<p>I reject this whole marriage convention business. It’s essentially built around the the vestige of women as less than equal.</p>
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<li><p>the whole idea that this should be the biggest accomplishment for the woman, and this will be the best day in her all life, and there won’t be any other day where she is as treasured. Hence, the whole business of propping the bride up as THE main attraction of the event, and where she is the most important part of the whole affair.</p></li>
<li><p>the practice of a father or a male figure to hand over the bride to the groom waiting expectantly. This is so ridiculous in my mind: property hand over, right? The same philosophy as asking the father for the permission. Even notification after the fact. Why should that be the man’s job? It’s HER father for God’s sake. If my husband had done it, I would have punched his nose out It’s an usurpation of my role as an independent woman and daughter.</p></li>
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<p>3.throwing of bouquet and anoint the LUCKY woman in the crowd as the next in line to be so fortunate as to be married. (they don’t do that for men, you know).</p>
<p>The list goes on.</p>
<p>Mind you, I have been happily married to the same man for 26 years. I do believe in the institution or marriage. </p>
<p>Where I came from originally, it’s even worse. The whole convention surrounding the marriage custom and ceremony has not only the the element of a woman as a property to be handed from the father to the groom, but the element of transforming the bride as a collective property of the groom’s family and what “servitude” she owes to his EXTENDED clan. </p>
<p>We got married at a court house. </p>
<p>The running joke in my family is, for my two sons, there will be special elopement bonus when they get married if they choose to exercise that option.</p>
<p>PS. for the same reason, I also reject this whole Hallmark and Zale’s marketing mantra of husbands buying jewelry, cards, and roses for the wedding anniversaries. It’s an industry built around the concept that woman has nothing better to achieve or look forward to. Of course, I am exaggerating here, but many of you would agree that I got it right in terms of the basic philosophy,</p>
<p>I am sure there is a good reason you feel the way you do but I can honestly say I never felt any of those things you mentioned. </p>
<p>I have been married 23 years and was married in a Catholic church. I got married at 25 and fully was self supporting before I got married. </p>
<p>Although I felt like my wedding day was important, I never thought it was the most important day of my life. I can think of about of dozen or so very important days.</p>
<p>I find it really surprising that some of you have such negative opinions. I am geniunely interested in where those come from. I feel very fortunate not to have had any experiences that would have brought such negativity.</p>
<p>I am NOT saying women of current generation or for that matter from my generation FEEL that way and SUBSCRIBE to that philosophy. Not at all.</p>
<p>What I am saying is, the convention has THAT ORIGIN of women as inferior human being - a property to be handed over from one man to another.</p>
<p>So, I do NOT subscribe to that convention the same reason why white people with a Halloween costume with blackened face offends many African Americans, and why calling Obama a food stamp president is so offensive to so many people: black, white or whatever.</p>
<p>Taken out of context, one can say, blackened face is just funny or food stamp president moniker is just a political sloan with no hidden coda.</p>
<p>No, I do NOT have a negative opinions about marriage as an institution. It’s one of two things I did that were the best decisions in my life.</p>
<p>I also ENJOY other people’s wedding parties and ceremonies with all the traditional trimmings that go with it. I just simply won’t do it myself. In fact, I did NOT do it 26 years ago. No negativity. Just NOT who I am and I won’t subscribe to the convention and tradition that has its ORIGIN in the kind of bygone practices that are to inimical to my own sense of who I am.</p>
<p>Also, I am NOT against wedding ceremonies. If I were to do all over again, I would have a wedding ceremony and a party. But, not with the elements of the bride to be presented to the husband as a transferred property. I would walk together with my husband hand in hand to whoever is doing the formal part. I would exchange a vow that completely honors our equality. The whole ceremony will be purged of any vestige of woman as a property or a less empowered being whose life’s culmination is the marriage and wedding.</p>
<p>To all the questions of “what if the Dad says NO?” </p>
<p>I think most people who propose marriage have usually already discussed in some form with their potential spouse. They already know the answer, there just may be some creativity in how it comes about. I think that is probably also true with regard to asking a Dad for his blessing, and why I don’t think many are even close to asking for permission. I don’t believe a man who suspects that Dad and Mom aren’t on board will likely go through those motions. MOST people who propose, and MOST who go to parents in advance do so with the knowledge that the marriage will be happy news.</p>
<p>That said, my best friend was dating a guy who proposed to her by having a special menu printed at a restaurant that said “Hortensia, I love you. Will you marry me?” When she noticed the proposal on the menu, she looked up to see her BF, the Maitre D’, her waiter, and several other employees all watching with huge smiles on their faces. She was horrified, and completely humiliated, and heartbroken for BF. She had planned to break up with him later that evening!</p>
<p>But they had never talked about marrying, she had never told him she loved him, so the whole thing was a little bizarre.</p>
<p>Not going to give anything to any DIL (registered or not). She’s got to earn it.
