Kid has stopped trying in response to limited college options

Parents Forum
101

Wow, in the space of a few days, some of you guys have turned a great, hardworking kid into a lazy spoiled kid with parents who lied to him…and a father who is pretending to go to work? Where the heck did that come from? None of that could be further from the truth.

My initial question was about how my sister could motivate her son given his now limited choices, not for financial advice for her. They did the best they could. My brother-in-law is making half of what he was before. My sister works. They have another child who is handicapped and must have long-term support; moving her could have been disastrous as she still qualifies for services from the school district and they provide excellent services - other districts not so much. They went through a home equity loan and all of their savings in an effort to stay where they were, and are now left with lots of debt to pay off and a desire to do the best they can for their kids. My nephew actually ranks in the top 15% of his class. His weighted GPA is above a 4.0. Possibly his SAT could be higher if he retook it. He is an Eagle Scout, run the Key Club at his school, and one of the kindest kids I know, which is why it has been hard on my sister that he feels so discouraged.

Again, I’d prefer not to hear about how they have made poor decisions. One of my big gripes about CC are the “But why didn’t you do this?” posts. They are in the situation they are in, so advice on how best to deal with it is most appreciated. Thanks.

102

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with parents who lied to him…and a father who is pretending to go to work?


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If you’re referring to my post, I was just responding to someone else’s post. I didn’t think that the parents in YOUR story actually did that. I saw nothing in the posts that I read that suggested that.

Sometimes when threads are long and mullti-paged, there are some off-topic twists and turns.

I’m sorry if you misunderstood.


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. They have another child who is handicapped and must have long-term support; moving her could have been disastrous as she still qualifies for services from the school district and they provide excellent services - other districts not so much.

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They went through a home equity loan and all of their savings in an effort to stay where they were, and are now left with lots of debt to pay off and a desire to do the best they can for their kids.

My nephew actually ranks in the top 15% of his class. His weighted GPA is above a 4.0.

Possibly his SAT could be higher if he retook it.


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the above is more inline with what many of us “read between the lines.”

The family is not recovered, and likely won’t be for a very long time ~ especially with the much lower salary, the HEL/HELOC, and the younger disabled child.

So, it’s not a good idea that they borrow for this son’s education, and it’s not a good idea that he transfer later.

within top 10% (often top 5%) is typically needed for an unhooked applicant to get into a TOP school, like Duke.

The mentioning that he needs an “attitude adjustment” was a justified remark BASED on the mention that he wasn’t willing to retake the SAT because he doesn’t need to for Rutgers admission…even tho a higher SAT would mean some merit (which the family SORELY needs). So, he is acting a little entitled, bratty, and selfish…and even Eagle Scouts and Key Club chairs can behave like that at times. :wink:

I’m sure he is a great kid…but even great kids can be short-sighted, stubborn, and immature at times.

Since he doesn’t really want Rutgers, then…

Retest for a higher score.

Also, take the ACT

Has the family figured out how much they CAN pay each year? $10k? 15k? more? Since Rutgers costs about $25k-30k per year…were the parents willing to pay THAT much? If not, then even R isn’t affordable.

If the family hasn’t yet figured out how much they CAN pay, then THAT needs to be determined ASAP. I get the feeling that this recovering family will not have an extra $1000-2000 a month to put towards college. Or am I wrong?

If I were you, I would identify at least 3 schools that will FOR SURE award him HUGE merit for his stats and have him apply…those can be his back up choices in case the others don’t work out.

Best wishes.

103

@GossamerWings this kiddo sounds like a fine student, and a great kid. As I said earlier…some kids check out the last couple of weeks of school…they just do.

I’d give him some time to relax and reorient. Then he should make a list of the characteristic he wants in a college…note…not THE school…but the characteristics. In other words, what was it about Duke that he liked? Then start the search for schools with similar qualities where this student might get good merit aid, or where the costs are more affordable for his family now.

