Last Summer Together a Disaster...Why?

Parent Cafe
81

<p>Any body watch bridezillas? that “stress” is self-created…self induced…and self-involved</p>

<p>Irishbird makes some great points</p>

<p>If we just let adult get away with being rude and mean and snotty cause they are heaven forbid stressed about going off to do something amazing and wonderful…</p>

<p>College kids somehow manage to have manners with store clerks, other people but some can’t do it with mom and dad, and can’t appreciate them</p>

<p>If your mom keeps having to remind you, maybe you DO need to do stuff.</p>

<p>Do you complainers about parents butting in (gee tis their house, go live in your car if you want so much freedom) do you tell the anything, do you share, do you talk to them about whst you are doing, do you ask advice, or do you say, will on Friday I graduated HS, and I no longer need you for nothing, oh except food, shelter, and to pay for schools</p>

<p>the ungratefulness by some damn lucky kids astounds me</p>

82

<p>As a upcoming college freshman, I’ve been talking to some friends about these last few weeks at home. Of course most people at this point in life want this time to be happy and enjoyable, I’d imagine - after all, living at home will never be the same again. But fighting with parents happens more often that you’d think.</p>

<p>One of my friends has an interesting theory: Some people might fight with their parents because they are unconsciously (or consciously, depending on the person) trying to make the impending separation less painful by not leaving relationships at the optimal state.</p>

<p>Whether or not this theory is true, I don’t know, but it’s an interesting idea to put out there. Of course, wanting to make parting less painful doesn’t excuse rude behavior and picking fights, but at least it’s an understandably human reaction. Thoughts, anyone?</p>

83

<p>Well, okay – maybe, I live on Pluto. College was and still is, imho, a positive life change, and I don’t think it is beyond the ability of any 18-year old to comprehend that it is a lot better than a death of a family member or a close friend. Let’s not be silly and compare it to that. </p>

<p>And, it’s nowhere near being fired from a job, either. Anyone who has experienced that memorable experience knows the feeling of having the air sucked out of his/her lungs. I was unjustifiably fired from a job for refusing to pick up my boss’s wife’s dry cleaning. At the age of 25, I hired a lawyer and got my job back. That was stressful. </p>

<p>At the age of 17, I moved to another state and started college on my own with zero help from my parents. I lived below the poverty line on food stamps and in substandard housing for two years, with no health insurance. Poverty is stressful.</p>

<p>I worked my way through college on grants, work-study, summer employment, and a gap year of full-time employment. Gathering my few belongings together to start college in the Fall was not stressful. I was grateful that I had a place to live and that I had the money to go back to school. </p>

<p>So, don’t tell me that leaving for college is just cause for treating parents badly and causing grief in the household. It isn’t, and anyone who has the opportunity should be grateful for the help that is offered. Parents know the drill, and we know that we’re supposed to let go. But, don’t tell us that we have to ignore bad behavior.</p>

84

<p>I completely agree with sluggbugg. I’m about to go to college in exactly a month today, and I personally feel that I owe it to my parents to be communicative and friendly to them this last month at home. Yes, in a month I can listen to whatever music I want, watch whatever movies I want, and do whatever the heck I want on a Friday night. But, I’m only 17, and while I’m under my parents’ roof, they’re still my parents. Plus, they’re paying close to 50 grand a year to send me to school. I owe more to them then they will ever owe to me. I feel like a lot of soon-to-be college freshman have an attitude of “How dare my parents want to love me and care about me and be concerned about me while I’m living my last month with them?” I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m going to miss my nosy Dad asking me fifty questions about what I’m going to do on a Friday night. And I don’t know about other households, but in my household, my Dad’s word is final. He tells me to do something, and I don’t argue. If he tells me to lose the attitude, I lose it. I feel like a lot of freshman in this thread are really disrespecting their parents just because they think that they don’t have to answer to them anymore. My parents only rule for me this summer: While you’re still at home, you’re our child, and you will do what we tell you. Next summer, my dad has informed me that I will be allowed to do more, but I still have to follow basic house rules. I think that saying that having an attitude and not wanting to be nice to your parents is normal makes more teenagers feel like having an attitude is justified, when it is most definitely NOT. It’s only a month, or even less for some freshman, so why not make it enjoyable? You don’t want to look back and think “Wow, I was a real brat my LAST summer at home.” Make the most of it. Having an attitude with your parents doesn’t benefit anyone. It may make you feel like you’re in control of your life, but you’re really not.</p>

