<p>I don’t know what the statistics are regarding philandering husbands as compared to philandering wives. But the last thing I personally want is one more person in my life to whom I am obligated. If I had a boyfriend (what’s the male equivalent of mistress? They call it “mastress” on How I Met Your Mother, but that can’t be right), I’d have to make time for him, as well as for my husband, kids, mother, job, etc. - and probably spend a lot more on underwear than I do right now. What’s the upside?</p>
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<p>That’s the thing…it is the lying and deception and secrets. If they want to be in a relationship where they can have more than one partner…agree to it first! </p>
<p>For example, while I can’t relate to this at all…my sister-in-law is in a open relationship that adheres to polyamory. She lives with someone but they can see other people and have sex with them and all in an open and honest way and none of it is a secret. Everyone involved consents to their partners having relations with others. They consider it “responsible monogamy.” There is an emphasis on transparency. Again, not for me…but obviously the people involved adhere to this philosophy and consent to this arrangement. That’s the difference with infidelity that is a secret and deceptive and hurts another party.</p>
<p>bookworm - it was my ex’s affinity for placing his priority on all his “crushes” that did us in more than anything else. I needed to be a priority but alas he said I was not “needy” enough for him. And we were young when we married and too blinded to see the obvious signs that we were not meant for the long term but we gave it more than a decade worth of effort.</p>
<p>I am beyond content with my husband and for us monogomy is where it’s at 
However like others have mentioned, I’ll leave it up to each individual to find what works for them without harming others.</p>
<p>Along the way I did read an interesting book that speaks to much of this, “the Ethical Slut”: [Amazon.com:</a> The Ethical Slut: A Practical Guide to Polyamory, Open Relationships & Other Adventures (9781587613371): Dossie Easton, Janet W. Hardy: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Ethical-Slut-Practical-Relationships-Adventures/dp/1587613379]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/Ethical-Slut-Practical-Relationships-Adventures/dp/1587613379)</p>
<p>In all fairness over the course of a long partnership or marriage there are times when neither one of you are attracted/in love w/each other, or when only one is.
It isn’t going to be " in love" for both all the time 24/7.
We also can build walls between ourselves and our partner & may resent them because they know things about us, that we wish they didn’t.
( at other times that may be a great relief)
A stranger can be very appealing because we can present only the parts of us we want to show ( & we only see the side of them that we want to see).</p>
<p>I don’t think most people intend to become unfaithful, but one person can’t meet all your needs- we all need a separate life. I am * not saying* that means that becoming close emotionally/physically with someone else is a good idea- but for instance in a marriage where both people are stressed with jobs/money/kids, they haven’t already had in place the priority to put their marriage first- it is really easy for that to get the dregs of their time & energy.
That is a very dangerous place to be because it is easy for a little outside attention to be like water to someone dying of thirst.</p>
<p>Re: sex & friendships- I find it easy to talk to some men, however I do think they may look on friendships with women differently than the women do.
