It matters for some elitist employers (who implicitly care a lot about your high school achievements and whatever else that got you into a super-selective college) more than others.
I think this is also so industry specific. We’ve stated it here so many times. There are industries, like IB where the pedigree counts tremendously. A kid with a B average from Wharton might have a much better shot then the kid with straight A’s from Brooklyn College. However, in other arenas, the A’s from Brooklyn College will far outshine the B from an IVY. None of this means where you go to college doesn’t matter. In fact, just the opposite. If you want a field where your GPA is going to matter, go to the school where you have the best shot at that high GPA. Maybe that means a lower tier school where you are in the top of the class. If you need the pedigree, it matters if you can’t afford the tippy top or can’t gain admission. Its not decisive, but it matters. If you need internships, a portfolio, or a work record, go to the school where you can most easily get that. If you want to work in TV or media production, you are probably better off at a decent school near a large urban hub with lots of activity then at a very prestigious school in the middle of nowhere. So yes, it matters, but probably not they way many people think it does.
@itsgettingreal17 I agree but but your argument supports the position that it does matter what college you attend:
So, if there is less competition what does that say about the college?
Students at MIT (and all colleges I’d think) have the same access to opportunities. The amount and quality of opportunities surely differs by college. Who actually gets the best internships etc, is a matter of their capabilities, desire, and persistence.
What I find interesting is, from the tone of this and many similar threads, is that many of us feel the same thing and apply it to different levels. What do I mean?
Well this thread seems to fixate on elite private vs state school. With one side saying the elites are better provide more opportunity, etc. The other side saying you can do just as well at state flagship.
When you talk to the state flagship crew, they actually feel the same way about the lower state schools (pecking order). “Go to UF, it’s way better than FGCU” . “UCB is way better than Chico St”. Funny, the reasons why they are considered better are many of the same reasons the elite privates are considered better.
I’m sure Chico St (my wife actually went there. That’s why I know about it.) folks think that level of school is way better than the CC (and it is).
Bottom line, no school assures success and no school prevents success. The driven will succeed one way or another. I think we all know that. It’s not about that. It’s about creating opportunities. As you move up the ladder, there tend to be more or different opportunities. I’m sure everyone wants the best for their kids and does the best they can for them. Some that means elite private, some that means CC. You do what you can do, but let’s not kid ourselves and think there aren’t advantages at the next rung. If that were the case, and it’s all the same, why would anybody care where they went to school?
@rickle1 That seems like a great summation to this threat.
@rickle1 The difference between elite privates and state schools is usually cost. That’s far less the case between state flagships and state directional schools.
Using UF and FGCU as an example, both schools charge about the same tuition and fees, while UF has far more resources (better student to faculty ratio, better facilities, etc.). The only reason to select FGCU would be due to a large merit scholarship (UF offers better need based aid!), or because you can’t afford to live away from home, and need to attend a local school.
^^^cost aside, the hypothesis of the thread is “It doesn’t matter where you go to college”. You state good reasons why someone would want to attend UF vs FGCU. Many of those same reasons are why someone would want to attend a private vs state flagship. Same reasons why someone would want to attend an Ivy instead of a great private.
Let’s look at an example using your info. This may not be practical but let’s pretend it is. Full ride at FGCU vs full pay at UF. (I say not practical because my guess is that student would qualify for something at UF, but maybe not). Most people would agree that UF is a better school. That doesn’t mean FGCU isn’t a fine place, it just means UF is better.
If one can’t flat out afford it, obviously you go to where you can afford. But if you can, even though one is considerably less expensive (in this extreme example we’re talking 20k/yr), many would still go to UF because it’s better and that matters. Of course that’s just my opinion and I understand others feel differently.
It does matter where you go to college.
You need to find a place you can afford. One where you have a reasonable expectation of academic success. One where you’ll find other like minded kids. One where you will want to live for four years. One where your parents are reasonably comfortable with your safety.
For my kids, that’s pretty much the list.