85

<p>this thread is full of TTT philosphy</p>

86

<p>To clarify, I think leaving home for college is stressful … not bad or sad or horrible. Good things can be stressful and cause people to act irritably with each other. Parents are stressed; kids are stressed. As I have said before, I don’t think parents should tolerate abusive behavior from children. However, I do think parents should try to understand irritable behavior by college-bound children and find ways to deal with the behavior. I am not suggesting parents ignore unpleasant behavior but that doesn’t mean we have to nit-pick at everything.</p>

<p>Several people here are emphasizing that it’s a two-way-street. Everyone is stressed and everyone should be nice to each other. I agree. But the reality is that parents are not leaving home, the kids are. In addition, parents have more experience in dealing with stressful life situations and, as parents, should be willing to bite their tongues and be gentle when possible.</p>

87

<p>To My Friends here on CC,</p>

<p>Although I’ve not posted since my OP, I have been eagerly drinking in your experiences and advice; thank you.</p>

<p>My DS has always required more, much more. Over the years we have sacrificed much to relationship to meet what believed were legitimate needs. Now, he has absolutely nothing to do with us…only avoidance and ridicule and anger. I ask, how much patience, gentleness, and support can a parent demonstrate. Yes, the children are heading off to college and a new life. I did that years ago and I was never like my DS. True, parents have more life experiences under their belts, but remember that each stressful experience is new and different no matter who owns it. While my DS will go off to an uncertain future, so will I and my DH. DS will have thrilling new experiences in spite of the newly conferred responsibilities; plenty of distraction. DH and I will have an empty house, quiet so thick you cut it with a knife, and an unimaginable amount of debt just as we reach our mid-60s. DH and I have recently lost our parents…only one, now in failing health, remains. As DS might say, “fun stuff”. Also, because we are older parents we are facing not only the loss of DS, and our “mommies and daddies”, but also the realization that while DS grew up, we grew old. I am ill and significantly disabled…under a doctor’s care, unable to go forth into my new future with a great deal of vigor. I feel we have given and given and given to someone who only thinks that everything is about him. And, that’s so unfair.</p>

<p>I don’t think that I will ever be able to forgive my DS for the pain he has inflicted particularly on me this summer. I feel there is no life in this house, and that he has sucked away the only happiness I have had. He occupies his space, preparing not-at-all for the departure next month. All the chores and worries left to me…my DH just ignores him and the process. I pull in the traces, as I have for so many years, hoping that somewhere inside of DS there is a candle that has gone out but which can be rekindled…so that he will find himself, his ambition, and a life. I have tried to resuscitate this life and our relationship too many times. It’s time to call it.</p>

<p>I go forward from this place readying him for college, doing all these things this one last time…hoping that his light will be rekindled, but if not, knowing he will not be welcome back into this house for all he has done.</p>

<p>Students, I respectfully ask that you love your parents, their nit-picky ways that show they care, their enthusiasm for the life you’re about to launch into. Please don’t shut them out…for they have lived for you and through you for so long, and love you dearly and are going through their own painful time. They only want the best for you. If only you could hold them tight, look into their eyes, and see their deepest love for you…and recipricate, for this time will never be again…not for you or for them. Fixing it a month, a vacation break, or a year from now will never repair the hurt.</p>

<p>Again, thank you all for your insightful comments.</p>

<p>I especially want to thank Aviatrix10, whose lovely words have brought tears to my eyes. I will hold your thoughts close, and only wish that some of your sensitivity and wisdom could have come from my own DS. Thank you.</p>

88

<p>Oh, please - DRJ4. Are you living with an 18-1/2 year old and have you ever launched one? This is my second time around, so give me a break with the reality advice. In some cases, we are talking about abusive behavior, and it goes way beyond the realm of biting one’s tongue to deal with it. How do you define abusive? If my husband treated me with the same disrespect and volatility as my son, it would be grounds for divorce. </p>

