<p>anitaw - you must have missed post #14</p>
<p>csshsm post #14
</p>
<p>These kinds of things exist everywhere. Better to get good coaching in how to deal with bullies and mean girls (by way of a good counselor who can work in one-on-one sessions with your daughter) than to change schools.</p>
<p>However, thank you for helping me remember one of the main reasons why I switched my girls out of the tony private school at the end of eighth grade, to the larger public high school! Girls in a fishbowl setting like that acquire power out of proportion to reality. And, the administration, in my opinion, reacts according to the financial power of the individual student. A bully with super-rich or super-powerful parents? They won’t do a thing. A kid on scholarship? They’ll be all over it. Sorry to be so cynical, but I just felt from my observations that this is how private schools operate. They are desperate for large donations and their treatment of girls results from that fact.</p>
<p>Girls in a fishbowl setting like that acquire power out of proportion to reality. And, the administration, in my opinion, reacts according to the financial power of the individual student. A bully with super-rich or super-powerful parents? They won’t do a thing. A kid on scholarship? They’ll be all over it.</p>
<p>actually I would say it depends on the school
My daughter had an issue with a boy in middle school,she is pretty quiet, and was an easy target to be teased and harrassed as she responded as hoped.
I sat down with the counselor and we discussed it, the boy was talked to, but later expelled. ( he was not on aid I assume given the status of his parents in the community, my daughter was on a large scholarship)
My daughter did have other friends who had transferred out, because of the way they felt the school dealt with harrassing issues, but I wasn’t aware of any problems after that.</p>
<p>Very sad to read of patient’s experiences with a private school kowtowing to wealthier families in terms of letting their children behave as bullies. I’ve heard of this happening locally at one school, but wanted to reassure the OP that it is NOT the case universally, and has not been the case at the two schools my kids have attended. One good reason to visit the new school and to talk about the problem now will be to determine if the school is prepared to address the issues satisfactorily, irrespective of the wealth or power of the offending student’s family. If the school doesn’t take this sort of thing seriously, and isn’t prepared to take appropriate action, I would have big questions about sending my kid there.</p>
<p>My son just graduated from a small school (93 in his class, only 41 boys). Although he was there for ten years, this past year the class bully made his life miserable. Typically, the boy had a lot of power and convinced others to follow him in shunning my son. </p>
<p>In your situation, I am wondering if you have access to anyone who knows the inside scoop on this group of girls. Does the offending girl have a lot of social power? If so, she might be able to prevent most girls from being friends with your daughter. Or perhaps the girl is more of a loner, in which case you might not need to worry.</p>
<p>I’m guessing that the administration already knows about this girl (the boy who bullied my son was well-understood by teachers starting in kindergarten but his behavior never rose to the level of expulsion) but there is often little that can be done because bullies know not to provoke kids in front of teachers.</p>
<p>The very small size of your daughter’s school concerns me, in fact it is the most important factor. It is well-known that in a small school, an entire class can be “infected” by one or two bad apples. The negatives of my son’s experiences this past year outweighed the positives of the school’s more rigorous academics and small class sizes.</p>
<p>my daughter graduated from a small school as well- 18 in her graduating ( half girls)class, and I suppose tht one person could make everyone miserable, but with such a small school, it was also easier to keep on top of the dynamic in the school.
I do prefer a larger school however, especially in retrospect 
My D didn’t really “find her people” until she went to college- but the waiting made it that more appreciated.</p>
<p>
Well, both my kids went to small public high schools (around 500-700 students) where they had very positive experiences and many good friends, and I would not minimize the value of that experience. Of course you can’t go back and change your own child’s experiences, and the available choices --I am glad it worked out for your daughter – I am only responding the implication that it is o.k. for a teenager to “wait” to find her social comfort zone because it will be worth it in the end. My point is that a lot of emotional and social growth occurs during the high school years and kids are also at a precarious age - while one kid may tough it out, another may succomb to stress or pressures – grades may drop, the kid may develop an eating disorder or begin abusing alcohol or drugs, etc. I’m not saying that would happen to all or even most kids, but I am saying that social isolation or ostracizing is extremely painful and kids deal with that pain in different ways. </p>
<p>Public high schools can also be an unpleasant place for many kids, so it really isn’t a public vs. private thing. But the point is that in high school the social environment can be as important as the academic. Csshsm has been fortunate enough to get a warning sign before her daughter starts the school, and I think that she should think very carefully about the situation. I personally was miserable in high school, and as a parent I have fortunately been able to guide my kids toward schools that were a good social fit. Academically, neither of my kid’s schools was anything to brag about – but it worked out fine there, too. I found public high schools can serve students with a wide range of abilities, and that the academically stronger kids get tracked into honors classes and later AP courses, where there is plenty of challenge. There is something to be said for being at the top academically as well – especially when it comes time for college admissions. So I personally would put social needs above academics when choosing a high school.</p>
<p>Well, I too have been bullied/harrassed which started in jr. hi (public)
It was an ugly/hurtful scene for awile…but I got over it with the support of my family and new friends/activities…really, why would you even want to identify with girls like that? Yes, they are insecure and troubled - and most times, so are their families…take a closer look. The outside fringe of hanger-ons are as bad, if not worse, and just stupid for doing the queens dirty work! Let your class get to know you - and always be true to yourself. It will work out in the end. A few meanies will change, but many will not.
