<p>[Nation</a> & World | State schools lose $13.2 million math and science grant over union laws | Seattle Times Newspaper](<a href=“http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004393644_webgrants05m.html]Nation”>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004393644_webgrants05m.html)</p>
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<p>Whose needs come first re: public education in Washington?
Adults or children?</p>
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<p>How sad that this outside funding source didn’t respect the school’s prior contracts in place with its own employees. -</p>
<p>How sad that despite mandates that math science education be improved in WA, that the state has decided that we aren’t going to require math testing to graduate for the class of 2008, despite NCLB, being in place for years & that the Seattle district has yet to find a solution for the low quality of math instruction in its’ schools. despite years of additional studies and training.</p>
<p>[Education</a> | Gregoire delays WASL math, science requirements | Seattle Times Newspaper](<a href=“http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/education/2003698697_webwasl08m.html]Education”>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/education/2003698697_webwasl08m.html)
[Local</a> News | New-math curriculum stirs passions among Bellevue parents, teachers | Seattle Times Newspaper](<a href=“http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003785645_mathwars12e.html]Local”>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003785645_mathwars12e.html)</p>
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[Freshmen’s</a> weak math skills worry UW faculty](<a href=“http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/353199_math29.html]Freshmen’s”>http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/353199_math29.html)</p>
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<p>At least, the employees did not walk out … as they tend to do in that area when they do not like a contract.</p>
<p>How sad parents do not have the choice to make the money flow to the schools they want for their children. Monopoly is such a beautiful thing!</p>
<p>Nothing the unions do surprises me. Yes, they were necessary, but many years ago, I dealt with them when I was representing management. Let me tell you…in one case, we plead poverty, meaning that the employer couldn’t afford any kind of a raise or increase in benefits. We had to open the company’s books to the union. Its CPAs and attorneys agreed that the officers were receiveing fair, not extravagant salaries, and that the company was just barely breaking even. However, because they were just voted in, they had to take a stand. They went out on strike, the factory closed its doors, and 250 people were out of work. Of course the employer was blamed. Then, there was the time that we negotiated a very good contract on behalf of the emplopyer, and after it was in place a couple months, the employer wanted to increase the vacation pay (high absentee rate at the company, which didn’t want to move, but give back to the community in a changing neighborhood - 2% of yearly earnings for a vacation week’s pay) and payscale. We told him not to do anything until we contacted the union. Union refused. Said it would look like the increase came from the employer (which it did) and not from them, so no dice. Then there was the time that we reached our agreement in the backroom, and then had to put on a show for the employees on the committee. The script was written in the backroom, and we came out and yelled and screamed and then worked out the agreement that the employees felt was hard-won. And these are just a few of the examples that I saw. So nothing would surprise me ever again. And for those who think I am anti-union, this was a job, and I had been a union member, and had no allegiance either way. At least I knew where most of the employers were coming from, but me eyes really opened up about the unions.</p>
<p>How sad it is that the union turned down money for its members rather than find a way to meet the grant requirements.</p>
<p>So basically they turned down free money at the cost of the children? What the heck?!</p>
<p>the way I understand it- although I believe the other states were able to reach a compromise with their unions- the stumbling block may have been that they do not have pay for performance or subject matter, but collective bargaining.
Washington state law requires that teachers not be paid directly as NMSI wanted to do.
I have to admit- I think that does a disservice to the math and science teachers and to the students to lose this resource.
