“The husband shouldn’t have called the OP “greedy,” but I think it’s clear that the comment went to a whole course of disagreements about money and family and rules, not $10 that day.”
I would speculate this is true. OP, did you also mention your thoughts to her husband about husband tossing $100 to his sister for groceries to stock the house while family was in town for the funeral? My guess is yes. OP, it does seem obvious that you and your husband are on different planes when it comes to money and financial issues and how it is handled when family is part of the mix. Based on others’ comments, I did go back and read some previous posts where you state your husband and his parents have lived an upper middle class background and that you were raised in extreme poverty. I don’t want to play armchair psychiatrist because all I know is what is posted here but my guess is your very different financial backgrounds and upbringings play into the different ways you view money in general and the money & family issues more specifically. I’m not saying one or the other of you is right or wrong but it is bound to raise some differences between you two. Thinking about how it influences your and your husband’s behavior, thoughts and actions may help you realize that neither of you are acting intentionally to irritate the other. IMO, at this point in time, given your financial situation, the fact it is little money, and the recent events of late with FIL’s death and a grieving family, this is a time to be giving and generous while opening up some deeper conversations beyond this one immediate example when the time is right.
You’ve been very kind with your time and effort to care for your MIL. Do what you feel you can and want to do. If it becomes too much, communicate that openly and clearly to your husband. If others take issue with that, it is on them not you.
A couple of practical things you can also do is help get your MIL on a grocery delivery service and on uber (once the account is linked you don’t have to pay each time) —then she can rely on herself (as she seems to want). AND you can make regular plans to see her several times a week without so much anxiety.
@sylvan8798 I also went back and reviewed a couple of your threads.
It seems to me that your H has somewhat of a history of devaluing your time and energy in monetary terms. I have the same problem with my H, who consistently devalued the importance of my work, apparently because I made less money than he does. The episode where your H took it upon himself to return a portion of money gifted to you by your in laws in recognition of your help with the house they sold because what you did “wasn’t worth that much” was truly offensive behavior on his part.
At the same time, he seems to attach a lot of importance to being able to play the big man who can afford to chip in more and take less than others. It seems as if he may have been engaged in a struggle with his father over this. (One which you wisely tried to sidestep.)
A couple of questions for you: Is your MIL currently living in their original house, the one with the wonderful garden? How has upkeep of this house been managed while they are away? Is she planning to go south by herself, eventually, or has she not made up her mind yet?
In the meantime, perhaps your MIL would like to experiment with Blue Apron or a similar service. You and your H could give her a trial subscription or the like for Christmas. Not that you should stop going to see her or picking things up at the store, but just to expand her sense of the possibilities going forward.
^MIL is at their same house here - they installed a stai rlift last year. H and D and I are taking her to the condo in January (we can only stay a few days to help her get settled in). She will be relying more on the neighbors there, as well as whomever can make it down to spend time (we’re going for 10 days in March). We kind of consider this a big test to see if she can live alone. I’m not encouraged so far, as she seems pretty needy now, but the better weather conditions may help. Maybe that’s wishful thinking.
Keep in mind she lost her husband mere weeks ago. I think I’d probably be a total wreck if something happened to my DH. I’d eventually rebound (and your MIL may or may not), but I imagine my DDs would be required to exercise a good bit of patience for a while.
One thing to look out for here. Often when one spouse dies, it becomes obvious how much the couple was propping each other up, and the remaining spouse loses ground quickly upon losing his/her other half. It sounds like that may be happening here, and you should probably do more than you think should be necessary to help your DH and his sibs notice the decline.
We knew FIL was helping MIL with her physical needs, but after she died it became obvious how much she was helping him with his cognitive needs. The decline was alarming. (And I sort of resent that she didn’t warn her kids what was going on, but that’s a different therapy session.)
I really think that getting her a subscription to something like Blue Apron while she is in her condo would be a good idea. There are several such services. She probably would only need it twice a week at most. It would help her be independent. She’d still be cooking, but she wouldn’t have to go out for groceries. She might get a kick out of it.
BTW, why are YOU and your family taking her down? Because you want to? Because you are the only ones whose schedules permit? Aren’t there 5 siblings? Are they doing other things?
As you know, I am not one to be guarded about helping, but others do need to step up. It sounds as if this trip is not terribly convenient for you.
Many grocery store chains have delivery service. My sense, having tried Blue Apron myself, is that wouldn’t really be all that helpful of a solution in this situation.
