No offense to your nephew, but I was expecting to see a much higher SAT based on his expectations, etc. Likely, Duke would not accept him, unless his W score was lowish, meaning that his M+CR was unusually high for that total.
If he’s close to getting 5.5 merit from Rutgers, wouldn’t that mean that his M+Cr is known?
As for a big school (duke) vs a bigger school (rutgers or elsewhere), I’m not sure that a student would really feel the difference. Big schools tend to be laid out logically with building clusters according to college/type. For instance, all the STEM courses may be taught in building that in the NE corner of the campus. The student may find that he never steps foot onto other areas of the school.
S will probably feel better once he realizes that he’s not alone. Friend’s D was deeply upset when she was told that it was the local State U (honors program) and that was it. She had no other options because that’s what they could afford. All her friends were applying to nationally known ‘brand name’ schools - and she was furious at the injustice of it. Funny thing though…come April, and the arrival of financial aid packages, and low and behold, many of the kids didn’t get into the dream school and those who did, couldn’t afford to go. They all ended up in the honors program at State U with friend’s D. Needless to say, she is feeling less hard done by these days. Got a great education there by the way and is in a prestigious Phd program at one of the brand name schools.
Thanks again all. @mom2collegekids, I’m confused about your question. The $5,500 would be a Stafford loan, not merit…but I don’t understand what you mean by “wouldn’t that mean his M+Cr is known?” I may have his SAT wrong - will double check in the morning. Yes, Duke could have been a long shot…but I guess the point is that there are also other schools he can no longer consider and they are generally thinking that he will need to go to the in-state public.
@Yankees009 - that’s the point of this whole thread. He knows he can’t go there based on his parents’ income.
I never understand the argument that going to a state school is ‘High School 2.0.’ Even if half a graduating class of 500 heads to the flagship (which I think is fairly unrealistic anyway), those 250 kids are a drop in the bucket at the big flagship’s freshman class of 2500-5000. Of those 250, how many did the student really know? Fifty? One Hundred? How many would it be a problem seeing a few times a week? How many kids from NJ are planning on Duke? I bet more than a few, maybe even from nephew’s same high school. I bet if someone was looking for a school that wasn’t ‘high school 2.0’ but found out 50 other kids from his high school, club soccer team, middle school boy scout troop were also going, that wouldn’t be a problem at all if Princeton offered a slot, or Duke, or NYU.
My daughter was disappointed to learn a girl she didn’t particularly gel with from her club team accepted a scholarship from the school she was looking at and for a few minutes she was disappointed, but I said she didn’t have to room with her and it would be fine. We weren’t talking just two out of 900 freshmen, but two out of the 9 on the team, so not possible to avoid her. It’s been better than fine and they get along great, better than when they were in high school. My nephew goes to the flagship and does have hundreds friends from high school (and clubs, neighborhood pool swim team, girls he dated, etc.) He loves having that group of friends, loves seeing friends every day.
I think Duke was a long shot for OP’s nephew anyway, whether the parents could pay or not. I know a lot of kids with stats like that who were rejected, and with better geographic diversity than NJ. He has a lot of other options, but they are going to slip by if he refuses to see the opportunities. It is not Duke or community college. It is not duke or nothing. Yes, Delaware gives OOS scholarships but if he doesn’t even look he won’t know. And if he’s smart enough for Duke, he should have been smart enough to know that there was no money coming in for the last few years and the family just can’t afford expensive purchases right now. His stats are good, but there are thousands of kids with those stats and a whole bunch of them want to go to Duke and can’t afford it.
@mom2collegekids and @SouthernHope: she’s a just graduated senior. Her ACT was 30 - no coaching at all she just walked in and took it - and I was told her SAT score was equivalent but I don’t know the number. These are good supposed to be good scores, but apparently that just isn’t high enough any more. She also took all of the science and math she could, including calculus and she was especially good in chemistry. She took 2 years of Arabic, and was the best student there both years.
The only college she got into was a private one with exorbitant tuition and what turned out to be very little financial aid. Going there wasn’t a practical option. This was the university of Denver. She didn’t get into the state university here (Illinois), let alone get a scholarship. They don’t even bother to send a rejection notice, you have to call them. They treat you like a nobody and honestly I’m glad she’s not going there. She had also applied to an ivy league school.
I encouraged her to apply in my home state, New Mexico, after all this had happened, but she refused. At least they’d treat her like an actual person there.
Right now she is very discouraged and refuses to even think about college or majors or careers. She has made a vague promise to apply again “next year” but I’d say it’s 50-50 at this point. In her mind she’s gotten a very clear “don’t bother” message from the college admissions offices. For my part, I’m very disappointed, not in her, she’s worked very hard, but that this could even happen. My wife thinks we should just wait. She’s at least making a realistic effort to apply for jobs, so she hasn’t given up completely. What I want to do at this point is to regain my own confidence and do whatever I can to help her regain hers.
First, though it may be hard for these kids to see or care, since education is so geared to grades and college- but all that hard work HAS paid off in learning and skills. It is too bad that education is so focused on getting a result like admission, rather than the material and competencies learned. I think that parents can at least try to emphasize that.
Second, these situations can work out over time, but the parents have to convey more positivity to the kids. I know it’s hard. I’ve been there. But disappointment and shame can be mirrored back by adults in a way that is not helpful. I truly believe there are no disasters. And many of the kids who have these disappointments end up more mature than their apparently more successful peers.
Lost parent, perhaps your daughter could find a class that actually interests her, that can actually engage her without worry about admissions for now.