[WA</a> high schools lose $13 million grant for AP teachers | Education News | KING5.com | News for Seattle, Washington](<a href=“http://www.king5.com/education/stories/NW_050608EDB_education_grant_SW.d47ceb1f.html]WA”>http://www.king5.com/education/stories/NW_050608EDB_education_grant_SW.d47ceb1f.html)</p>
<p>Sorry, but blaming this on a law is a cop out - who pushed those laws that require the money be paid to the unions? Not likely to be the parents, and I doubt the legislators made this up their own…</p>
<p>And can you seriously doubt that if the union had wanted to find a solution under the terms of the grant (and remember, the grantor is the one giving the money thus sets the terms), with a state representative at the table, that the money would now be finding its way into the teachers paychecks?</p>
<p>Oh I agree- that it is a cop out.</p>
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<p>Well, let’s hope for many more millions dangled in front of groups that won’t budge and change archaic and extortionist practices. The problem with private funds is that it’s a lot harder to bribe your way to the vault. </p>
<p>The lesson here for NMSI is that they should revisit their decision to even try to work through a public school system that is held hostage by CBAs.</p>
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<p>This part I understand. The teachers’ position is that they are not selling shoes but are teaching students. They don’t want to be paid on commission, so that the teacher of 30 students who make many 5’s on the AP exam gets more pay than the teacher of 30 who make many 4’s.</p>
<p>I would LOVE to have student AP test scores factored in to my compensation. Bring it on!</p>
<p>Okeydokey. You’re probably a great teacher of AP students!</p>
<p>But suppose next year, some corporation comes along, offering to fund an IB program. The IB teacher next door to you gets extra compensation for high grades but at a rate twice as good as your AP students net for your paycheck. Would you two teachers start fighting over who teaches what next year?</p>
<p>Does the teacher who teaches regular-track students, but magnificently, get no tips–just salary? </p>
<p>Suppose the teacher’s subject is Music, History or English, rather than Math or Science. Is anyone rushing in to enlarge the Music, History or English teacher’s salary? If so, it’s probably the National Endowment for the Humanities, and they can’t pay as much as industries seeking future employees trained in math or science. Tough luck. </p>
<p>These are some of the issues that cause many teachers unions to reject merit pay on principle. I’m not saying these are brilliant arguments, but they’re the arguments I’ve heard.</p>
<p>Me too western dad. Just remember I get the best of the AP students and the other teacher gets the ones who don’t test as well LOL</p>
<p>Now if they measured individual progress of my low achieving students over a course of a year and those results are factored in, then we are talking the real game.</p>
<p>I really should go and find the citations on this, but it was in Punished by Rewards by Alfie Kohn- <a href=“http://www.alfiekohn.org%5B/url%5D”>www.alfiekohn.org</a> is his website.</p>
<p>When people are given a reward for teaching something “better” they are more likely to become frustrated and annoyed when their students don’t perform. </p>
<p>To relate it to something else- who is a better doctor, someone who loves his/her profession, or someone who just wants the money?</p>
<p>REALLY, we do NOT want our teachers getting merit pay. It won’t improve education. It won’t help students- the students would just become little robots expected to get 5s just so teachers could get more money. It would put more pressure to just ‘teach to the test’ instead of promoting critical thinking skills and love/interest of the subject. </p>
<p>Yes, it’s not good that they lost the grant, but I think it’s a good thing that the teachers are aware that the merit money would hurt the students and the schools, and are intelligent enough to reject it because of that.</p>
<p>(And, erm, for the record- I do want to become a teacher and I realize that extra money is a good thing, but if you were just in it for the money, teaching is NOT the profession to choose, haha.)</p>
<p>Paying3,</p>
<p>Those are reasonable arguments. I would like to see merit pay not just for AP students, but for non-AP students, as well. Again, bring it on!</p>
<p>Marcus doesn’t get paid according to his ability and dedication, which I think is a shame, because he is dedicated to the bone to Garfield and to teaching these students, despite attempts by Seattle’s most monied private schools to snare him.</p>
<p>[Northwest</a> Asian Weekly: Marcus Tsutakawa: an unsung hero](<a href=“http://www.nwasianweekly.com/20062426/editorial20062426.htm]Northwest”>http://www.nwasianweekly.com/20062426/editorial20062426.htm)</p>
<p>I don’t see how we can argue on the one hand that we need more money for educators, (even though they make more per hour with more benefits than the parents of their students) in order to get dedicated, qualified teachers, but on the other hand we don’t want any increase, unless all the teachers get the same increase despite ability or lack thereof.</p>
<p>But, emeraldkity4, you can’t measure the teacher’s “ability or lack thereof” through the AP test results of their students. The teacher can work double hours and prepare his/her head off but if one class has students with afterschool jobs they might not do as well as the class full of students with private tutors at home. So many outside variables affect student test outcomes, in addition to how hard the teacher works to teach the subject matter. </p>
<p>Think about police officers assigned to different types of neighborhoods. Who deserves more pay? The one who is assigned to a poverty neighborhood (where he has to stay extremely alert, from moment to moment…) or the one assigned to a calm, upscale neighborhood? After all, the cop in the upscale neighborhood is “responsible” for producing great statistics and reducing crime, right? (Not).</p>