Later, a few wrote letters of apology and stating they were just jealous…honestly, it was hard for me to understand why this was happening at the time because I never felt I deserved their treatment and had not done anything to provoke it. But…I did notice that this all happened about the time BOYS started showing an interest in me (haha) seems like so many young girls feel they are nothing without a boy to like or a relationship to “complete” them…what misguided thinking and a bad message! Think about it - Girls all of a sudden get very territorial with the boys - hoping to be liked by them, and dislike any competiton or attention diverted away from them. I still feel this was the initial cause of their behavior towards me.
The school would do nothing and teachers looked the other way, etc. Girls pull all kinds of petty c<em>rap under the radar, etc. all the time, and so do adults!.. Don’t be shocked, and you can survive. Today those same “mean girls” (across all socio/econ levels) and “wanna"bees” are basically not liked in high school, have gotten pregnant, all but failing school or dropped out, on drugs, slu</em>*y, etc…in other words, not a life I would ever want…and yet, I still feel somewhat sorry (compassion?) for them…sadly, just a few I have known changed since those jr. hi days for the better…but just a few-<br>
My parents encouraged me to apply many tactics, many which I refused; kowing I was not going to get down to “their level” or be mean myself. There are still a few I can not stand to be around today because they are just the most fakey and nasty girls.
It makes me sick to know that tons of girls go through this regularly. I do not think it has to be a “right of passage” to go through - but human nature being what it is…I doubt it will change.
Take a good hard look at the girls and THEIR moms. Seems to me that most of them are to busy to notice, trying to recreate their high school experience through the daughter, just never grew up themselves, and are about as two-faced, backstabbing, snotty wannabee adults (in our town) as their daughters are. What else would you expect from girls of these moms? If you notice yourself in that description, perhaps you might want to re-think what messages you are really sendingto/reinforcing for your daughter.
Realize this bad behavior is not acceptable - ever. What kind of culture promotes…“screw them” before they (might) do unto you? Mean kids lack boundaries…which obviously they have never been taught. There are many depressed, insecure, and scared young girls out there. Growing up is tough!
Parents - spend time with your girls, talk with them, invite trust and companionship, but be their mom…and NOT a best friend. Do not indulge this bad behavior.
By the way, I will have my choice of schools to attend, at the top of my class, popular, well-liked, a good person, and most of all~ happy~…my sweetest revenge to all you mean girls-haha:) :) Oh, and did I mention I still have my pick of the boys?
My advice - stick up for yourself. Really, do you think that little of yourself that you would want to be associated with girls that treat others so badly? You are better than that!<br>
Then comes “karma” time - haha. I do not think some of them will ever change…too bad…they will live a bitter, miserable, and unfullfilled life with messy relationships.
I am sorry this is happening to your daughter, but it too will pass…let her get through it with your support and she will be stronger for it. Good Luck!</p>
<p>The above post was great!! THanks for typing all that up…</p>
<p>Ditto! Thank you! </p>
<p>
Yep. No kidding. Currently in a bad situation with a someone who had formerly been a wonderful friend. When I asked a mutual friend about it (he just knew that things were rough between us), he said that she doesn’t like competition. 200 miles away, and I was still “competition.” Had the same situation with former high school friends - very supportive of them in their relationships, but the second I acquired a boyfriend (in college), the cat fur started flying. You really have to picture the SPCA during a hurricane to get an idea of what it was like.</p>
<p>“The best revenge is living a good life.” Revenge can be slow in coming, but it’ll come. Eventually. This really will pass - trust me on that. I do wish, so much, that I could have known in high school that it would all get so much better.</p>
<p>-I am glad it worked out for your daughter – I am only responding the implication that it is o.k. for a teenager to “wait” to find her social comfort zone because it will be worth it in the end.</p>
<p>I don’t think I implied that at all- because I also said
I do prefer a larger school however, especially in retrospect
Although we were advised against it by teachers and staff at her previous school, my younger daughter attends an inner city public with about 420 in her graduating class.