BTW, regarding her ability to live alone…there may be things that she hasn’t been doing because of marital division of labor. That doesn’t mean she can’t learn. Give her time. My widowed FIL, a totally helpless man, learned to do his own laundry, thanks to a user’s manual I created for him. (Technical communications being my former career. ) He never learned to cook, though. My mother, although generally a very self-sufficient person, had never used an ATM or used a card to pay at the pump for gas when my father died when she was 87. He used to just put cash in her wallet, and pumped the gas when they went out during the 20 years between his retirement and death. Although she used to day trade as a hobby (!), she is a technophobe, and these things made her break out in a sweat. But she learned. (With the help of many nice men who saw her looking helpless at the pump. ) H and I take care of her finances. I have automated almost all of her payments and I’m on her bank/investment accounts. He does her taxes. She has a TD Ameritrade “mad money” account which she monitors and decides what to buy and sell, but she calls me up to place the orders for her.
This is a work in progress. Everyone is going to need some time. Don’t rush into any decisions or push towards any conclusions until you see how things work out.
My mother is 93, and still living independently in her own house. She’s fine. Your MIL might also be perfectly fine with the aid of Uber, a maid and maintenance service, and Blue Apron or the like. Luckily, it sounds as if she can afford the help she might need.
The others appear to be planning to go down to help out as their schedules allow, although we will not have 100% coverage. Two sibs still have young children. This slot works for us since both D and I are on winter break now.
It sounds like this condo trip might be a perfect opportunity to practice with, or shall we say set precedent for, in-home assistance for your MIL. In the Chicago area, there were plenty of companies that could provide senior helpers, which did not necessarily have to include medical assistance. At one point my mom had someone come by twice a week for four hours at a time who could drive her on errands (in either their car or the client’s car), help cook meals, do light housekeeping and laundry, socialize, and whatever else needed doing.
With MIL on her own at the condo for the first time and no relatives living nearby, this could give both her and your family some peace of mind. It would be more reliable than depending on neighbors for assistance. It would also let everyone see how such an aide works out for her. Granted it might not be cheap, but that doesn’t sound like a major issue for this family. Then when MIL is back in her house, everyone would be used to such an arrangement and perhaps less likely to challenge it in the future.
The Parents Helping Parents thread is probably the best place to ask for recommendations for the area of the condo. Maybe you could set it up so that your husband could help interview companies/companions while you’re down moving her in.
A number of years back I had a graduation ceremony from an adult certification program at a major university - just like a real commencement. My FIL was furious that my mother insisted on paying for the celebratory luncheon, which she had arranged. MIL used to give DH checks for the grocery shopping he did for her. Since he kept her books, I think he just never cashed them and she never knew.
My mom would stop asking if we had an agreement and then wouldn’t take her money.
OP, good luck moving your MIL back into her condo! I don’t know where it is, but if it’s in Florida there are a lot more services for seniors there. When I was at my mom’s - a brochure came from a group called Seniors Helping Seniors who run errands for them, take them to appointments, etc.
I am fortunate that my 88 yr old mom is very healthy, active and incredibly independent (my dad died in 2015) but I stuck the brochure in the guest room bureau in case she ever needs it.
I see nothing wrong with MIL reimbursing for monies spent, I see nothing wrong with MIL paying for your tickets to accompany her on a flight if she could not do it alone.
Local DD and I pick up stuff for each other all the time, Costco, etc. If she buys for me, she uses a credit card that I gave her on my account. If I get for her, I ring it separately and I give her the receipt. It’s just what we do, no one is demanding, we just do that so we feel comfortable asking. Last night I picked up $25 in groceries for her and her DH bought pizza for dinner.
We do like to just give them stuff, at times, but we like that to be when we offer, not boring groceries
My parents always preferred to reimburse us and eventually we set up banking arrangements to ease that. Now, when my mother goes to visit a sibling, I transfer money to them to pay for them buying her food, because she can afford it, because her stay is at some level an inconvenience, so why not at least have it not cost anything to the host. For my sister who takes her to some appointments, I suggest a tank of gas be offered. I think it makes my mother feel good to offer that.
I don’t really think the issue of whether or not the MIL and OP had an “agreement” – or whether she had an “agreement” with her husband – is relevant – except it is just one more example of an apparent generalized misunderstanding between husband and wife about the concept of broad understandings vs. detailed accounting.
I traveled abroad a couple of years ago with a friend and we agreed beforehand to split all costs evenly and to track the costs with an online app – but that didn’t mean that we were accounting for every cup of coffee or bakery item purchased along the way. It ended up that we managed to keep track of whatever was charged to a credit card, and pretty much lost track of all the little cash purchases, where we would just generally ball-parked and considered it even.