I don’t think women have any problem not being flirtatious or thinking it is " more" than a casual friendship- but while I never used to believe this- I think " some" men are wired differently.</p>
<p>I treasure my friendships with women because there is a lot more shared history that I can relate to. My bookgroup talks about serious issues all the time, in fact I was complaining about it, because all the books we were reading were so painful. ( about women being stoned to death in the middle east after being raped for example)
I needed a fluffy book after that one- not Little Bee.</p>
<p>ShillyS, thank goodness both of us were able to move on and find good partners. Among the miriad of verbally abusive remarks I hear was the one that no one else would want me, that I couldn’t do better. Within months I met my current partner.</p>
<p>Frazzled, I think the upside is when the marriage has been unfulfilling for years. One man I know stayed with his wife for years, even though she refused any sexual relationships since her one pregnancy. It was inevitable that a wonderful colleague would begin to fulfill his emotional needs, and eventually more (they are now married).</p>
<p>I think there is a real difference between a self-centered, impulsive person who has liasons, not thinking about the hurt s/he could do partner, children, and families.</p>
<p>Another couple I know (now in their 80’s) have had long-term affairs. The attend every function as a couple. Their contact with others is discrete, hidden hours during the day. They have agreed to never discuss these relationships. Like Sooziet wrote, its all about the rules the people agree to.</p>
<p>Sorry, maybe I misunderstood. I felt I was being accused of demeaning women, when all I thought I was doing was sharing that I, personally, do not relate to the typical topics of conversation that occur in the groups of women I encounter. It’s MY own feeling about MY own experience, and not any kind of universal anti-female proclamation from which anyone must defend women by labeling it “demeaning.” And I do think that many women are very insecure and overly-sensitive, so that all one has to do is say something completely trivial such as, “I don’t enjoy gardening” and the lady that loves gardening will get very offended and act as though the other woman has attacked the core of her being. That kind of stuff is unfathomable to me, and men don’t tend to react like that.</p>
<p>H & I have are also celebrating 25 years of happy monogamy (sometimes admiring but never touching). My sibs (with their respective partners) & folks have celebrated similar milestoens–my folks are working toward their 60th in a few years. Much depends on the environment & expectations of those involved. Yes, there have been opportunities & temptations, but none worth the heartache to those we love.</p>
<p>Biology suggests that humans can be monogamous, but we are close to falling off the edge.</p>
<p>Back when I was studying biology in college we studied the relationships between animal morphology and behavior. And one of the interesting relationships is between the degree of physical similarity or disimilarity (dimorphism) between the sexes of a given species and whether or not members of that species are monogamous.</p>
<p>In species that mate for life the sexes are often almost identical - swans, Canada geese, penguins, etc. But species in which one sex (usually males) has many mates the males are typically a lot larger in order to defend the harem (e.g. elephant seals) or more elaborately decked out to attract many mates in courtship rituals (e.g. lots of bird species). Species that stay mated for an entire breeding season but change mates yearly tend to fall somehwere in the middle of the two extremes.</p>
<p>You can draw a graph with % dimorphism on one axis and degree of monogamy on the other and get roughly a straight line. Now humans differ between the sexes in both size and in appearance of secondary sex characteristics (beards and breasts) by about 10%. The sexes are about 90% the same and 10% different. </p>
<p>Looking at the % dimorphism graph that puts humans about right on the border between monogamous breeders and seasonal breeders - which I would say is pretty good description of how humans actually generally behave. Some pairs stay monogamous and some move off to find other partners.</p>
<p>I’m not pointing this out to give anyone biological excuses for bad behavior but merely to show that the rules of reproductive biology apply to us too. It’s nice to know where we stand.</p>
<p>So is monogamy unrealistic? No, but it’s not easy either. Or so says our degree of sexual dimorphism.</p>
<p>Fascinating take, coureur - thank you for a great explanation.
I think you’re right, bookworm. When one or both partners have let the marriage deteriorate to that point, does it feel like that much of a betrayal when someone cheats? Is the non-cheating partner really all that surprised?</p>
<p>I’d say a couple certainly has the right to decide that monogamy isn’t for them, as in the relationships soozievt and bookworm mention. But if there are children, I wonder how they feel about it, even if both parents are willing to accept a non-monogamous marriage.</p>
<p>I often think that we are asking a lot from marriage nowadays. I don’t think it was designed to to be 50 or 60 years long, for one thing.</p>
<p>I recently was privileged to attend a joyous 60th anniversary celebration. Not only has the couple been happily married, they work together every day. He is a professor & she types & edits his work. They have been very successful–in their business relationship & marriage & have a large extended family as well as ALL their in-laws–ALL are welcome in their lives and homes.</p>