Ready to Roll, college admission is a strong “external motivator” so now that it is gone, he is feeling like slacking off. What would be an “internal motivator” that could inspire effort again? It might take time, but what is he interested in?
@lostParent, her not getting in to UIUC (even as DGS) is a bit shocking (unless she applied to Engineering or Business, in which case she should have had another safety). The NM schools aren’t very expensive (even for OOS), and McGill would be affordable too (though she’d also be a number there).
There’s also the CC route. Remember, it’s not where you begin but where you end up.
Also, this can be turned in to a learning experience. If she’s going out in to the workforce, she’s going to have to learn to rebound from rejections (shocking or otherwise).
Yes, out-of-state publics do offer merit. It is need-based financial aid that they generally offer insufficient or none of (and some, like those in Pennsylvania, generally offer insufficient financial aid to their in-state students as well).
Yes, it can be a big letdown to get shut out… that shows the importance of starting one’s application list with a safety (assured admission, assured affordability, suitable academics) that one likes.
She can attend the local community college (everyone’s default safety), do well there, and transfer to UIUC or some other university.
@lostparent - Starting at a community college is nothing to be ashamed of. We have lots of CC transfers at my university and they do quite well and end up with the same degree that students starting as Freshmen get. I would advise her to apply to a few more schools just to see what kind of financial aid is out there and to have a choice. The best merit aid is offered at private universities and particularly those that don’t have the highest ranking but are very good options nonetheless.
@lostParent
First of all, like the others I too am surprised that your niece wasn’t accepted to UIUC, unless of course she applied to Computer Science or Engineering. However, with a 3.7 GPA and a 30 ACT I believe your niece has a very good chance to get into Penn State. It’s a major research university with a top 30-ranked Engineering and Business school. What’s more, admissions are rolling and it seems they still have slots, so she can still apply now!! Of course, she could also take a gap half-year or full year and apply for Spring or Fall 2016.
Looking at their COA, Penn State’s COA is about $14K less than U of Denver ($41K vs. $55K, talking about just tuition plus room and board). Yes, they don’t give out a whole lot of merit aid and it’s $15K more that UIUC in-state. But if her parents think they can somehow swing it , IMHO it’s worth a try.
While it is a big school, my experience with my incoming freshman next year is that PSU’s admission has been VERY positive. Communications are clear and on-time, phone calls and emails are answered promptly – it’s a very well-run organization. Sure, in the end being such a big school you may be a “number” but they sure don’t make you feel like it.
OP, like others have said, there may be good merit aid out there…and maybe that could “re-motivate” him. I tell my S it is just as prestigious" to get a big scholarship somewhere as to get into a “top” school…I would be just as proud either way. Maybe look at the thread of scools with good merit aid and see if any interest him. Then try the ACT. so e kids do much better with the ACT style (esp good tome managers/pressure performers, though it is all pressure)!
with a 3.7 and, say a 32/33/34 he gets more options if his parents can pay room and board. Sounds like he just needs motivation. It’s hard to tell a kid he was never getting into Duke, so get real…maybe working toward a scholarship may help,
PS, I know no one is advocating telling him that about Duke;)
@lostParent Have you and your daughter looked through the NACAC list of colleges that still have openings and financial aid available? There are some very good schools on that list, some of which may be affordable. On the other hand, taking a gap year probably will be in her best interest for finding better merit and/or need-based aid. If she chooses the gap year option, she should not take any communiy college classes, so that she will still qualify for freshman status and scholarships. I notice that you are a new member of CC. If you read through the many threads regarding merit aid, you will get many ideas as to which colleges and universities to target.
"My nephew is a very bright, wonderful kid " - the behavor of this kid does not support that he is very bright. However, it does not really matter at this point. If he is very bright (academically) than we must assume that he would qualify for full tuition Merit awards (or close to full tuition) at several places. Many very top HS kids around us (in Midwest), including my D. pursue applying to colleges that would offer them such Merit award. More so that vast majority of these top kids are planning on Grad. school.
After all, the success at college depends much more on a student than the specific place. Yes, it is important that the kid feels “at home” for 4 most important years of his life, However, if he several places that are known for great Merit awards (public and private, IS and OOS) then more likely than not, he will find a good match that will be tuition free (or close) for him.
The “slacking” part is simply not acceptable. I do not know what to do about it. By the time they are about to graduate from HS and go off to college, they must learn how to perform under any circumstances. He may not be at this point, then I would question his maturity. Talent and being bright are NOT the pre-reqs for the academic success at college at all. The ability and drive to work hard under in any condition and under any pressure are the absolute must.
You’re correct. I didn’t intend for this to happen, i just really identified with the original question. Looks like there’s a lot of advice in the replies and I appreciate it. I will read through it and pose a new question detailing our family’s situation (working title: Complete Frustration).
A “couple of weeks ago” was within a month of the end of the school year. This kid might just be checking out because he is waiting impatiently for school to end.
The family has set a budget. Hopefully this student understands that things happen financially in families.
^Are you sure about American? My son would never have gotten into Duke but got a scholarship at American - I believe it was half tuition. They were vaguer about the guidelines then, because he was not a NMF, his SAT scores were very good, but part from perfect and he was in top 10% of class, but missed top 5% by one place.
I totally understand not wanting to go to Rutgers, I know it’s a fine school - a good friend from Caltech teaches there now - but none of my kids wanted to go to any of the SUNY’s and I didn’t want it for them either.