<p>Don’t lecture me about choosing my battles. This family would have imploded a long time ago if my husband and I hadn’t learned that the cohesiveness of the family depended on our ability to exercise superhuman patience, understanding, and tolerance. I don’t think you understand this behavior, because I don’t think you’d be so quick to patronize other parents with your advice. You’ve been reading too many parenting books written by know-it-alls who are either not in this phase of parenting, or whose kids have launched, and they’ve recovered their sanity. </p>

<p>All I can do is stand up to him when he goes over the line, and let him know exactly where that line is. I, like every other parent, have the right to defend my things, my partner, and my peace of mind. Sorry, but that’s where I draw the line on letting my child express his angst over college.</p>

89

<p>Wow wow wow…to the OP Sage44</p>

<p>I applaud your honesty…you have been put through the ringer by, sorry to say, an un grateful brat…</p>

<p>You need to stop trying…consider cut off $$, do not do anything for him at all, he does not care…and that is not your fault, but to continue hoping just causes so much pain, i can feel it</p>

<p>Seriouslly, do no more for the young adult…whatever you are paying for, cut it off- phone, food, and why should you pay for his school? It may be seen as extreme, but why continue supporting a mean person- no matter if they are related?</p>

<p>It does sound like you are trying, but it is time to cut the cord.</p>

<p>When he is at school, if you continue to pay for it, send no money, nothing beyond tuition and books- he can work for his clothes, his partying, his funtimes, if you feel you need to keep up your end of the deal to help with tuition, I understand, but please, do no more…he does not deserve it</p>

<p>And if he pouts, or makes threats, well, you are already at that place, aren’t you? If he says, well, I won’t come home again, what have you lost?</p>

<p>He has managed to be a bully of sorts, and I am sooooo sorry for that. It shows that even the best of parents can have jerks for children</p>

<p>There was a line in a movie with John Cleese, called Clockwise. He is trying to get to a confernece to accept an award and everything horrid happens…but each time he makes one step ahead, he slides back ten…he is laying in a field staring at the sky, dressed in a monks habit, covered in manure…he says</p>

<p>“You know it not the despair that gets me down, its the hope that keeps getting to me…”</p>

<p>(what he means is at some point you jsut have to surrendor to the reality of your situation and move on)</p>

<p>Again, hopefully your son will realize what a creepy person he has been, and apologize, but don’t hope too hard, just move on…</p>

90

<p>citygirlsmom’s advice sounds like a recipe for turning an unhappy summer into many years or a lifetime of never speaking to your child again.</p>

91

<p>Sage44,</p>

<p>I’m sorry you are in poor health and that you have become estranged from your son.</p>

<p>Sluggbugg,</p>

<p>I never intended my posts to lecture or sound patronizing. To the extent my opinions offended you, please be assured that they were not directed at you or anyone else. I view CC as a discussion forum where all reasonable comments are welcome and everyone is free to ignore comments with which they disagree.</p>

92

<p>Oh Sage, I’m so sorry to read about all the pain you’re going through. Have you and you H spoken with each other concerning your son’s behavior? Does he treat his father the same way he treats you? Maybe you could both speak honestly with S about his behavior, present a united front, let him know that you will not continue to put up with abuse. I agree with CGM. You are under no obligation to financially support an abusive child. It’s not unreasonable to expect a modicum of civility. </p>

<p>At the same time, I hope the other parents are right. I hope that by this time next year, all this strife will just seem like a bad dream. I hope that you will fully forgive your son, even though you may feel now that that’s impossible. Is there a close friend, counselor, or pastor/rabbi you could confide in? You need to somehow find a way to be at peace, no matter how the summer shakes out. The stress and mental anguish are not good for your health, and that’s what’s got me concerned. You are in my thoughts and prayers.</p>

93

<p>Sage,
It is probably not your instinct, but the kid is ready for some ‘tough love.’ Just because you love him and hope for better from the relationship doesn’t mean you have to like him or the way he treats you or what he does to your family life. From what you have said this really doesn’t sound like a ‘I am trying to get you to get comfortable with me leaving’ sort of thing- more like an insensitive, self centered, tedious kid…at least for now.</p>

