They can use Common App Courses and Grades, or SRAR, or create their own internal system like UIUC and the UCs to calculate GPA in the same way for all applicants…no extra staff needed because the onus is on the applicant to input courses and grades exactly how a given school wants this info. This has always been an option for Kelley admissions, and they have chosen not to do that.
The way their system works now, with a relatively low GPA requirement (3.8 weighted if on transcript etc) plus a test score of 30/1370, it advantages relatively affluent males (affluent males are more likely than females to have discrepant GPAs and test scores. No shade to male students, as there is plenty of data showing the entire K-12 experience disadvantages them. There are race differences in this data too, but we can’t talk about that here.) Anywhoo, IU Kelley has affluent males in abundance, no surprise.
As I’ve said before, students in the 3rd quartile (based on wGPA) of my kids’ large affluent highly rated HS regularly qualify for DA because many of these students with a below median wGPA achieve the required DA test score. There is not rampant grade inflation at this school.
I mean that is part of the ADA / DA Review appeal for IU/Kelley and DA at other T10/T20/25 B Schools in general right? Win and you’re in, as opposed the process of having to get into the University as a general admit, and then having to ‘apply’ to get into the B-School after 1-2-3 semesters with the risk you may not get in. And the risk increases if the number of students already admitted (DA etc) is a high percentage of the total BSchool class size (low number of ‘at large’ seats available).
It’s not about direct admission vs. standard admission.
It’s not about how hard or easy it is to get in.
It’s not about whether the cohort size is small or large.
It’s about having a sensible, transparent, and empathetic admissions process.
Kelley’s auto direct admit criteria are nonsensical.
Kelley’s standard admission criteria are just as flawed.
You can keep saying that Kelley doesn’t care, and dismiss it as “blah blah blah,” but the reality is—they will be called out for their indifference to a major issue in their admissions process.
I disagree that the process lacks transparency. Kelly clearly outlines the requirements for both direct and standard admissions, though the standard admission criteria could be written more clearly. However, I do agree that changing the standard admission criteria after the acceptance deadline is problematic and would likely prompt me to encourage my child to contact other schools they were admitted to about potentially reversing their decision. My child is attending a different school for a different major, but my younger son is interested in business. I absolutely would not allow him to attend IU unless he is directly admitted to Kelly. Even as a direct admit, I would have reservations given how the school treated this group of students. Honestly, as a standard admit hopeful, I would be feeling like a second-class student at this point
I would think if you have a senior class where the 3rd quartile in featuring weighted GPAs above 3.8 that there is indeed very obvious grade inflation. It defies common sense that 3/4 of the kids get B+s and the step up from APS unless the grading scale allows.
But that is just public education these days. National grade inflation in public schools around the country is a very well documented concept in both poor and rich schools. The ACT board points out constantly that the average national GPA has risen consistently with no corresponding improvement in standardized test scores.
It’s really all in the weighted grading system. There are several levels of honors and APs at this school, many of which add greater than +1 to the weighted GPA. Average grades have increased somewhat over the last decade, but it’s a rigorous school which is why a number of students with a B average (not B+ average) unweighted GPA score 30+/1370+ on their ACT/SAT. Median wGPA is around 4.2, so those in the 3rd quartile can easily meet the 3.8 wGPA for that part of the Kelley admit criteria (the unweighted GPA for many of the 3rd quartile students would be closer to 3.0 than 3.3).
Government entities and non-profit organizations still have to manage themselves in many business aspects. Those that are universities typically need to deal with finance, accounting, marketing, customer and stakeholder relationships, employee relations, etc..
Yes, this change to standard/secondary admission criteria could have negative marketing implications.
Of course. But by being a nonprofit and an institution that receives funding to educate students etc, they should (in theory) more closely align with their mission statement and/or purpose to do so versus prioritizing stakeholders (as a business would). There is a difference but it is grey and incredibly complex. My point is that to suggest Kelley is going to operate in “xzy manner” bc at the end of the day it is a “business” is disappointing and off base in my opinion. My kids have the rest of their lives to work. And while we absolutely want their higher education experiences to prepare them for their careers, it would seem that some of these business school environments are veering a little too far away from the typical college environment. But that’s just me and my opinion. As someone who worked in IB, perhaps I just want these kids to stay kids a little longer and have an environment that isn’t unnecessarily competitive. Wishful thinking!!!
All this tells me is the school needs tougher criteria for honors classes or just better gating to keep kids out. Honors and AP should not be a backdoor to inflate weighted GPAs.
Could and should Kelley have announced this prior to May 1? Unequivocally yes. It was probably driven in its immediacy however on what they learned as of May 1. Perpetuate the space issue one more year vs negative outflow of decision? School enrolled around 10k+ this year and is trending plus 1,000 every year for the next 3 years toward 14k by the time the class of 2028 are seniors.