It works out fairly well for her, there are many avenues to get involved, she has friends from the sport teams she is on,friends from her remedial math class where she is the only caucasian student, and friends from her AP classes, where the students often come from the districts gifted programs.
FOr my older daughter, she was involved a lot in school,did the school musical since 6th grade, added vocal ensemble and a sport team as a senior, but her big outside committment was her volunteer job, where the bulk of her friends came from.
She did have friends at her school, although most were either boys, or a grade younger, and she did feel comfortable enough to “come out” in early 11th grade to her classmates, which I think says a lot about how she felt there, ( considering her classmates knew before I did!)</p>
<p>It is really interesting hearing discussion with women in my book group, they mostly have daughters who are rising 10th graders, and most attend the same public high school ( about 250 in a class) YOu would think that that would be a good size for a school, but this particular class seems really affected by a core group of teens, many seem to be much more interested in acting like they are 22 ( boys-sex-cars-party) than my younger daughter and her friends who are a year older.</p>
<p>BUt I think my daughter and her friends, while not asocial, are comfortable just doing stuff with each other, like today they are watching the soccer game 
and swimming in one girls pool
WHen I was in high school, I would have felt that anything that didn’t involve boys- with or without the possiblity of substances/sex, was dreary
I do remember girls vieing for power though, and had awfully cutting comments made to me by people who I considered friends, and I remember not really knowing where that came from, so I ignored it, which actually worked out fairly well, as I think for them, it was coming out of insecurity and not really out of a desire to * attack* me</p>
<p>My Ds went to a small school. 60 per grade, for middle school, no matter how wonderful a school was, if it didn’t have many more kids, they would not go, they wanted to have the chance to get away from people who were annoying, and in a bigger pond, those little fish don’t have as much “power” </p>
<p>Sure, at any school no matter the size, you will have bullies, etc, but in a school that is a bit larger, its easier to find your niche</p>
<p>At my Ds school, “leadership” was based on who was on the “A” sports teams…and those parents never “saw” how their daughters were</p>
<p>We did see the boys bullying, but it was usually physical, so it was more obvious and easier to deal with, and you could go to the parents, bobby hit sammy, but with the girls, it was easier for the parents to deny it was their daughter being mean, and mean girls can cry on cue…its like an art</p>
<p>I hope this works out so your D can go to the school she wants to and have a good experience there, and you’ve gotten some good advice about going to the administration to try to get a resolution and about teaching your D how to deal with Queen Bees and other bullies. </p>
<p>But I would be very leery of looking at D going to the school in terms of winning or losing or getting a return on your investment. One of the most difficult things to learn in life is when to cut your losses. Women especially can feel pressured to hold on to situations and relationships that are not functional, even abusive, and “try to make them work” especially when money or face is on the line. However this situation gets resolved, you want D to have it as a good model of how to handle situations where she feels she is being treated badly.</p>
<p>Solution: remove the harasser from your daughter’s ‘friend’ list. Oh noes, the number of her friends might go down from 254 to 253.</p>
<p>My D had a similar experiene to JusZkauz. She was an ‘early bloomer’ which caused some problems within her girl group. She stayed friends with them (some going back to 2nd grade) most of freshman year but also starting hangin out with some other kids (drama club, older kids, etc.) which caused even more trouble within her group and by the middle of Soph year she was an outcast. This lasted all through high school. She did make other friends, mostly older, which worked out great until her senior year when all her closest friends had already graduated. She seemed ok at the time but tells me now that she did not enjoy high school at all, and I’m sad that she missed out on alot of the Senior fun becuase she didn’t have a special group to do things with.</p>
