You can still dispute the fee. Arbitration would be agreed upon in a contract with the attorney, which you state you didn’t have. The $3000+ fees require a contract, so that would be up to the attorney to protect herself with a fee agreement or be out any amounts above $3k. You can still dispute that she overbilled you. If the bar association doesn’t have a way to do that, you can take her to small claims court just like you could take the dry cleaner who overbilled you.
The ethics rules require a lawyer’s fee to be reasonable. Without an itemized bill we have no way of determining reasonableness. Get the bill, look at it and go from there. Until then, it’s just speculation.
Hopefully a mostly final update. Sis has all the paperwork today - except my check that I wrote out in Sept which is supposedly still at the county courthouse. Turns out she signed a retainer for $3000 on Nov 6th. She just didn’t realize it because it was explained to her as “You need to sign this paper so I can get you your paperwork at the courthouse.”
The saga might continue because sis thinks none of the paperwork is original. She thinks everything she has are copies. I dunno. I’m not seeing them in person as of yet. I’ve been busy with mom today.
Regardless, she’s taking everything to the new lawyer and letting him sort things out. It can’t be worse (one would hope). This guy has promised to have everything done (for sis to get officially started) within a month. Considering the old waivers had dad’s middle initial wrong, I’m guessing he needs to start from scratch, but we’re all quite willing to sign whatever. If the will is a copy I’ve no idea what’s next. I’m not sure how they could tell - perhaps via dad’s signature? The lawyer could have signed a copy in person, but obviously dad wouldn’t have been able to.
A large part of me just feels relief that the saga is done and ready to just let it be a story we warn others about, so I’m not sure if we’d be up to a small court challenge or not. I’ll see what sis thinks after the holiday and after we see what the new guy can do.
IF you don’t file a bar complaint against this first lawyer, the cc’ers here will!!!
Wow. Just wow. I’m looking at the paperwork now - yes - it’s all copies. The cover letter said the originals are all filed at the county courthouse. We called the county courthouse. It was filed today - except there is too much wrong with it and it’s being returned to lawyer 1 for corrections. We can’t get it personally because the lawyer is representing sis. None of the waivers are included, though the checklist says all are there. The family tree doesn’t even have the grandkids listed even though all four are in the will.
That’s only half the story.
Those errors? Seems in their cutting and pasting paperwork they used a template for a different person and didn’t remove their information - name, address, executor’s name, etc, are all the other estate’s in more than one place - ours in other places. I could easily contact that family if I were to choose to do so.
Lawyer 2 asked for us to take pics and send it all to him so he can get started on it. He’s already winning bonus points from all of us, but it will probably take longer than expected and cost more (sigh).
The laughing point is Lawyer 1 continued to trash me to sis on the cover letter. She has no idea sis and I are in kahoots and sis thinks as poorly of her (or more) than I do. Not a single person in my family or sis’s circle of friends in this area think this lawyer has done as stellar of a job as she seems to think she’s done. If I’d written this into a novel, no one would believe it - but now we have the copies of it all in print at least to back it up should anyone want to see it. (Locally - not meaning I’d post it on cc or similar.)
You have an ethics and incompetency complaint to file later. Even if a complaint results in no action against her, put your experience on her record. But later.
So your father’s will includes someone else’s details? Get it thrown out or invalidated and either you or Sis named administratrix. (That’s what I would check for possibilities, this week.) See if the original document can be cited as so negligent that it’s untrustworthy.
I think maybe, if it’s at all possible, you’d make a better admin on this.
O.M.G.
Not the will itself with the wrong name/address/etc. The papers to submit the will. Those are half filled out with the correct info and then there’s the other half - all mixed in together on the same pages. One line is correct and the next isn’t.
@jym626 That was our reaction too. I thought sis was exaggerating when she texted me. Nope.
Why in the world has the old lawyer filed anything? Was she directed to do so? I thought she was direct to prepare her bill and hand over the papers. This is a scam – the lawyer is looking for more money to file motions to withdraw and such. She is hoping the estate will be ordered to pay.
In any event, since something has been filed, the new lawyer should be able to just enter the case as co-counsel or substitute council at your sister’s request, while you boot the other lawyer out. Time for him to get involved, pronto. He can pick up the filed paperwork at the courthouse. No reason to go back to the original lawyer, who I would avoid like the plague.
We still don’t have an itemized bill - or any specific bill. Sis did get a receipt for the check she gave her though - for the $900+.
The contract paper sis signed Nov 6th is two pages long. On the first page it has the representation info and amount (minimum fee of $2750). The second page is the one she signed. Sis insists she was only presented with the second page and told to “Sign here. This paper lets me go to the county seat to get your seal for you.” Sis was so eager to get this that she just signed it. It was two days before we decided to go with anyone else so I expect we’re going to be on the hook for even more $$, esp since there’s no way to prove what sis says, though the paper she signed has the arbitration option on it and with the incorrect paperwork in hand, I’m guessing that now puts arbitration out there as a possibility (guaranteed on our end) if she asks for more.
Thursday Nov 8th my sister told her to stop working - we were going with someone else.
The whole court thing was amusing. Monday they talked with us freely - nothing filed, really sorry, but there’s nothing here. One of the security guards had had dad as a teacher in his youth and hadn’t heard he had died, so there was some chit chat in the room, etc.