As they say…he will grow where he is planted…he just has to find the right place.

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1678964-links-to-popular-threads-on-scholarships-and-lower-cost-colleges.html#latest

Read the links in this thread. Lots of info on scholarships, merit aid, and less costly schools.

104

OP, somebody should explain to your nephew that his thinking is wrong. It is rich students who can afford to slack off.
He has his future in his hands. He should spend this Summer preparing to kill SAT/ACT in the Fall and make sure he is on track to take as many APs as possible.
Good thing his parents had this talk with him now or he might end up like the daughter of this other poster. Obviously he was disappointed but his reaction was rather immature.
At Rutgers high scores will provide him with a Honors program, guaranteed better housing and merit money. If he quits trying he will have crappy or no housing at Rutgers and will have to take out loans. And it will kill any hopes to go to some more “cozy” college.
At this point all high achieving NJ juniors are going to highly ranked pricey private colleges in their dreams. Your nephew hears these conversations daily. Over a thousand of them with SAT better than 2080 will end up at Rutgers and TCNJ.

105

Why are Rutgers and other NJ state universities so despised by NJ resident students?

106

^^
I haven’t seen Rutgers, but some say it’s not very attractive. Is that true? It so, that can be a negative.

It could just be the “it’s in my backyard” reaction.

107

^^^“Born to Run” says it all…"We gotta get out while we’re young
`Cause tramps like us, baby we were born to run "

108

I can only guess - too many well-to-do families (who can pay for this elusive fit!), too many high scoring students, small state with a large number of highly ranked colleges within driving distance. Rutgers New Brunswick is spread out so you may have to use buses between classes plus it has 2 satellite campuses also called Rutgers in Newark and Camden (all 3 cities do not have the best reputation). However this disease is prevalent in Northern NJ while Rutgers NB is in Central Jersey and TCNJ is in South Jersey. North Jersey residents believe that NNJ is really part of Manhattan.

I know some NJ doctors who are happily sending their kids to TCNJ to do pre-med. I also know some parents who sent their kids to Binghamton instead of Rutgers NB (really absurd). NNJ parents with money to burn love paying for UMichigan.

So the main problem with Rutgers NB is that it does not look at all like Princeton but you can get a decent education there and career services are good. Obviously being inside a huge metropolitan area with tons of employment opportunities helps. Joining Big10 should help increase national visibility.

They used to have 90 full rides for NJ residents. Would be interesting to find out the yield for these scholarship offers. 25%?

The rest of NJ colleges attract academically weaker students.

109

Northern NJ is not necessary where the money is in NJ.

110

Ok we can add a few places on the shore, Bernardsville area, etc. Population density is higher in the North.
I can accept that my analysis is highly unscientific.

111

@CCDD14, Binghamton OOS is about 10K more expensive a year than RU-NB in-state, but at $35K, even OOS at Bing is only about as expensive as the more expensive publics for in-state people.

112

Sometimes if there is a disabled child in the family, siblings grow up with pressures that their peers cannot begin to imagine, both from coping with an unusual family life and from being part of “that family” outside of the house. Perhaps I am projecting too much, but I can fully understand why, aside from usual objections to Rutgers for undergrad, this family would want their child to have an opportunity to go further afield for college.

If the goal is to get out of NJ, the next logical step would be to locate opportunities for merit money and re-take SAT’s.
It is my guess that this is temporary mouthing off that will subside in a few weeks as S gets to work and does what he needs to do.

I will concede that there are added complications if the family has been telling him all along that they will pay for the best school that would admit him, and/or the peer culture is not supportive of students who need merit money. Still, it is hard for me to believe that any public school these days does not contain a large cohort of exceptional students whose families cannot afford to be full pay, and who need to find financial as well as academic safeties.

