these students are somtimes paying upwards of $200,000 more than they need to, not $2,000.</p>

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<p>Whatever helps you sleep at night Asa.</p>

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<p>And the same to you beefs.</p>

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<p>Well, ASA, here is a point for you to consider. Some people could pay up to an extra $100,000 for their child to go to a top private school over a state school. However, in cases of financial aid, it is often less expensive to attend an ivy or other top school, being that these top schools often offer the most financial aid.</p>

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<p>Yes, chicagoboy12, and if you read my previous posts I state CLEARLY that same concept; I say if you CAN get an education tantamount or superior to that of a more “elite” school for A LESS AMOUNT OF MONEY than you should. read more carefully.</p>

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<p>Ultimately the answer depends on what you define “common” as. If you define common as average in everything, then the answer is obvious…NO. The Ivies have a better than average faculty, resources, basically everything thus the experiences for a top student couldn’t be comparable. However, if you mean “common” as a state school, Berkeley, often seen as the best state school, it would be pretty obvious that the education is certainly comparable.</p>

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<p>See, I don’t think anybody will argue that there aren’t public schools on par with ivy league schools. However, if you’re not from their state it can often be quite difficult to get good financial aid packages, and in that case, you probably would be better off with any ivy since they’re a bit more generous.</p>

<p>I went to Carnegie Mellon, a very competitive technical private school, and my education cost about the same price as my brother’s, even though he went to the University of Pittsburgh and we’re Pennsylvania natives.</p>

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<p>Asa, I get the impression that your definition of education isn’t what it is supposed to be. Sure, state schools would teach you similar materials as the ivies contentwise. Students at either places can choose to read same textbooks and learn same things. But, education experience at a college is much more than that. Factors such as learning from smart, challenging peers and your social and leadership growth have also have to be factored into the equation. Not only that, ivies tend to offer more individualized attention than state schools due to smaller size of the classes and more capital per student available. Top notch students would find their profs more accessible and would find research opportunities much more available than state schools. It can’t be denied that ivies offer more educational opportunities and better qualitiy of it compared to state schools to the top students. An average student, who might not care about these opportunities that ivies have for the students, could go to the state school and get as good of an education there. But, ivies are designed for top students anyway in the first place. Lastly, most people who go to ivies, esp. HYP, get generous financial aid bc these schools have massive amount of endowment. People who pay significantly more to go to the ivies are proabably very well-off and they simply make the consumer choice to choose a better good for a higher price. I don’t think that people who buy Mercedes over a Honda Civic are necessarily “duped”. Even if both cars will get you to where you want to go, the qualitiy of the driving experience on the way is simply different.</p>

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<p>ASA- Actually you NEVER mentioned that in this thread. I have been reading it and it appears you only talked about the general faculty/education aspects of colleges, mainly comparing Berkeley and Yale. You could stop being arrogant and perhaps admit that I did have a good point without making it out to be that you already accounted for that point (when you actually didn’t).</p>

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<p>Ok, ok. I have nothing to input on the “common” university versus an Ivy League school. Personally I would go to Princeton over UMass any day, despite UMass being completely free for me. If I lived in a state that had a top in-state university, i.e. California or Michigan, then I would reconsider.</p>

<p>But what about a top 50 school, for example Wesleyan, vs Princeton? A Mercedes vs an Audi? Do you think you can distinguish between the two schools in their quality then?</p>

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<p>ASA, I’ve attended many classes at the University of Michigan throughout my college search process and when I come home for breaks to visit my friends and experience their college experience. Public schools like Michigan often have ridiculously large classes (300+), professors who talk to you like you’re five years old (i’ve seen this on multiple occassions), and very little personal attention. In fact, at U of M, students are often given I.D. numbers and that is how they are identified. Professors assign grades to a bunch of numbers rather than students’ names!! I would not be getting a superior education at a school that treated me like a number rather than a human being.</p>

<p>I attend Yale. I’ve experienced life in a public school and at an elite school. The quality difference is obvious. I haven’t yet had a class larger than 30 students, and my smallest class has 8 students. Plus I’m a freshman. Students here only get more and more attention as they progress. Furthermore, as a freshmen, I was able to get numerous research and international internship opportunities (plus FREE funding). Four of my friends at U of M are left in the dust right now because there are too many students to accommodate, and not nearly enough resources for these types of opportunities.</p>

<p>And might I point out that Harvard, Yale, and Princeton are the top 3 value colleges in the nation according to U.S. News and World Report. They are elite schools, and are incredibly affordable. At Harvard and Yale, students whose families make less than 60,000 per year pay NOTHING. At Harvard, student families making between 100-180 thousand per year pay less than 10 percent of their total income. At Yale, this range goes up to 200,000 dollars in income. The VAST majority of American families will pay less than 20,000 to send their kid to Harvard or Yale, and a good percentage of these families will pay next to nothing. Three of my six suitemates are currently going to Yale on a full need-based ride. </p>

<p>Therefore, for the vast majority (95%+) of American families, it is cheaper to send their kid to Harvard or Yale than it is to send them to their flagship state school. The difference is that Harvard and Yale offer better educations than many state schools, or at least from my experiences, the University of Michigan (which is the #2 public school in the nation).</p>

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<p>^being a number isn’t that bad</p>

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<p>Let’s also not forget that elite schools have far more money than your “common” school. More money increases opportunities, both curricular and extracurricular. These experiences are a large part of a higher quality educational experience; after all, education is not just classes, professors, etc. </p>

<p>For instance, one of my suitemates (at Yale) is in a freshmen seminar on Japanese culture. The eighteen students are going to Japan for a week at the end of the school year, and Yale is paying for them for all of their expenses. The trip was a surprise, and there was no application process; the students who signed up for the course get an amazing, enriching, and free cultural experience. </p>

<p>Additionally, many extracurricular groups including the symphony, a cappella groups, and student government all get to travel at Yale’s expense. A girl living in my building spent spring break in London going on tour with her a cappella group. Another boy in my dorm spent spring break in Fiji, California, and New Zealand at Yale’s expense. A third kid in my building went to Japan for a cappella at Yale’s expense. Our symphony tours Europe every summer as well. Also, Yale’s college council (main student government body) gets around $200,000 a year to run itself and to hold campus events, many of which are cultural and involve getting famous speakers. I am on Yale’s Ivy Council, and Yale pays for my group to travel to a different Ivy League school every semester to conduct a student government conference; we exchange ideas, discuss important issues, and make important contacts. </p>

<p>Plus, Yale’s enormous wealth allows for unthinkable amounts of extracurricular opportunities. In addition to the Yale Symphony Orchestra, there are four other campus symphonies. There are 4 or 5 political groups and endless cultural groups. We have hip-hop dance teams to chess club to equestrian teams. Also, each of our 12 residential colleges hold Master’s Teas every week. At these types of events, famous individuals such as Edward Norton, Henry Kissinger, Merrill Streep, the editor for the New York Times, etc. come talk to Yale students. My residential college also has the funding for free monthly cultural experiences in New York; students get free tickets to the opera, the symphony, ballets, etc. </p>

<p>For all students on financial aid, Yale pays for each one of them to study abroad anywhere in the world for a semester. Most “common” schools can’t afford to do this for its students. </p>

<p>My point is, money makes a huge difference in both curricular and extracurricular opportunities; all of which enhance the educational experience. I’m sorry, but most schools cannot compete with a $22.5 billion endowment (Harvard has somewhere around $35 billion). </p>

<p>And guess what, Tony Blair is teaching at Yale next year. Yes, TEACHING. You don’t get these types of educational opportunities at your common university.</p>