It’s Time to Tell Your Kids It Doesn’t Matter Where They Go To College

Parents Forum
221

Ha - no I’m not generalizing about Princeton engineering? How did we get here?

The original point is that you should always assume your resume will come after someone from MIT if you graduated from New Mexico Tech. But it’s not ok for a hiring manager to prefer a degree out of a technical program with a BS or BE rather than a BA? Well, I can tell you it can become a quick filtering point for companies doing hiring in tech at times. I’m not making personal judgments. I’m talking about quick decision making and how the background of your hiring team and their world view might make a difference and how the name of your college might not always be the most important thing on your resume. The most consistently great and well prepared grads I’ve worked with in software engineering came from 2 large state competitive tech programs.

222

@NEPatsGirl - so if I was working 60-80 hr a week making 500K then I am a bad parent, but if I was making minimum wage then I am parent of the year? I worked 60+ hrs a week while my kids were growing up, and I was at every dance recital and parent/teacher conference. There were things I missed, and they had full time nanny who bathed them, fed them and did their laundry, but I was probably just as involved if not more than many parents. In turn, my girls grew up in a very comfortable home, they traveled around the world (with me), and they had the option of going to any college they wanted. So, I wouldn’t go around poo-pooing on hard working parents who are able to make a comfortable living.

D1 is making a very good salary now with long hours. I told her to never stop working even when she has kids. It is better she finds a balance between work and family then to give up her career completely.

Life is all about choices. There is no way to have it all. You just need to be happy with your choices.

223

“There will be no agreement on this, but I think there is some influence. If a hiring manager has four resumes to choose from for one f2f interview for an entry level SW design job which will he choose? Lets say that resumes are all new graduates with degrees as follows: S.B in computer Science and Engineering from MIT, B.S. in computer science from New Mexico Tech, an A.S. in computer science from Mesa Community College, and a graduate of multiple Le Wagon Coding Bootcamps. Who get’s the invite?”

The MIT grad would get the invite, no doubt, but that’s not the point of the studies. They conclude that 5 or 10 years down the road the MIT grad wouldn’t make much more than the NM Tech grad. Remember the MIT grad may not do well in the interview (has happened, trust me on this), so then NM Tech grad comes off as not only good but someone that people want to work with. That person gets the job. I get the feeling that they put up with a lot of “stuff” in IB and consulting because they went to an elite school. In high tech, you have to have some amount of interpersonal skills.

224

@oldfort. Amen and ditto.

225

@NEPatsGirl when my kids were little, college was the last thing on my mind. Yes… they played puff soccer in kindergarten and made the All Stars softball team in 3rd grade. Yes… one took art lessons while the other decided to take up singing. College was the furthest thing on my mind. What was on my mind? Having children participate in activities that were of interest to them and allowing them some time to socialize and make new friends. As they got older they gravitated towards activities that were of interest to them, with no pushing or suggestions from me… at all. I was always of the belief that my kids needed to run their own race, and the right schools would accept them. I knew somebody who prepped her kids for Ivy League schools beginning at the age of 4.

I have a lot of respect for mothers who choose not to work outside the home. It’s a tough job with many expectations and is often thankless. That being said, I always worked. Did I work to put food on the table or to pay the rent? No, I did not. Did my income help provide for some extra opportunities that we may not have otherwise afforded? Absolutely… and for me it was the right decision. For me, it was important that my kids see me working outside the home. Was this easy? No… my house was a mess and dinner was often difficult and required careful planning. Neither choice is easy, and neither is right or wrong. I did attend all of their games, volunteer at school ( you have to be creative), attend all conferences, and remain very active and involved in academics.

As was mentioned above, life is about choices and we do what works for us.

226

It does matter where you go…the four or so years spent at university will be an indelible part of who you become as an adult. I am not talking about what job you get, or what opportunities you have post graduation. I am talking about the impact it will have on your psyche. So choose wisely.

227

This article demonstrates that cost is driving where a large number of top students attend and states are noticing.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-met-illinois-students-brain-drain-20180405-story.html

228

^^^^ This should be a topic for another thred! (If I were a resident of Alabama I’d want an explanation, in detail, why my tax dollars are going to subsidize so many OOS students.)