When the husband waived off the $10, there was no reason to assume that he meant to veto the general understanding that the mom would pay for her groceries – it was just him being nice that one day. Maybe he’s going to be nice on other days too, but there is no suggestion that he told his mom or wife that he expected to abrogate the general agreement that she would pay for her groceries -the fact that he is accepting the mother’s reimbursement of air fare is evidence that he is perfectly willing to see her pay her fair share.
But in a lot of families the idea of accounting financially for very small expenditure does seem very petty and embarrassing. So I would never do what @somemom describes with her daughter – with my kids I just keep a loose accounting in my head and let them pick up the tab sometimes, and then pick up the tab for everyone at other times - and figure it all comes out roughly even in the end.
I can understand the difference in points of view. I certainly have been around people who feel a need to account for every penny, literally. But that just isn’t my personal experience with family and friends. To me it is simply appropriate to interpret an agreement that one person will reimburse family members for their expenses to have an implied understanding that it applies to major or significant purchases, not to every last cup of coffee or donut. Obviously the OP had a different understanding— but that doesn’t mean that the husband is somehow to be faulted for applying a more liberal interpretation to an intra-family "agreement’.
If this is a continuing issue between OP and her husband, maybe this is the sort of thing where both would benefit from marital counseling-- because disagreements over money are the most common source of marital discord, and it definitely seems in this case that the OP and her husband have very different styles and attitudes when it comes to handling money and financial decisions.
Not greedy, but also not clear H is reneging on the agreement. He may have just thought the $10 was so minimal that it made him feel “cheap” to take it from his mom. That might not be the case for the weekly $100 or so you may actually be spending to do her grocery shopping. I did grocery shopping for my parents for years and they paid me back for it. I made dinners for them on weekends or had them to my house and did not have them pay for the costs of those dinners. The issue of taking care of parents can be very challenging and cause conflict among adult siblings as well as husband and wife.
You make it sound as if I’m sitting around counting every penny I/we spend on her existence, which is really not the case. Perhaps you missed that on Tuesday I went shopping and bought stuff to make dinner (which we all ate). The things she paid me for were the things she requested in a list she texted to me - not the dinner itself. The previous week, I did the same thing and threw in a small bouquet of flowers to brighten up her kitchen - on my bill, not hers, since she didn’t request flowers.
It surprises me that some of you apparently have relatives who would think nothing of asking you to pick up items for them, fill their tank, or whatever and then not offer to pay for it. So they expect you to do their chores AND pay for them. I would hope that I would never do that to anyone, family or not.
I’d cut your H and even the MiL some slack for a few weeks/months because of their grieving. My H did and said some pretty outrageous stuff when his folks died. He is an only child and I am his closest confidante. I was pretty shocked and surprised, but rolled with it. He never apologized in words, but his actions after he would say something crazy showed his regret. (We have different temperaments. I am cool and he is hot. He will get mad and blow up while I will simmer and stew or even distance myself from a problem emotionally.)
Maybe I missed it, but what is your relationship with MiL? I think you are doing some kind things for her, but you also sound put upon. I can relate to that as well. When my FiL died, I was in danger of getting stuck with MiL, someone who I had never been close to. She was prickly, unpredictable, and difficult. I wanted to help her and felt compassion toward her, but I didn’t want to be responsible for her, nor did I want to pull her deeper into our lives. I let her and H have a period of grieving when the boundaries were lax, but then started establishing rules. H had to be in charge of her. It does make me sad in retrospect that I couldn’t have done more for a lonely, old lady, but this old lady was mean spirited and manipulative.
But I thought your MIL did in fact pay – and you took the money -and and you were irked at your husband because he tried to waive it off-- at least that’s what you wrote happened in your original post.
Sylvan, we only know what we read and then, as often on a forum, relate to what was written. We dont even know how “recent” the loss was.
As Lizardly notes, this is a tough period. Grieving is rarely simple and most of us have limited experience with it. There’s no magic off button, the holiday months can be worse, even after some time. Things aren’t always rational.
Imo, you could easily revisit this and other money things in a few months. For now, support in the ways that you can. The flowers were a lovely gesture, as is dinner.
) H and I take care of her finances. I have automated almost all of her payments and I’m on her bank/investment accounts. He does her taxes. She has a TD Ameritrade “mad money” account which she monitors and decides what to buy and sell, but she calls me up to place the orders for her.