<p>Skater94, why do you assume the potential fiance is close to the parents? A lot of people end up in relationships with people in distant cities (or even countries) where the parents don’t have a lot opportunity to get to know the bf/gf. Or some people don’t have a close relationship with their parents even if they live nearby. And some parents might have an issue with the bf/gf’s ethnicity, race, or socio economic background, which could nix a close relationship with the parents.</p>
<p>It sounds like you know your parents will say yes, so it is easy for you to call others “reducilis” (I assume you mean ridiculous). It is also “polite” for the parents to say yes, but there are plenty of situations where that doesn’t/wouldn’t happen. Having been there through painful experience, I would say be careful with the idea of allowing anyone (even your parents) to get in the middle of the transaction that you and this other person will have to live with day in and day out for the rest of your lives.</p>
<p>In Judaism, it is customary for the bride’s parents and groom’s parents to each walk their child down the aisle to the wedding canopy. I liked the idea of parents “bringing” a child to his/her marriage day and found it more to my sensibilities than being “given away.” YMMV.</p>
<p>Oh my! When my father was dying, my now H spoke to him about his wanting to marry me. It had nothing to do with permission. I was 30 at the time! It had a lot to do with their relationship, my father’s impending death and my H’s desire to share his feelings for me with my dad. And perhaps give my dad some joy in his last days. (My mom died a decade earlier.)
With family of 7 daughters, this was not new to my dad as all of my BILs spoke to my dad about marrying my sisters - after of course deciding with their respective intendeds. Dad appeared to all the world an intimidating guy - but he wasn’t. One BIL couldn’t even speak! Dad just gave him a drink and shook his hand.
My H and I married a year after my dad died and I had my FIL escort me done the aisle. No giving away - just including H’s family in the service. We only had a best man, maid of honor and a flower girl in the wedding party.
To each his own, I guess, but these events make up the stories of my family’s lives.</p>
<p>This made me think of my inlaws–at their 50th wedding anniversary, my FIL proudly brought out a Red Devil vacuum cleaner that he purchased for my MIL. I really thought it very sad that the only thing my FIL could think of to celebrate their life together was a vacuum cleaner. He wasn’t the type who’d think of flowers or jewelry, so I guess it was a gift that he felt was appropriate.</p>
<p>When Mrs. Turbo and I got married 26 years ago we had allocated a few hundred dollars for cheapie wedding rings (Service Merchandise, OMG). Unfortunately, Mrs. Turbo was (is) a soap opera-holic and wanted a VCR to record her soaps during grad school (no TIVO, grr). So we bought a nice VCR and to this day never bought wedding bands/rings/etc. </p>
<p>We also never told her parents (middle of nowhere, Asia) or mine (middle of nowhere, Europe) till a month or two after…</p>
<p>This year we’re celebrating our 30 years together with an Alaska cruise - I thought of buying her a nice doohickey or two but I need a superwide zoom lens for my Nikon DSLR… </p>
<p>Unless the spouse feels the exact same way, this tells me much more about the reluctant spouse ( namely that he or she is self- centered and oppositional)than it does about the so-called gift industry.</p>
<p>^^^ I can’t agree. Maybe the reluctant spouse is just plain practical; or maybe she’s cynical about how brilliantly Hallmark, Zales, FTD, etc., exploit the ideal of romantic love so that it means a very reliable income stream. If the spouse isn’t self-centered or oppositional himself (or herself), the spouse should honor an anniversary with something that will make his or her partner happy. That could just be a nice walk together, couldn’t it, or something equally low-key? A friend of mine makes her husband a lasagna every year on their anniversary; he makes her a berry pie. They don’t usually indulge in high-calorie foods, so these are special tokens.</p>
<p>If a Hallmark makes you happy, that’s great. If lasagna does it for you, perfect! The only thing that matters is that it’s communicated to the partner. My issue with the proposal thing was that often a guy will propose without a lot of partner input, so the most well-intentioned guy who really knows his partner could get it wrong because there is so much background noise about the issue.</p>
<p>The best “romantic” gift I ever received was a weeping cherry tree. Which is certainly not to everyone’s taste, but I feel showered with love every spring when Ashley blooms. It’s about what makes each person happy, but intentions should come into play because anyone can get something wrong. Not everyone is a natural gift giver. Some people are gift tone deaf.</p>
<p>My point is that it’s self centered <em>behavior</em> ( OK, I won’t label the person) to put one’s own tastes and preferences above those of the person you want to please, within reason and within a budget. Cooking a meal or spending time together are wonderful, too. </p>
<p>As for the original topic, I think it depends on the traditions of the family, the preferences of the couple, the relationships involved, and the circumstances . We were local at the time and visited with both families shortly afterward to share the news with everyone in person.</p>
