So Hunt saying someone is “well spoken” or “put it very well” or just plain “wow, love the way you put that” is not miroagression, but saying someone is articulate is? As I said earlier, I would not be likely to use that exact term, but would be likely to express admiration for someone who is well spoken, especially if they explained something when I was floundering a bit.
Of course tall people get tired of being asked if they play basketball. And others get tired of fighting stereotypes based on gender, race, ethnicity,disability, or physical appearance. And we should fight against those assumptions. But that doesn’t mean that every compliment is an aggressive statement in disguise.
I agree that it is often possible to tell by context or by the way someone says it. Wow, you’re so articulate said with a smirk after a mundane meeting is likely different than the same comment after the same person was particularly so. That doesn’t translate as well to a message board.
Good observation. At the bottom of all these is our society’s perceived desirable/valuable quality of a person is dependent on the gender of the person. I guess this could be true also in the dating market: Many would perceive a certain kind of men as “alpha males” while some other kind “beta males”, Mr. Nice deserved to be “friend-zoned.” The expectation for the females could be different.
Yes, I think so (although I think “you are very well spoken” might be pretty close, in a way that “that was very well put” would not be).
Context matters a lot here. Black people are stereotyped as not being articulate, as speaking poorly, etc. So it’s not surprising that a black person might hear “articulate (for a black person).” I don’t think that is nearly as likely to happen with “wow, love the way you put that.”
And these things are on a spectrum. I don’t think “Gosh, you sure are articulate” is as bad as “You must have gotten in because of affirmative action.”
Here’s an example from my own experience: I am (somewhat) offended when somebody uses “Jesus!” or “Jesus Christ!” as an exclamation in my presence. I think it’s kind of insensitive for people to do this, when a bit of contemplation should tell them that is likely to be offensive to a fairly large number of people. But I don’t think it’s “aggressive” toward me–and that’s why I don’t think “microaggression” is a good term for what we’re talking about. It’s a lack of sensitivity to the fact that other people see and experience things differently from ourselves.
Considering most of these statements are made to total strangers, maybe you should think that the person you are addressing could potentially be a state debate champion or top mathematician at a flagship school, just because they are of color or women, why are you assuming they are not? In that case, maybe you can complement them on their actual achievement, like really wowing an audience with a great speech or doing a fantastic job on analysis or making the dean’s list or doing some great research project.
Compliments for sort of average performance would seem to indicate that you are so biased as to see that their color or their sex makes this really shocking to you. I can’t imagine getting a talk before my math exam how I am as good as a man, I might do poorly just because I am fuming …
If I am not personally proud of a particular achievement and you are complimenting me, I would think you might just be seeing the girl rather than the mathematician, presenter, or whatever.
And from my management training, remember compliments about someone to their management and/or teacher are much more useful to the person than just telling them “good job”. If you are really impressed, say so to the people in charge.
For a younger school aged person with say math or reading abilities that are above average, maybe say something nice, like you really got that difficult homework set done quickly, have you considered trying to get into an advanced class … and then help them get in. At that point, they can succeed and will get all the As and rewards like any other student (and you could actually help them too).
I think the “other people see and experience things different from ourselves” idea immediately discounts the possibility that they actually are seeing the truth, that many people are narrow minded and prejudicial and that as a society we are trying to move beyond that so everyone can contribute. You are potentially blaming the victim rather than realizing you may be the aggressor.
I think the mesmerizing oratorical preacher is a much more common a stereotype. And rappers, who many people consider verbally adept, and “the dozens,” the tradition upon which rap is considered to be based, according to what I’ve read.
I was thinking about the following example (which has relevance to the pronoun discussion, too):
You are throwing a dinner party, and you are inviting a bunch of people from different backgrounds, many of whom you don’t know very well. You are picking out the food–consider the following possibilities:
You simply pick food you like: bacon, shrimp, lots of nuts, nothing vegetarian. You think people are ridiculous for having food restrictions and taboos, and you consider that to be their problem.
You simply pick food you like, as in 1, but it doesn’t occur to you that some people might have restrictions. You don’t know anybody who is Kosher, or vegetarian, or who has allergies, so you just don’t think about it.
You send a message to your guests asking if any of them have any dietary restrictions that you should be aware of.
You send a message to your guests asking if any of them have any dietary restrictions or preferences that you should be aware of.
Same as 4, except after hearing back from everyone, you also send out the menu to make sure that everybody likes it.