229

Just go to the best school for you in your circumstance which you can afford. It’s not science but it’s not hard. If you get rejected by a school A, then that was not the best school for you. Not meant to be. No need to be envious or pity anyone for going to the school they are going. When I was a young guy, I wanted to marry a beautiful actress but didn’t happen. You weren’t born with Bill Gates as your father. So what. You do best with what you can afford.

230

The reason I posted the link in this thread is bc those families recognized that where their students attended was not a career limiting decision. These top competitive kids do not dwell in CC’s bubble. There are huge numbers of them out there on avg campuses finding their “equals” in peers who are also attending. They are succeeding on those campuses and moving on to successful careers in equally large numbers.

231

No I mean it should be the topic of another thred because brain drain is an interesting topic.

232

@labegg

I think, in reality, it’s just the opposite. It’s out of state students who are subsidizing admitted Alabamians. If you are referring specifically to OOS scholarship recipients, according to the article, their average non-tuition costs exceed tuition for in-state students, so even they are subsidizing Alabamians.

ETA: There is a separate thread on the topic in the Alabama forum.

233

A broader perspective is needed to answer this question properly. Let’s look at some possible timelines:

  1. To an 18 year old high school graduate, it sometimes “matters” to them to have a trophy to show their peers that they worked hard and got into a high or higher ranked school than their peers. It may seem unimportant, but it is one reason it may matter as a senior in high school.

2)During the four (or more) years at X,Y, or Z college, what really matters is how students can connect with professors and gain internships or opportunities for research. Arguably the smaller LAC or elite college with a smaller student body may have an advantage, but the student must still take the initiative to go to office hours or seek out opportunities. Some Honors programs at large state universities will help make a large university much smaller and provide support that students may not have at “elite” colleges. What matters more than anything now, rather than what school it is, is how hard a student keeps on working to learn and grow academically and socially both in and out of the classroom.

3)Upon graduation, is it possible that having a degree from a particular name school may have an impact on getting an interview or in the door? Possibly. But there are stories of Ivy or otherwise “elite college” students who got in the door but were let go for less than stellar performance. Many recruiters prefer to hire top business students from Indiana Kelley Business school, for example, because of a perceived strong work ethic, as compared with some other better known schools where some (not all) students may have a stereotype of feeling entitled. There are opportunities for accomplished students from an array of colleges. Yes, there may be some niches where Wall Street, for example, may prefer certain Ivy league schools or particular majors, but that is a microcosm of the economy and workplace. Ultimately, the student who is accomplished and has strong communication skills will find a way to success, regardless of where they went to school.

4)If one’s career leads to grad school, most recruiters are focused more on what you have done lately than where you went to undergraduate school. Some may be initially impressed if they notice you went to a top undergraduate school, but by and large, it’s your recent accomplishments, research, graduate degree, and work experience that “matter” more.

5)In changing jobs down a career path, which most will do several times in today’s economy, the focus will be less on the school one attended “that matters” and more on work experience. Of course there may be some exceptions to the rule. Not taking anything away from those Stanford Engineers!

So there you have it, a broader view of how “where you went to school may matter at times more than others, when it maymatter less, or not at all” across time.

234

If a large alumni network is an important benefit of college, I wonder if that speaks in favor of a large, potentially lower ranked university (state or private), over a tiny but very elite college like Pomona?

235

@Mom2aphysicsgeek I read the article and would like to share my observations as a resident of the area from which this article refers. Many families in our area have experienced the unwelcome surprise that our California peers are talking about in this thread. http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/2070343-californian-parents-justified-feeling-bitter-their-kids-are-shutout-of-the-uc-system-p1.html Parents in our fairly affluent area assumed UIUC would be a good financial and academic fit for their kids. Their children are bright and prepared for college, but lack stellar grades and test scores. But over the last 5-10 years, families have learned that the acceptance rate of popular majors - CS, engineering and business - is much lower than their expectations. To complicate matters our directionals are under-funded and lack academic recognition. So many families were/are forced to look elsewhere.