I’ll maybe do something for any grandkids, that is if they deserve it.</p>
<p>@salander- I proposed to my ex-fiance. I most certainly did not ask his mother’s permission (he has no relationship with his father). </p>
<p>@hyeo- It’s like that ONLY if you let it be. I have no intention of getting married in a church with ANY of those traditions. I also wasn’t allowed to legally marry about half of my previous partners so that played a huge role in my view of marriage. If it weren’t for the tax benefits and such, I’d have no interest in a traditional, legal marriage. My religion views a “marriage” as the merging of souls for life. That is what I am interested in- not the piece of paper or whatnot. </p>
<p>I brought this up with my boyfriend today, just to see what he would say about the issue. I asked him if he was planning on asking my father. He said he doesn’t know because my father scares him. He also said that he thought it would be weird to ask my parents since I am so independent. I hope he doesn’t ask my father. Knowing my dad, he would say no just to screw with him.</p>
<p>I think that for me the issue is more the guy proposing, now that I think about it. (But also dislike the idea of engagement rings if only the woman wears it. I’d be totally on board with both members of the couple wearing them. And I know that’s an out there point of view).</p>
<p>The thing is, even with the man going to both of the woman’s parents to let them know his intentions, I still think there’s a little bit of that “transfer of ownership” tradition lingering if the woman is not having the same conversation with his parents to reassure them that she’ll love and cherish and take care of him for the rest of his life. In my ideal situation, the couple would have that conversation with both parents after being engaged. Or each member with the opposite parents – it could be a good way to get to know them. I just don’t understand why the man is doing all of it.</p>
<p>eireann, I agree with you. If it’s a “nice tradition” why wouldn’t the woman also talk to the man’s parents? My sister did exactly what you describe: after the engagement, they both met with both sets of parents. Also, many of my male friends have worn engagement rings as well. I don’t like jewelry, but if I did that’s what I would do :-)</p>
<p>^^S1 and GF also talked to both sets of parents together when they made it official. Also spent hard-earned money going to visit each side of the family. Considering that there are several grandparents who will be unable to attend the wedding for health reasons, this was very thoughtful on their parts and much appreciated by those family members.</p>
<p>H did not ask my dad ( or mom) for permission when he proposed 32 years ago. My parents and I would have thought it was silly and I still feel the same way.</p>
<p>I was not “given away” at my wedding. I was escorted down the aisle by both of my parents. H was escorted by both of his parents. I hope that my kids will do the same when the time comes.</p>
<p>I’ve noticed lately that a lot of couples are exchanging gifts, some of which include engagement rings and some of which don’t. One prospective bride I know bought her groom a top of the line golf clubs which, I hear, he an expect to have for the rest of his life. She got a lovely ring of her choosing.</p>
<p>28 years ago my dad said NO when my future husband talked to him about us getting married. It was really pretty awful… and caused no end of grief between him and my parents over the years. He and I divorced after 23 years of marriage, but it is still causing bad blood. Ex-H is considering not attending D1’s college graduation this spring because my parents will be there. </p>
<p>Ex-H did it because I encouraged him to… knowing what I know now, I would NEVER encourage a man to do this (especially not with my father – but I know there are others out there like him). Those who say the woman is the one who has the sole right to say yes or no are on the right track.</p>
<p>This is a bit reducilus. It’s just a polite gesture for a man to talk to the parents for their blessing. And if the guy is close enough to the girl then they are very close to the parents too. I can guarantee you my boyfriend will be discussing and asking for my parents blessing</p>
<p>^ Then that’s right for your relationship. Again, I’d be a bit irritated if my guy did that because it shows how little he knows me. Different strokes.</p>
It’s an usurpation of my role as an independent woman and daughter.</p></li>