<p>I would not withdraw funds for college if indeed you had articulated intent to pay, but I would establish guidelines as in: college starts on X day and we will leave the house at X time and whatever you have packed is what you will have.We will pay for Y, we will not pay for Z. Set limits and stick to them. Enlist a 3rd party to send money if you are going to be inclined to do so too readily. Letting him walk all over you on all accounts in the hopes of preserving some shred of a relationship is not going to get you anywhere, at this point. Create conditions for continued support-- related to GPA and some regularity of communication. </p>

<p>As to why he is the way he is, that is another story. Maybe he has always been a bit nasty and oppositional, and you have had rose colored glasses until recently. Sadly, there are kids like this. Then there are kids who were NOT like this until their teen years. Sometimes these kids are using drugs, sometimes they are in the first stages of mental illness, sometimes they are struggling with other identity issues. You might have some insight into this.</p>

<p>In my extended circle of acquaintances I know 2 families with sons who always treated their parents (and lots of other people in fact) like dirt. One now has a saint of a wife who softens him, makes others see the good parts of him- I still don’t like what he does to his family. He still walks all over his parents. The other has parents who established clear limits and selectively supported the son when he met with established criterion. He is still not a nice kid, but he has not ruined his parents relationship and they are okay with not liking him all the time.</p>

<p>It is okay to not do too much. It is okay to stand up for yourself. It is okay to say no. If your husband can’t or won’t support you in this, find someone who will.</p>

94

<p>Sage, I’m truly sorry for what is going on in your life right now. That said, unless you never want to have a son in your life again, don’t listen to citygirlsmom. See how he acts after he goes away to school. Also, one thing I feel as a teenager myself is that putting up a “united front” with your husband will do nothing more than make him feel like he’s being pushed up against a corner and threatened, which will make him only more defensive and abusive. It’s always possible that you just raised an ******* and that’s that…it’s great to hear that it’s not your fault at all and that you deserve to be revered (I agree that parents deserve a measure of respect), but most of the time the parents hold at least some of the blame, whether it be due to a lack of discipline in the early years or whatnot. Reproduction doesn’t make you infallible.</p>

<p>I posted earlier about my experiences this summer, so let me say this before you decide to put me in her crosshairs again, citygirlsmom. I still let my mom know I love her and spend time with her. Moodiness doesn’t always warrent what you seem to think it does.</p>

95

<p>I agree with the member that said she had given up on the curfew thing. I have as well.</p>

<p>My daughter is enjoying time with friends so much. They all worked so hard during high school and now ‘they’re in’!</p>

<p>They go to movies that do not start until ten p.m. and then eat pizza afterwards. She sleeps until ten every day. She works out in the mornings and has a small job for four hours in the afternoon.</p>

<p>She is at such peace … though once in a while a bit of condescension creeps in towards me that is rarely ever there, just a bit.</p>

<p>I just say as sweetly as I can, you are going to miss me. She replies I know. That is my way of saying I understand.</p>

<p>I am pleased to give her this lazy, easy summer. She has worked so hard. </p>

<p>On August 27, I put her on the plane for New York. A bus is coming to campus to take them to some super store for dorm room things. She is buying every thing there though we have a trip planned to our local branch of that store just to scope it out.</p>

<p>She is taking two huge suitcases and I am mailing the rest.</p>

<p>That’s it. A drive to the airport and her new life begins.</p>

<p>And so does mine!</p>

<p>I think we’re both a little scared.</p>

<p>All the best, that’s just our experience here but then we have never had too many extremes in our relationship so this seems normal, it’s sort of how I thought it would be.</p>

96

<p>I am sorry. I don’t think I said it very well.</p>

<p>My point is … I began letting go in May.</p>

<p>She has no curfew, no rules, no expectations of her this summer.</p>

<p>We are not over planning her new life. I am not overly involved.</p>

<p>She is buying what she wants once she gets there.</p>

<p>She is packing what she wants to take in her suitcases about a week before she leaves.</p>

