I wouldn’t go so far as to say that marriage is outdated, but I think it has lost some of its meaning when it became a thoroughly legal, and not just religious/spiritual/moral institution. Also, it is a lot easier to get divorced than it used to be, which can a good thing for those in bad relationships (abuse, adultery, etc.), but is not always good if it’s a matter of selfishness.
As for the test drive stuff - not my cup of tea or way of thinking of relationships, but there’s nothing new under the sun. Also, please someone tell me a story of someone who “discovered” that their spouse and they were not “sexually compatible” after marriage and got divorced because of that. Because to me that explanation for why to live together (i.e., have sex with each other) before marriage just sounds like a well crafted excuse to go to bed.
I volunteer as a sexual health educator. I’ve heard of more than one divorce, in counseling, for people who have been sexually incompatible.
I also have plenty of historical records detailing marriages that were dissolved because they couldn’t be consummated.
I’m currently reading Hermaphrodites and the Medical Invention of Sex by Alice Dreger and… you guessed it… most of the “hermaphrodites” were rejected by their spouses and their marriages dissolved (with the blessing of the church) after their “condition” was discovered.
To really believe that people don’t get divorced because of sexual incompatibility is really naive.
So what does the literature say about how sexual compatibility in the first year or so does at predicting compatibility 10, 20 or 30 years in? There are so many “jokes” about the difference between sex before and after marriage. I am not sure if that would extend to before and after living together.
“To really believe that people don’t get divorced because of sexual incompatibility is really naive.”
I don’t believe that, but I also wonder if compatibility before commitment ensures compatibility years after. I sort of believe it is something you have to work on just like everything else, and it’s your willingness and ability to work together that makes this and other things successful.
@romanigypsyeyes Thanks! I admit my presumptions may be a bit naive - I’m not married or living together or anything. And yes, it was a while ago that marriage wasn’t really a legal thing (I don’t know millennia, but probably that’s close, lol).
You missed my point. Marriage has been, fundamentally, a legal institution pretty much from the beginning. Yes, often times it was religious too but mostly in the sense that the theocratic state sanctioned them.
Perhaps the legal piece has different implications of late. Isn’t that why we are hearing so much about same sex marriage? The same sex marriages I know seemed to feel it was ALL about the legalities. Anyway, glad this is “just” an interesting discussion for me.
They stayed married long enough to become the parents of two kids, but the problem was evident right after the wedding. (I know this because long after their divorce, one of them told me about it after having a few drinks.)
It’s a shame they didn’t have a sexual relationship with each other before the wedding. They would never have married, and they might each have found more compatible mates.
D and her boyfriend have been living together for a year, since they graduated, and we’re fine with it. Not camouflaging it for anyone, in or out of the extended family. If anyone disapproves, they haven’t said so to me. Grandma took it in stride.
No one needs “a well crafted excuse” to go to bed. Most people who move in together had sex long before they moved in together.
And I know people who have discovered sexual incompatibility after marriage. One couple married very soon after meeting (had sex before marriage but the scope of the problem became known only after marriage), and the other had saved themselves for marriage and turned out to have huge issues. I’m pretty confident that I’ve known others who had serious sexual problems who just chose not to discuss it with me.
All that said, I think many people live together first for many reasons, among them to assess compatibility in all areas, not just sex.
Dh and I maintained separate residences but we were together all the time at one place or another. But there was something special about taking that big step and committing publically. I think it’s very different in that respect. And for me, it was a really different feeling to be his wife instead of his girlfriend. A great feeling.
For me it’s not the living together that would worry me. It’s what if one of my sons and his GF buy a house together… What if it doesn’t work out? Then there is a mess just as big as if they were married and got a divorce… renting an apartment together would be ok. Preferably while keeping their funds separate until they get married.
I am married to DH for 37 years and we lived together before we got married for about a year. Older d and her boyfriend are coming up on 3 years of living together. Younger d has been in a long distance relationship with boyfriend who is in grad school in another state so during the summer between school years, they live together.
Everyone is totally fine with all these arrangements. My parents never expressed any issues with my living situation, DH’s parents were probably not so happy as they were Orthodox and not something they were too familiar with… but DH was over 30 and so they really did not have anything much they could say about the situation that would have made any difference.
I don’t think the so-called “test drive” requires living together first.
No one is suggesting “arranged marriages”…lol
Couples who are “in committed non-living-together relationships” for awhile aren’t buying the car sight unseen. I do think that couples should spend a LOT of time together and the committed relationship should last at least two years before engagement.
<<<
Also, please someone tell me a story of someone who “discovered” that their spouse and they were not “sexually compatible” after marriage and got divorced because of that.
<<<
I do know of a couple…
BUT…there is a backstory that further explains WHY this happened. They didn’t spend much time together prior to their marriage. Their relationship was “long distance”. I think such a relationship is artificial and not really based on real sexual attraction. The relationship was probably mostly “in their imaginations” rather than real.
I think that when a couple spends a lot of time together, they can “know” whether things will be “ok” in that dept. If you’re the warm and kissy type and the other person is cold and “hands off”, then likely the bedroom is going to be a battlefield.
I haven’t read every post. I fully support a couple living together before marriage. I don’t think it is something to rush into, but I don’t see anything wrong with it and in many ways, I think it is a good step prior to marriage.
My 26 year old daughter has been in a relationship for over 5 1/2 years. They were friends for 3 years before they started dating. They have been living together (renting an apartment) for almost a year. They just got engaged!!! (he is 28) They likely will be married in about 1 1/2 years. I think this is certainly a nice progression over time and bodes well. We are all thrilled with the latest!
My 28 year old daughter is also in a relationship and living with her partner too, but the relationship is less than two years so far. I think it will likely go the distance too.
Mine, too, Marian! My parents were married for 20 years. When I asked my mother (also after a few drinks) when things started to go wrong, she said, “On the wedding night.” TMI!
I don’t care about the people living together before marriage (I did that), or the ones living together in lieu of marriage–but I also value independence. I don’t understand people who move in quickly, for no clear reason–if you aren’t committed, why not keep your own place, your own life? I just don’t see the point. If they don’t have kids, who cares. But I think it’s confusing for kids to have to deal with frequently rotating live-in partners (whether married or not).
Thanks for the info on David Popenoe, romani! I know some of his work but didn’t know his family history.
I did not live with any of my boyfriends nor my H before we were married. Looking back I probably did not do so out of respect for my parents. My father would have had a lot to say about it and my mother would have probably gone along reluctantly but would not have been happy. They were just that way. There really was not the opportunity to live with H as he “closed the deal” pretty quickly - we met in May, were engaged in January and married that July. And I have to say there was something special about those first few years living together after we were married.
I think I would be accepting of the idea with my own children. Mostly because I think they generally make pretty good decisions and I do not believe in getting involved on that level in their lives.
Maybe they just need to get close enough to be familiar with each other’s scent?
I love the way H smells.
*The effects of genetic compatibility
Genetic compatibility results in an increased likelihood of forming an enduring and successful relationship. Research has also shown that the sex lives of genetically compatible partners are more satisfying than average. Additionally, fertility rates are higher in genetically compatible couples and they have healthier children.* http://www.genepartner.com/index.php/science