<p>I think it is so important to get off to a good start at the beginning of high school. If I were you, I’d try to get out of the contract–possibly using evidence that your daughter has been “threatened” by this mean student. It will be so much more convenient (and cheaper) for you and your family, too. Never worry about “letting the mean girl win.” She’s a loser and she’s spreading her misery. Avoiding that misery makes your daughter the winner. If you are stuck with the contract, AND IF your daughter is willing, I’d let her go there for one year, tough it out–if she doesn’t like it by the end of the year, let her transfer to the public school in 10th grade. If she feels intimidated and really wants to go to the public school this year–let her. (My bro.'s story–he went to a private elementary school–by 8th grade he was teacher’s pet, nerd, science fair winner, poor athlete, beat up by jocks–he was offered a scholarship to the attached private high school, (class of about 200–and same mean kids from 8th grade), but my parents said no thanks–(though worried his situation might get even worse) and sent him to the huge (classes of 700+) public high school–where he knew no one, but found his niche in speech & debate, technical theater, etc. He even survived gym class. Another plus-- the bigger school had better science labs, more advanced classes, etc. At the large school there was room for everyone–and the kids were more accepting and tolerant–not a bunch of snobs. I’m a homeschooler–so glad my teenage daughter hasn’t had to go through this. I have a younger D who went to public school and got squeezed between 2 mean girls who were rivals. Though I didn’t want D to play with either, she maintained a relationship with both–I favored the one with the nicer mom (who was originally the meaner girl!)–thinking the girl would get nicer, was going through a phase, deserved another chance, etc.–and she did get much nicer. . .BTW these were FIRST graders!</p>
<p>There are many good answers here. I, too, will cast my vote with the group that says cut the kid a break and get her away from the mean girls. I was bullied in high school, and I think it affected my self-esteem for decades. Some 14-year-olds might be up to the challenge of surviving and learning from standing up to the mean group, but I think it’s too much to ask of most. You know your kid best.</p>
<p>One problem with choosing to attend or not attend a school based on the presence of a “mean girl” is that she may transfer or not even attend the private school at all. In our town, an especially mean girl was headed to a nearby private school. Three nice girls changed their decisions to attend the school strictly because of her! (I never met her and my own d never had a problem with her, so I really can’t say how awful their expereinces with her were.) </p>
<p>Fast-forward to September: Mean girl is sitting in homeroom at our local public h.s.</p>
<p>I have a feeling that mean girl never really had earned admission to the private school. But she used to wear their school sweatshirt around the middle school & brag about going there. So, beware. Don’t let one mean girl keep your d from enjoying what may be a great experience.</p>
<p>I would love to hear from the OP
I realize it is confusing
but what I think the facts are are these</p>
<p>the two girls know each other from other settings and have been mildly competitive
The “mean” girl already attends the private school
The daughter would like to attend the private school despite expense and hassle to family, at least until the mean girls issue surfaced</p>
<p>I haven’t noticed an update from OP
I think this is tricky
SInce the family was agreed to the private school despite expense and hassle- becuase of the daughters wishes, it is going to be difficult to manuever a change if the daughter has now changed her mind.
I am not thinking in terms of “one girl winning”, but more along the lines of quitting before you have started if it seems it might be a touch uncomfortable.
I agree that social is a huge part of high school, and very important.
I would even agree that to reverse plans may be the “right” thing to do.
But it needs to be handled delibrately and made clear that getting bailed out, isn’t going to happen on regular basis.</p>
<p>It’s OP. We have been on the road getting daughter settled in Summer Program. She loves it, but she has already called home a couple of times to ask if she will get to go to Public School. I have really appreciated all your responses. Their diversity convinces me that this is not a “right” or “wrong” issue, but one that needs to be handled carefully based on the parties involved. After giving the idea of going to the school with the whole story some thought, I decided that I might endanger “mean girl’s” position as a scholarship student. She holds the same scholarship my daughter won (she got it a year earlier), and it is based on academics, faith, and service. I do not know how the school would react; probably they would not consider this so serious as to endanger her standing, but what if they did? I would feel really bad for her parents. Now that we are back home, I am going to talk to the headmaster of their K-8 school since he knows all parties and schools involved and is a wonderful person. I am also going to talk to one of the girl’s mothers in the class whom I know and see if she can give me some insight into how prevalent this sort of behavior is. Her daughter has been there since K. I also have to admit to myself that I would love to see her go to Public School and simplify my life, so I have to be careful that I am doing what she needs rather than what makes my life easier, in all senses except financially.</p>