<p>We are not making a big deal about it.</p>

<p>I am emphasizing to her the overall goal of a freshman year in college.</p>

<p>Figure out where you fit in!</p>

<p>Try new things.</p>

<p>Work hard and enjoy.</p>

<p>Maybe we are too laid back.</p>

<p>It has really helped her to go somewhere like my place or my space and chat with incoming freshmen.</p>

<p>Actually, she thinks this Board is nutty and hasn’t met anyone from here.</p>

<p>One look at the catty comments and she said whew, that’s insane, why would anyone subject themselves to that.</p>

<p>She also believe this board really serves its owners so they can charge a huge fee to get students into Ivy League schools … when she just got in totally on her own.</p>

<p>She thinks the rake off the data and use it to give wealthy students an advantage!</p>

<p>She’s probably right – but she has her place and I have mine!</p>

<p>Just let it unfold, I guess I’m saying and don’t over plan or over analyze …</p>

<p>Ironically, though that’s the total purpose of this Board … to let College Confidential totally plan an analyze a student’s admission.</p>

<p>hmmmmmmmmmm</p>

97

<p>Sage, my heart goes out to you. When my first S was applying to schools 4 years ago, he had no desire to be within driving distance of home. Although we had always had a ‘good’ relationship, he was clear that he was ready to fly the nest and be as far from home as possible. We felt fortunate when he decided to go to school on the east coast instead of the west so that he was only 13 hours away by car. His senior year was a tough one emotionally with his moods swinging far and wide. The summer before heading to college it was all I could do to get him out to get items for school. He seemed to run hot and cold all of the time - one minute ready to bite my head off, the next minute giving me a quick hug. I finally got him to shop with me two weeks before school started and I commented to him that it had been an odd summer. He stopped in the middle of the store and said to me “Mom, it’s just not fair. The past four years, I’ve been embarrassed by everything that you and Dad do. I have wanted to get away and be on my own. But the past few months I’ve suddenly realized that I really like you - just when I want to be with you, I’m going away!” Such a perfect statement of the contradictory feelings our children have as they face the biggest step they’ve taken thus far in their lives. I’m not saying that we haven’t had our ups and downs in the past three years (he is now entering his senior year) - in fact, I see a new phase of the same beginning now as he realizes that in another year he is faced with the working world or grad school - either way he is out on his own - a very scary thought for both of us! But remembering back to that moment has helped me put in perspective my son’s responses over the years - there is a constant tug-o’-war going on inside him as he moves on to complete independence. It doesn’t always make it easier - he is still my first and Lord knows any perceived ‘rejection’ by him hurts - but it does help me get past it.</p>

98

<p>I have some further reflections on this thread:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>There seems to be a lot of complaints about boys not doing enough “preparation” for college. How much preparation is really necessary? If the kid already has a computer and a warm coat, chances are he could pack for college in an hour and be absolutely fine. My daughter did lots of “preparation”, but that was her choice. The whole find-the-perfect-bathrobe-and-shower-tote thing is NOT mandatory. I hope that if I were 18 again, and my parents insisted on doing stuff like that, I could find it in my heart to suck it up and go along cheerfully. I commend those who do. But my heart goes out a little to the poor kids who are trapped in someone else’s compulsion about really trivial stuff.</p></li>
<li><p>I think we all have some sympathy for the self-absorption of kids who are facing what is often the first major change of their lives, and I think that we all feel a little critical of kids who are COMPLETELY self-absorbed and insensitive to their parents. It is worth remembering, too, that we parents are not completely self-absorption-free when it comes to “losing” our deeply, deeply loved and nurtured children, and paying through the nose for the privilege. I sure wasn’t. There is a “What about MEEEEEE . . . ?” undercurrent to some of the parental posts here. Of course, I’m sympathetic, too, but really it’s our job as parents to keep that to a minimum.</p></li>
<li><p>At the beginning of the summer between high school and college, I was moody and depressed. It had nothing to do with my parents; it had a lot to do with a sense of loss about my high school life (which I had loved), anxiety about the future, and the boyfriend of the girl I had a crush on coming home from college (with the concurrent lesson that, yes, I was #2, which might as well have meant #999). One night, my father decided to have a talk with me. We were walking our dog, as we often did. He made clear that he was about to impart the Essential Male Wisdom of the Ages to me, as passed down from his father to him long ago. It was very hard for him – it took him about a mile and a half to get the following out (edited to remove pauses and “uh’s”): “When the other guys talk about what they’re doing with their girlfriends, a lot of the time it’s just talk, you know?” This cheered me right up, because it dawned on me for the very first time that my father had absolutely no idea what he was doing, and barely knew anything about me. My mother had successfully fooled me for years into thinking my father had something to do with my upbringing. (And it’s not like I never talked to him; it’s just that we mainly talked about politics and movies.) I spent the rest of the summer mulling over the implications of that revelation (in between chasing a different girl, also unsuccessfully).</p></li>
</ol>