In our area these families were initially excited when they could go cheaper or relatively equivalent to in-state cost at Mizzou, Ohio State, Iowa, et al. But now that many of those graduates don’t find employment in the Chicago-area, the stress is escalating. In general it seems like this disappointment has translated into bitterness, which is sad to me. There isn’t open hostility, but you hear things that make one pause and reflect.

So while I agree with the sentiment in the article, “seek the best education at the best value”, I believe the problem with ‘it doesn’t matter where they go to college’ is it disregards desired, specific outcomes.

As an aside, three questions popped into my head after reading the link in #226 . 1. How do Alabama residents feel about 203 full tuition scholarships out of 305 are going to Illinoisans? (labegg). 2. Are these students staying in Alabama or the general area post-graduation? 3. Will students want to apply/attend Alabama if the free tuition/high merit dollars were to decrease dramatically?

To me a true ‘brain drain’ would occur if these college educated folk never return to their ‘home’ state post-graduation or are not replaced with other college educated people. Only time will tell, since many may take a first job in the region, but with the intention/hope of moving back at some point.

236

@88jm19

That is a very disturbing trend. Do you think they fail to find employment because their degrees are not recognized? Does it vary by major?

237

Some say “where you went to college only matters for your first job” but that first job (or internship) might be VERY important at the start of your career.

238

@gallentjill I’m not sure. I’m not involved with hiring so I can’t say if employers aren’t recognizing the value of degrees from these schools.

I can say that most of the ‘success’ stories were from parents of girls majoring in nursing or something similar. The disappointed graduates (not all) have majored in business, engineering, English, journalism…you name it.

The post-graduation jobs they had hoped for ran the gamut from sports management and music therapy to engineering. Specific location/employment opportunities didn’t materialize. Some did not understand that the quantity of say, engineering jobs, is limited in the Chicago area when you have Northwestern and UIUC graduates. They envisioned living in our general area, not in Indiana, Ohio or Iowa. So it’s less that they can’t find employment. It’s more that they have to compromise on compensation, location and/or the actual job. Unfortunately the veiled hostility I hear is the “unfairness” for their predicament and less about accountability for their decision-making.

239

@88jm19 I think those are really important considerations which, honestly, I hadn’t considered. I have great compassion for a kid who worked hard all through high school, then accepted, with good grace, the idea that they were going to have to make compromises about college and worked hard to get a good education and when finally had the degree found that there were no opportunities in their home area. Of course, this is the human condition. People have always had to travel great distances for better opportunities, but it is highly disappointing. My Grandfather left his family and came over form Europe when he was thirteen years old. He made a good life for himself, but that doesn’t mean he was happy about leaving his home and family.

240

@88jm19
“But over the last 5-10 years, families have learned that the acceptance rate of popular majors - CS, engineering and business - is much lower than their expectations. To complicate matters our directionals are under-funded and lack academic recognition. So many families were/are forced to look elsewhere.”

Like many other public U’s, UIUC has funding problems. To fix that they have to identify what they have to offer that is valued by out of state and international students. The answer is that they will pay full price for places in its CS, engineering, and business programs. So, UIUC has had to disproportionately allocate those programs to OOS and international students. Even for in-state students who do get in, UIUC does things that make attending unattractive. For example, UIUC does not allow students to easily change from one major to another within engineering. If you want to change, you will have to apply.

In Illinois, the problem is compounded because there is only one public U with a strong national, regional or even in-state reputation. The result is an exodus of a very high percentage of top students from Illinois. This is expensive for parents, and in the long run, it’s bad for the state because a many of those students will stay in or near the state where they attend college. Once families decide they need to leave the state, they want to find the best education for their money, so they try to get admitted to highly ranked schools, or schools that offer them a deal.

The state universities continue to struggle with funding, while the top private schools have been able to raise huge amounts for their endowments. The impact is that the resource gap between private and public schools continues to widen.

The impacts

  1. More students all over the country attending OOS public and private colleges.
  2. There are now no public universities that are ranked in the top 20.
  3. The winners, in the long run, will most likely be the states with more places available at better schools. They can retain top in-state students and also attract good students from states like Illinois. Some of those students will stay.
  4. Illinois is screwed, and the exodus will continue.