<p>“I’d say a couple certainly has the right to decide that monogamy isn’t for them, as in the relationships soozievt and bookworm mention. But if there are children, I wonder how they feel about it, even if both parents are willing to accept a non-monogamous marriage.”</p>
<p>Perhaps better than they would about an unhappy marriage, or about a divorce. Who knows? It’s always wise to put one dollar in the therapy fund for every dollar in the college one.</p>
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<p>That might explain Schwarzenegger.</p>
<p>My in laws had a wonderful 60th anniversary party last summer. My mom died just a month before my parents’ 55th anniversary last spring. My H and I just celebrated our 28th anniversary last week. To my knowledge, we all have been one-man women or one-woman men. I suppose no one else would put up with us! I’ve always told my kids that no one is perfect & that your spouse needs to be your friend … don’t depend on him/her to make you happy; that’s your job. Depend on your spouse to give you love, friendship, and support, but don’t expect him/her be your everything. That’s not fair. Balance in the relationship is important. And for heaven’s sake … if you find someone else, be respectful enough to end your relationship before you move on. Obviously, if both partners agree to allow straying, that’s their business. But for those who don’t have that agreement, don’t mess around.</p>
<p>Emeraldkity, please see post #21. I do forgive my husband. I realized I had 3 main choices, one to leave myself and break up our family. Two to stay and be miserable and bitter towards him. Three, to choose to forgive and rebuild our relationship. I chose #3. But there are events in our lives we don’t totally get over and infidelity (for me) is one of them. I pray I will be able to some day. Also, I am extremely thankful we were able to put our marriage back together. My husband is a wonderful man.</p>
<p>Is your H “over” his infidelity? If he is and you are not, that could be an issue, I would think.</p>
<p>I understand what Damaris is saying. She is saying that she DID forgive her husband and moved on and worked on repairing her marriage. She is thankful for her husband and thinks well of him today. But the memory of the infidelity is a painful memory. I think one can forgive and move on but reflect back on that time as very painful. It doesn’t mean she is living in daily pain now but the thought of that experience is a painful memory. I think there are painful things that can happen to you in life and you can move on in life but the memory is still a painful one when you think back on it. I applaud Damariss for repairing the marriage and at the same time feel for the pain she suffered at the time when this happened.</p>
<p>Yes, I understand, too. When something kicks up the feelings, like a big shot getting his marriage caught in his zipper, it hurts. I understand. There are things like that for everyone, even if not “this” particular thing. </p>
<p>Marriage, over time, people get hurt, say things, do things, and both people have to forgive things and move on. It’s not even always something that obvious, but it exists beneath the surface in every long term intimacy, I think.</p>
<p>Marriage is like that.</p>
<p>My grandmother used to say that the people who could stay married chose to untie the knot every once in a while when it got too tight and to retie it a little further down. the people who couldn’t stay married (she had no judgement about this, was very forward for a catholic) just needed to cut it. Either way, she said, it wasn’t exactly the same as it had been before. Good luck.</p>
<p>GFG, I very much understand where you are coming from. I also seek out men at times in mixed groups, as I need to discuss things that are not discussed in female company for the most part. In my case, it is partially because I am long term single, and need to talk taxes, investment, home repair, cars. And I truly am interested in various esoteric subjects, more than some women I know, though I’m usually in groups of people better educated than me. I also enjoy neighborhood gossip and female topics, but need variety. This is more a commentary on a microcosm of female culture in this country, than a condemnation of women. Perhaps I’m more androgynous than some. I can’t imagine any sparks flying, and would avoid anything along that line like the plague, especially in the married crowds I see socially. CC has been wonderful for me as well, as there are men and women whose minds range in all sorts of directions, with a wider scope than IRL.</p>
<p>I can totally empathize with GFG, and I have made similar comments, and it is not meant to be a demeaning generalization about women. After all, I am a woman.</p>
<p>When I bring my younger daughter to a birthday party, I’ll talk with the fathers. They’ll discuss things like education philosophies and such. I’m sure it’s just because I’m wired a bit differently, but I find many women do blather about what I find to be inane subjects in group gatherings. They are not groups I would search out but I am forced into.</p>
<p>I have worked in my career in engineering groups, much of the time where I was the only woman. And I was totally comfortable with that, and was treated as one of the guys.</p>
<p>My older daughter is in a dance company, and I do find the mothers in that group more tolerable. The conversation has more substance, and the snark is first rate.</p>
<p>Martina - I am just like you! My best friends have always been men, I work in a male-dominated industry, I am a mom of a D in a sport that is also male-dominated (hockey) and I am more comfortable socially around men. It has proven difficult a couple of times in a small-town atmosphere where tongues like to wag and a married woman being friends with a single guy constitutes adultery (snark? You don’t know the HALF of it!!), but my H of 20+ years knows how I am wired - his trust in me is so amazing!</p>