“There will be no agreement on this, but I think there is some influence. If a hiring manager has four resumes to choose from for one f2f interview for an entry level SW design job which will he choose? Lets say that resumes are all new graduates with degrees as follows: S.B in computer Science and Engineering from MIT, B.S. in computer science from New Mexico Tech, an A.S. in computer science from Mesa Community College, and a graduate of multiple Le Wagon Coding Bootcamps. Who get’s the invite?” @Rivet2000
As someone who has hired it tech, those without a bachelor would not be considered for the same jobs as those with a bachelor. People with AS and coding bootcamps are not necessarily well equipped to design unless they have specific experience and it would need to be extensive. However, both the other applicants would be considered. Especially given the person from New Mexico tech has a BS. BS applicants from rigorous public programs were consistent favorites. Both would get an interview. If you had a BA in CS from almost anywhere, your consideration would be different as well. Might depend on the hiring manager’s background. If he/she were a product of work your way through a public program by the bootstraps, that might color their preferences too if they were making a fast judgement with a stack of resumes.
Right! So much depends on the personal experience of the recruiter. Did he or she graduate from a public university? An LAC? Maybe he went to Harvard, but his daughter, a legacy, is rejected and is going to Fordham. Suddenly he has a new appreciation for kids at a different tier of school. I guess that is happening more and more often these days. These boards seem to be filled with disgruntled alums!
Why would a BA versus BS in CS matter, unless one were specifically looking at the specific university’s course work behind the BA and BS degrees if it offers both?
People are using “it matters” in different ways. It matters in the sense that a school should be a good fit. But it doesn’t matter in the sense many think, ie, an elite school is required for success, is better for everyone, or is the only path to a given career.
@MusakParent You’ll find many people on these threads who have extensive tech hiring experience (myself included). My example was which would be the “one” to be called for f2f (the assumption is that only one would be called). My opinion is that more times than not , the MIT candidate would be called. That makes perfect sense. All other scenarios usually start off with qualifier like “Might depend on the hiring manager’s background”. While that may indeed happen sometimes, I’d wager that the vast majority of managers would lean MIT.
“Why would a BA versus BS in CS matter, unless one were specifically looking at the specific university’s course work behind the BA and BS degrees if it offers both?” @ucbalumnus
BS holders almost always have much more technically rigorous course work and requirements. I’m talking about fast judgements here. I worked in a couple fortune 500 software companies, my spouse is still hiring and working in one.
New grads BA’s tended to be hired for jobs with less deep tech. Maybe they’d start in QA and if they showed they could debug code they might eventually get moved over to development.
Whenever these arguments come up I look at the end points (or at least a couple of standard deviations) of the Bell curve (in this case for universities). One end of the Bell curve would be a small CC (which has no admission standards) or a for profit college, the other end will be, for example, Harvard. No one in there right mind can say that that graduating from a small CC vs Harvard “doesn’t matter”. Its ludicrous. However once you move inside a standard deviation on the bell curve to middle of the road universities then it makes little or no difference (you can usually read that as large public universities).
“, I’d wager that the vast majority of managers would lean MIT.”
Well, I wouldn’t say that’s a given in the Midwest especially if the name of the school was the only substantial difference in the resume, but I wouldn’t be surprised if in other parts of the country the feeling about that may be different.
Is there a noticeable difference between BS and BA graduates at the same school here?
BS degree: https://career.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/pdf/Survey/2017EECS.pdf
BA degree: https://career.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/pdf/Survey/2017CompSci.pdf
@MusakParent Your generalizing too much Princeton engineering, for example, all graduate with BA’s and your telling me that is less rigorous???
I don’t think that Berkeley into is very telling. Where I worked, almost everyone working on the development side had the title software engineer but they would be doing a wide variety of things. I’m not making a judgment on BA holders over all or their technical skills. I thought we were talking about flash judgment for a software design job made about a stack of resumes. I know nothing about the program at Berkeley. I know more specifics about east coast and mid west programs off the top of my head.
I have had CS BA’s with pretty weak technical skills from some fairly high ranked LAC’s that ended up doing customer liaison work or technical writing. Their people and communication skills were great though and they were still high wage earners. They were valuable team members.
But that is more of a reflection of a college with a relatively weak CS major, rather than the name of the degree being BA versus BS.
Princeton engineering degrees are titled BSE, but Princeton CS (which is not under engineering there) degrees are titled AB (Latin version of BA).