Where, in this continuum, does a nice, sensitive person fall? Personally, I would say #3. I would say that #1 is aggressive, and #2 is insensitive. 4 and 5 are taking it a bit far, in my opinion.
You could flip this in terms of what it is reasonable to expect somebody inviting you to do.
@Hunt 3 and 4 are identical, but let’s go with this.
Taking on say microaggressive speech (the “so where are you from” or “wow that was really articulate for … you … err”)
I am a boor and it is more important for me to keep up my standard good-ol-boy speech and attitudes than whatever you are talking about and by the way, yes I am better than you
Oh, I didn’t know that these things would bother you, but wow this list of UC microaggressions makes me realize I am not perfect
3-4) let me do some more thinking about microaggression and really come up with some alternatives that make others more comfortable around me and my friends and make sure I value them as individuals
I will work towards making others learn more about microaggression
Serving only bacon is pretty hostile to anyone other than you. We are educating people over the last 10 years on food allergies, vegetarianism and glucose and dairy intolerances.
3 and 4 aren’t quite the same, because 4 adds “preferences.” I was thinking in terms of the pronoun discussion:
You are either male or female and I don’t care what anybody says.
Non-gendered? What’s that?
Anybody for whom he or she doesn’t apply? If so, I’d be happy to use “they.”
What’s your preferred pronoun? I’ll be happy to use it, whatever it may be.
Here’s a list of all the preferred pronouns for all the guests at my dinner party.
Again, in my opinion, 1 is aggressive, 2 is insensitive (based on ignorance), and 3 is sensitive enough. 4 and 5 perhaps get extra credit in the sensitivity department, but (again, in my opinion) it is not reasonable to demand that level of sensitivity.
Serving bacon isn’t “hostile” if everybody you know eats bacon.
Ha! I’m standing in a United line boarding my flight. I am on a work trip but I am dressed in jeans and a casual top. I went to get into the Group 1 lane. A man in a business suit in front of me said “are you sure you belong in this line?” I said “why yes, I’m in first class.” I was micro-aggressed! (Micro-aggressed against?)
^^ And then it’s a micro aggression for assuming they wouldn’t eat bacon because they have Jewish names. Of course just assuming they are Jewish because of the name is a micro aggression.
345: I always do #4. But then again, I utterly and irrationally loathe bananas despite having no banana-related restrictions/allergies, and so I guess I've always appreciated having the opportunity to let hosts know about that.
But that said, I don’t think the dinner party example works—that’s pre-planned, whereas most of what this thread is discussing isn’t subject to that degree of forethought.
Ha! He wasn’t even in first class - just group 1 boarding! (So that I don’t microaggress against those who don’t fly, I happened to have gotten bumped up to first. But even if I hadn’t been, I still fully belonged in the group 1 line.)
What, no low carb? Aren’t you aware of the epidemic of T2 diabetes, and that it can best be controlled–or even averted, if you have pre-diabetes–with a low carb way of eating?
I feel micro-aggressed!
Actually, I was once in a local bookstore that specialized in cookbooks, mostly high-level cookbooks, and asked the salesperson if they had any low carb cookbooks. She informed me that the owners didn’t believe in “fad” diets. I informed her that I was a dedicated cook who was also T2 and HAD to eat low carb and that it was NOT a “fad.” I was mightily pissed off.
No, from his tone he was clearly questioning me and suspected I was line jumping. Oh well. I’ll whine about his white male privilege and how dare he judge that a casually dressed woman didn’t belong in a United elite status line. Lol.
“Check your privilege … But for god’s sake, don’t check your bags!”
Ha! When my wife was pregnant and had her first “well baby checkup” (is it what it is called when a pregnant woman has her regular checkup by her OB doctor during her pregnancy?) the nurse kept asking whether we needed the government assistance (free milk, vitamins, etc.) When we said no, she kept asking us: “are you sure? It is of no cost to you.” I know she meant well, but it seems it was hard for her to believe we did not need the assistance. (We were not that rich but not that poor either.)
The health insurance policy we had back then was extremely generous. We almost did not have to pay any money other than the monthly premium for a childbirth. The insurance company later closed the door, and we jokingly said we bankrupted this health insurance company by having an insurance policy that is too good.
I don’t ask people about their food issues, because i figure if it’s a life threatening allergy, then it’s incumbent upon them to speak up.
However, having lived in a muslin country, i just NEVER serve pork to a group of people i don’t know well. Chicken is safe. Any i always have some something tasty that’s meat-free.