A sensible admission process? Unequivocally no. It’s not built for what the reality is today and that reality took hold in 2022. It is built for a system to drive in students when Kelley had space for 10k and was operating at 7k - only 8 years ago. As Kelley was trending up in enrollment, Covid hit and trends went down. From 2022-Today trend has exploded. While we care about our kids now, it’s not realistic for a College to completely shift over a 3 year period. The fallout of these apps exploding the last 3 years have been the “petitions” which went from the 60% approval rate to closer to 20%. And a lot of students not petitioning at all and just preferring the B grading SA route - which goes back to the immediacy issue.
Is Kelley empathetic? Unequivocally no. Its comms are particularly poor and while that’s relatively normal for a big public it’s not awesome. There’s also a much higher standard of student applying now who is sometimes more focused on I should be wanted in a system that’s built for different applicants.
If you are auto-DA most people are happy with Kelley process and comms. The path of hope causes most of the critique and as the overall student standard is increasing you are getting more is this really that exclusive if a W3.8 gets admitted and in a school that incessantly markets - is this a cult or real?
Every college wants to perpetuate the exclusivity of admission as its ultimate goal. If Kelley believes the app trends are real - they’ll raise the auto-DA and eventually get rid of petitions entirely as next steps. If they can receive 40-50k apps like Ross or Stern do they’ll get to “holistic” because their ranking will only go up at that point. We’re in a transition period for Kelley with an enrollment cliff upcoming.
High schools have an incentive to inflate GPA weighting when some universities like IU take weighted GPA from high school transcripts at face value. It is not surprising that high schools respond to incentives that universities put out.
Keeping students out of honors and AP courses should only be to keep out students who will have difficulty in them*, not to limit them to only the most elite students in the school.
*“Have difficulty” does not mean getting an A- or B in the course. It means barely able or not able to earn a C in the course.
High schools are facing a choice of getting rid of “Honors” classes because they perpetuate the student gap in a school - you’ll have the same kids continue to achieve and a tough path for someone who may have been a late bloomer academically or went to a less stringent or resourced middle school. Then the AP board is trying to stop kids taking more than 2 APs a year based on their studies that the scores overall go up when a student is only taking 2 versus multiple. This is all balanced by parents who believe their child will be disadvantaged if they are not in these classes from a perceive rigor or AP score/credit in application to colleges. I don’t think many high schools are doing this for kids having weighted GPAs - most high schools know that a school has an area rep who knows their high school whether they had any APs or honors.
At the private school our kids went to the administrators were definitely gating up honors classes. Kids had to apply for the course and take school designed eligibility exams specific to the classes and even then the department heads would review and often reject kids.
That seems right to me. A lack of barriers to honors class participation coupled with a lack of incremental rigor that facilitates average to below average students bucking up their GPA dilutes or invalidates the very concept of a honors course. It should be earned and not handed out.
AP is AP . . it should be open to whoever.
All just my opinion of course but it gets back to the devices high schools use to inflate GPAs.
Some high schools have a more transparent method, something like B in previous or prerequisite honors course or A in previous or prerequisite non-honors course.
And here in lies the idea that when you have a holistic process, you can more easily account for these differences. It’s so hard and there is not one right answer. Based on the comments above, it would seem Kelley will eventually go more holistic like Ross. My kids go to a large public outside of Boston. MA has the highest AP pass rate in the U.S. Their school uses UW gpa where an A- is a 3.7, does not rank
and essentially limits students to APs to the junior and senior year. They place about 12-15 in ivies per year. Many more to T20. Their school has a 93% AP pass rate with over 80% achieving a 4 or 5. These teachers are teaching for 4/5 and it is hard and often leads to grade deflation. My senior often studied until 2am for APUSH, got a 5 but A- in the class.
I don’t think getting Bs in high honors and/or AP courses means kids should be kept out of those classes…there’s no shame in a B. No reason for these students to not challenge themselves. Clearly they are learning, because this HS has a high SAT/ACT test score average.
My kids’ HS does this, and has pre-reqs/grade requirements to increase rigor.
I hope so . . . .folks are rather miffed here in Texas at the A&M admission policy as it is beholden to the Top 10% rule. The legislature allows auto-admit to either University of Texas or Texas A&M based on class rank. The rub is that this equates the lowliest single A high school in the poorest parts of the state to the most rigorous and competitive public and private high schools. Texas has worked to blunt the impact of this policy as it has historically lead to a huge churn rate where kids come in and promptly drop out and go home. A&M not so much . . .it is a first come first served process for the Mays school which fills up super quick . .in a matter of weeks really. A whole ocean of talented kids get cut out of the process for the reasons you highlight.
My son had the exact same APUSH experience . . .the teacher was a Dartmouth PhD and told us she teaches so the kid can be the most competitive college level history student and she really doesn’t care about the grade they achieve as part of the process. It was a huge grind and only two kids achieved As in the class while many got Cs. I am sure they are light years ahead of other kids taking much more half-assed classes but it does not help them through purely quantitative and crude application metrics.
That is not what what I was saying. I am saying kids get into honors courses despite not showing any above average skill or proficiency in the subject and are able to earn low Bs as the incremental rigor of the supposed honors course is only minimal. All that does is allow a GPA booster.