113

There are some excellent state schools that will provide funding for OOS because they are keen to grow their national reputation. I’d not put Binghamton in the excellent category though, not even close. Also, maybe the student can be motivated by the idea that strong credentials could earn him a ticket or at least some funding to schools he’d love. Maybe a trip to some of those schools would help. When they are abstract kids rely on what they hear. But when they visit they start thinking beyond that to envisioning themselves there. Consider Maryland and Virginia for close visits.

114

@lostaccount
Not sure where you live, but I live in New England. Kids from my area…where there are tons of bright kids…plus we live amidst the Ivies…think very highly of Binghamton. The OOS cost of attendance at Bing is just a tad less than the expensive privates. And it’s a fine school, with lots of smart students.

This student might also want to look at University of Delaware. It’s a great school with lots of offerings. This student might even get a bit of merit aid there. Cost of attendance for OOS is not horrible.

if he wants to head south…look at University of South Carolina, or University of Alabama.

115

The truth is that when money is an issue a whole lot of colleges are out of the picture. You just got to deal with what is left and make choices. My kids have limited choices but still there are choices. It is a bit harsh in the beginning but then they adjust. What we have done is that we looked closely at programs and what they offer and opportunities within the programs. I told my kids that it is true they could have gotten in those schools with less effort. I did not debate them on that. I added though that they should not to be very surprised if with such an attitude they might get accepted to the school but not directly to their majors. My son wants to go to the B school. I told him that some employers might want to see his SAT scores when he will be hunting for summer internships. That took care of I don’t want to try one more time very fast. Also, when they are at the state school, who do they think will get all the opportunities? The kids that barely got in? The ones that do not show genuine effort? When it comes to money my kids are absolutely not spoiled. They never ask for anything we do not afford, never complain and they have jobs during the year and all summer long. Still it took a bit of discussion for them to feel happy and comfortable with their college choices and to understand how lucky they are that we afford the state school with no loans. In my mind that is fine and part of parenting.

116

I think I said this in one of my other posts, but they think they can afford $15k to $20k per year for my nephew. If he goes to Rutgers and lives on-campus, he would still need the Stafford loan for that.

117

@DrGoogle, my dad was unemployed for more than five years, and my parents did a great job of hiding it from us kids.

I didn’t get that we stopped getting new clothes and my brother had to scrimp for every $500 scholarship he could find. That we had pasta for dinner five times per week not once. That we stopped going out to eat.

Rutgers in Newark is not in a bad area at all, I would not fear for my child’s safety there. Camden, maybe different but I do know a lot of my son’s older friends go there and are happy. U Delaware is on a lot of kids’ lists as well.

I still think that letting him apply to a few dream schools and letting him see the FA numbers if accepted will be the best course. When kids see “it will be 20K per year more to attend this school than that school”, it hits home. Otherwise, it can be amorphous.

118

PO: I think he’s just slacking at the end of junior year is all…and maybe pouting a bit. He’s a kid, so perfectly normal:). But maybe the new technique he tries is “how much merit can I get”? Study like crazy this summer to bring up the test score.

He can go to many places with only R&B to pay if he really looks hard, and pulls out a better SAT/ACT! It is something worth working toward!

119

thumper1 I am quite familiar with Binghamton. Very. I’m unimpressed. It is cheap and efficient. And the students run the gamut from very strong to those about whom you have to wonder how they every passed 11th grade. If you want a quick easy degree, it offers that. http://chronicle.com/article/How-I-Aced-College-and-Why-I/63791/ It is a fine safety but I bet this student will want more.

120

One thing to consider is that there can be a lot of peer pressure to go to a school that fits with your academic status. Though it’s been almost 10 years (!) since I graduated from high school, I do remember feeling bad that I was going to a third tier state university as my similarly ranked friends and classmates headed off to Rice, HPYS, WUSTL, Reed, etc., etc. In the end, it worked out very well (I loved my school, got a great education, and it cost my family about $32k inclusive), but that spring of senior year, it did sort of feel like I had “wasted” my hard work at times.