Yesterday when H called he was at first nicely told the paperwork was filed yesterday, having been received in the mail(!), then a different lady got on the phone and told him since it was filed by a lawyer they can’t speak with him at all about anything. WE wrote the check for the fee, so he said he was just trying to track down his check, then got the information that some things were incorrect. Items like the check were being returned to the lawyer to be fixed. We’re wondering why it was mailed considering the lawyer is there most days of the week. Why not do it in person? What day was it mailed? There’s no way we can find out at this point.
We’ve been musing about the difference - if it’s normal or if it changed due to the lawyer and the lady being friends and starting to go on “lockdown.”
Lawyer #2 is an estate expert. H looked him up online yesterday. Sis chose him - I told her choose anyone else, they’re bound to be better. We like her pick from what we see. Someday he ought to be able to work all this crud out. If lawyer #1 asks for a penny more than $999.99, we’ll definitely do arbitration - esp with copies of such incorrect paperwork filed on hand. I always tell my kids at school to proofread anything turned in officially. (I’m very lenient on tests unless spelling was the reason for the question.) I definitely expect lawyers filing things to do the same! If it had just been an initial, that’s something that could happen - forgivable. Whole names and addresses being incorrect? Known blanks left empty. How does this happen from someone who passed law school?
Switching to Thanksgiving Mode here now. If/when things happen, I’ll update to let anyone following know what happened, but with the holiday quickly approaching I doubt much more will happen this week.
I think you’ve gotten good advice from others, and I’m sorry to hear that things are so screwed up. Just to add a couple of observations from a Midwest criminal prosecutor with no experience with probate (i.e. no more expertise than anyone else here):
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This lawyer needs to be reported for gross incompetence. I agree that you need to get all the files from her first.
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This
was your first red flag. Don’t ever do this, no matter what the extenuating circumstances. If anyone asks you to do this, run away and get a new (doctor/lawyer/hair stylist/chicken farmer/whatever). If you ever do this again, I will hunt you down and slap you. :-j Seriously, though, this act alone was sufficient cause to dump this lawyer and start over.
Likewise, it won’t stand up that your sister just wanted to get it done.
No, only your sister can technically ask for certain info. If this is over her head, or she’s inadvertently causing some issues, see if she would cede authority to your husband. Or you. Ask lawyer 2 what can be done. May be possible if enough flaws in the will or it’s handling to-date make it suspect.
With #2, try to keep this to the relevant aspects, not some of the ancillary details.
Btw, it’s not just what he’s supposedly expert at, but reviews and whether any complaints have been lodged.
Arrgh! I did not read all the responses, but I feel your pain @Creekland ! The attorney who handled my dad’s will and estate matters was sooo sloow! He just dragged everything out! For over 2 years! I was so frustrated. I started to make reminders to myself to harass him on a weekly basis. If he was not available, I would call and ask for the paralegal, to whom I would make my demands. I called the county to figure out my rights and just to get informed on what paperwork needed filing. I would refuse to pay until the attorney did the work he already billed for. So frustrating. BUT, it doesn’t have to be this way! There are other estate attorneys out there who are prompt and courteous and don’t sit on stuff for months. We have one like this for our own matters. I really feel for you especially since it’s your sister who is executor. Maddening. It would not be tolerated in most other businesses to ignore your clients.
If I called or emailed my parents estate lawyer, the minimal charge was $76.00 my message could be, “Have you done anything?). And they could answer “no” but then charge me monthly. They would send a form letter that nothing new has happened. Month to month, the only difference was the date.
So, now I use my close friend as my estate lawyer, who charges me $0. And she has me join her for T-day for the upteen time.
That is absolutely outrageous. Charging a client for non-substantive work?!
Good lawyers won’t charge for basic calls. Once you get past five min and on to substantive legal issues the meter starts running.
Decades ago, I worked for a company that made the sw/hw to time calls, for charging clients. It’s not a new idea. If you’re not offered a package, consider looking for a different attorney.
It was definitely a red flag that I mentioned to all involved. We just let it slide because it’s rural and often things don’t go “by the books” in rural places. I’ll admit I expected something “legal” from a lawyer to still go by the books though. At that time we actually thought she’d get the paperwork done that week as she told us she would and I had to head home for this little thing called work so there was no real choice but to do what was told - or be the cause of delay on our end. We had no idea two months later we’re still be at square one. It all seemed so promising. Dad really picked a “winner.” One has to fill in their own blank for the category she’s the winner at. I have some, but they aren’t really suitable for a message board.
Haven’t heard from lawyer #2 yet, but we just got home from Thanksgiving ourselves and sis plans to call him tomorrow. I imagine him looking at what we emailed and going WTH? Or at least that’s what I hope he’s doing. We spent just under 1K for absolutely nothing except to pay for killing time. Dad died three months ago today. I wonder what he’s thinking about all of this (theoretically or literally pending what the afterlife is actually like).
Meant to share this: https://eldercarematters.com/
Reading this thread has given me a headache. The frustration is unreal!
Your sister is not a person who should be attempting to handle legal matters. She was clearly conned.
IMNSHO, this lawyer should be on the brink of losing her license. But I have seen lawyers do monumentally unethical things around estate matters.