I actually think it is self centered to reject a man you love and who is otherwise perfect for you because he didn’t propose correctly. I’d say the same thing to a brat who wanted a mega-extravagant proposal, too. LIke the wedding, the proposal shouldn’t be all about the bride. Generally speaking, it takes two people to get married.</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone here ever said they would reject a proposal because someone ask the dad for a woman’s hand. One thing is being angry about it and another one is rejecting the guy!</p>
<p>But I do think it would make me question whether I should marry a guy that knows me so little. For example, a very good friend (male) is very shy, introverted, and has always preferred people in small doses, maybe 5 people at a time. An ex organized a 100+ people surprise party for him and she was so offended that he was not enjoying himself it and tried to get out there as soon as possible. They broke up soon after. They had been dating for over a year, and he realized she didn’t know him well at all, since that is something he clearly didn’t like (and had told her so). Was he self centered for not liking the huge party? It’s not like they had just met, she should have known better. It’s the same about asking a dad for her daughter’s hand in marriage. If someone is proposing and knows the other person feels this tradition is something she doesn’t like because it comes from the notion that a woman is property, and then goes ask the dad before telling her, why is it self centered if she is upset?</p>
You didn’t say it, but go back and re-read the thread. You’ll see what I mean.</p>
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It’s not self centered AT ALL if he “knows the other person feels” something. It’s expecting the partner to know without having been told that would be problematic.</p>
<p>Any smart man would not do something like that without asking first how you feel about that, in the same way I would not invite my boyfriend’s mom to his graduation as a “surprise” without asking whether he would like her to come.</p>
<p>Lesson: if you are getting serious with someone get to know them before you move on to the next stage.</p>
I disagree. There is a lot of pressure on men in terms of the proposal and there are all sorts of expectations and cultural things that come into play. The most well meaning man could lose his way in the jungle of proposing and planning a wedding.</p>
<p>If I had specifically told someone that I was against " the blessing" and they did it anyway, how I felt about it would depend on a few things: how clear I had made my feelings on the subject originally, if there had been a two way discussion of the topic, how long ago, if I thought they remembered the conversation, and if it seemed like a one time out of character thing or reflective of a pattern of behavior. At that point, I might be anything from appreciative and thrilled regardless, to puzzled, or upset - it would really depend on the circumstances.</p>
<p>As far as gifts - I was always taught that one should appreciate sincerely anything that is given or done on one’s behalf with good intentions. But I also think it says something about a person who is unreasonable and hard nosed on the subject.</p>
<p>zoosermom, I think you missed the last line of the post you quoted:</p>
<p>“Lesson: if you are getting serious with someone get to know them before you move on to the next stage.”</p>
<p>It seems to me if you are getting serious enough to ask someone for their hand in marriage you should know enough about them to know if they would be okay with you going to their parents first, for permission or blessing or however you want to frame it. </p>
<p>Though if I liked the young man, I would tell him that I’d love it if he and my daughter returned to ask for my blessing together. And I also expect you both to show up at your parents place and ask for their blessing. And I promise I won’t tell her you showed up asking for my blessing without her. (And I would strongly suspect the only reason he showed up without her was because his misguided but well meaning mother told him to.)</p>
<p>And yes, I would have turned my present fiancee down if he were silly enough to ask my parents first. But then again, I wouldn’t be in love with him if he were that type of guy.</p>
<p>My husband and I did discuss marriage and engagement before he actually proposed. I knew it was coming but didn’t know how. And it was pretty unique.</p>
<p>I did tell him, however, not to buy a ring to surprise me. If I were going to wear a ring every day for the rest of my life, I wanted to have a hand in choosing it! What if I didn’t like what he bought? (Yes, I wanted a ring. Sorry, folks.) We went and chose the ring together. And we stayed within our budget.</p>
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<p>We’re celebrating the same anniversary in the same way! Isn’t that weird?</p>
<p>A thumbs-up to Salander and chedva and others, who want each person to have their wishes respected.
I think its a red flag if someone says “no surprise parties”, and the other not only does that, but makes it huge. When last engaged, I felt I wasn’t listened to, even on small things. I said no red roses on V-day; too cliche and $$$$ on that day, and he was surprised I wasn’t pleased.
I’ve known couples who fight over wedding plans and budgets. When one person is acting like a brat, or the parents are too demanding (even when not footing the bill), its all signs of what is to come. From my experience, if you cannot make any headway talking alone or with a mediator, run…</p>
<p>I do like jewelry (but want to be present when purchased), but also like living things. I use to send my mom rose bushes for MO’s day, and she gave me an orange tree when I bought present house. She’s been gone a decade, but the oranges are eaten daily when in season.</p>