<p>The morals of the story: Moody behavior is not necessarily hostility to your parents. Parents – have a heart and do something entertaining for your kids.</p>

99

<p>I’m going to my freshmen year and it has been an emotional roller coster for me and my parents because the US is on the other side of the world to us.</p>

<p>Anyway I do think they are having a herd time dealing with the fact that they have to let go , my dad especially , I don’t think he believes I ready to go on my own yet and still think I’m too young and that many things are ablivious to me.</p>

<p>But I’m trying my best to help him learn to let go , even if it means doing what your son did .</p>

<p>I hope you understand his point of view and consider the things that he did to be minor mishaps and I wish you and your son the best .</p>

<p>Yours Truly,
SaiLoRMe</p>

100

<p>I’m going to try to offer some possible solutions. If you want to fix the situation my ideas may work. If what you really need is emotional support that’s something I don’t feel qualified to provide because I honestly can’t imagine how difficult that must be for a mother. I offer you my sympathies and hope that things get better between you and your son. </p>

<p>Do you have any sense what the source of the avoidance, ridicule and anger are? Is it possible that although you have done what you believed to be the right thing to do that somehow those actions might have led to his behavior? I’m not saying that you’re a bad mom at all, so please don’t think that. You sound like a great mom who really wants to be there for her son. But maybe just maybe the way he needs you to be there for him is different. Do you try to help him get stuff done? Remind him what needs to be done? Maybe he interprets that as you not trusting that he is capable of taking care of himself. Maybe that’s not it at all. I don’t know your son so I can’t say. If you two are still speaking to each other, asking him if you have done anything that has led to this behavior and how you could change might be a good start. That does NOT mean that you are a bad mother or the one at fault! But you can only control your own actions, so it’s really the only way you can help. </p>

<p>Have you told him how you felt? I don’t mean blaming him or saying what he does wrong, but something more like “when you go out with you friends all night instead of having dinner with the family it really makes me sad and I feel as if you don’t love me or appreciate me. It would mean a lot to me if we could have some time together before you leave because you going away to college is very difficult for me.” Maybe me won’t understand, but maybe he will.</p>

<p>I want to strongly encourage you to forgive him. Not for his sake, but for yours. If you can forgive him and reconcile with him you will feel SO much better. I recognize that it is probably an incredibly difficult thing to do! I acknowledge that, yet still encourage you to try to forgive him. </p>

<p>Some things that might be going on with him:

  1. It is likely he wants to be independent, and perhaps feels that your requests to get ready for college and your desire to spend time with him compromise his ability to become independent (which is, ironically, one way he might interpret “get ready for college”!).
  2. Perhaps he’s in denial that he has to leave and doesn’t want to face that fact.
  3. Perhaps he even realizes what he’s done and is guilty.
  4. Maybe he’s just unsure of how college will be, if he’ll be able to handle it, etc. and is (wrongly) taking that out on you.
  5. none of the above </p>

<p>Are you christian? If so, the bible and prayer might be helpful. Even if you aren’t, Jesus still had some good ideas about how to get along with other people and in the process feel better yourself. He talks a lot about forgiveness, reconciliation, loving each other, etc. You might find some good advice if you read the bible, even if that’s not your thing at all. His advice is rarely easy to follow, but it works.</p>