I wrote a post 7 pages ago, but deleted it. I had been single for years, then my HS b/f and I reconnected. When the relationship was long distance, it was good. Once I moved in with him, it fell apart. His cheapness irked me (splitting everything tho he earned twice as much). His inability to do minimal caring when I had surgery (I lived on crackers). The verbal abuse which grew monthly. I knew in a year that I would leave, but, being me, I tried to give it everything to improve the relationship.
I completely understood why his first wife left him, even giving up primary role as parent. She must have been desperate.
Maybe 25 years ago a couple of my mother group friends got divorced. For years we had gotten together a couple of times a month for drinks and dinner while our husbands or sitters kept the (very young) kids to give us a break. After a while my husband told me it worried him for me to go out with them because they were clearly looking and he hoped I wasn’t. I wasn’t. So I started a book club that met in our homes. No one ever much read the books but we still had a great time together. And it reassured my husband.
Re: counseling - I wish I had a dollar for every time I suggested it to my ex. He would do what he did to make me shut up: fly into a rage.
We could have stayed married forever if I’d kept making money at the level he was used to. Our life was like a pretty lake. Once the water drains out, all you see are the rocks and the garbage.
I don’t know about anyone else, but I opted to stay with my husband because the financial reality of my situation was that, as the higher earning spouse, I would likely lose primary custody of my children since I worked long hours and H worked from home in a much more flexible arrangement. Perhaps one difference between our situations is that my H is the father of my children. I originally planned to be a single parent by choice (didn’t marry until child #2 was a year old) but H was such a devoted father that I changed my plans. Had I not married H, I don’t think I would have married anyone. I would have stayed a single mother by choice. Marriage never attracted me as much as motherhood did.
As for the thrust of the thread, I thought that the OP was inquiring about how, why and when couples who have been married longer divorce or decide not to.
@compmom why would you assume the thread was about support for midlife divorces because of the title? There are folks on this thread who are divorced who have posted. You asked how folks know who has gone to counseling? Well many of us have friends and unfortunately we know what has happened in their marriages, not to mention some on this thread have posted their spouses refused counseling. I have found this thread very helpful even though I’ve been married 25 years and I won’t pretend it has been rosy every year. I don’t think anyone here is gossiping
" How would anyone know who does and does not have counseling?’
Since I made the comment you are likely referencing, @compmom, I’ll answer your question although I’m not sure if you want an answer or are just venting. I know they didn’t have counseling because they are people very close to me and they told me they didn’t. Not too complicated. If people don’t want to make it work, as @intparent helpfully pointed out, I understand that counseling would be a waste of time and money but when parties are stating regret about the dissolution of the marriage and were unwilling to attempt counseling, yes, it does make me wonder. Sorry if it sounded like an attack to you. It wasn’t meant to be.
@techmom99, your situation is far from what I was taking about in my previous post. I guess I was referring to long time married couples, where the wife felt she HAD to stay for financial purposes or for the children. I am sorry if you feel that the courts would rule against you, that’s not right.
There is no double standard. My boys each have a guy friend or two or three that are just shockingly attractive…doesn’t mean I want to date them (or more) and I certainly don’t sit around and “rate them.” If anything it reminds me of how fit and maybe even attractive (my husband and I were) when we were young. It’s more poignant than lecherous although if I even parse more than a quick passing thought I realize I wouldn’t want to be 18 again, no thanks not with things the way they are right now and it doesn’t mean I think less of my husband, in fact I think we’re both holding our own pretty darn good.
Second wives aren't always [younger]
. My ex had an affair with a woman closer to his age (he is 10 years older than I am). This was a woman he had dated before we married -- and in fact I found out later he dumped her for me at the time (didn't know it back then). I
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Oh this happens a LOT. With Facebook and other social media, many people are contacting former loves, chatting in PM, and then meeting up somewhere…and rekindle the flames and leave their spouses.
Just more fake…they’re in love with their 20 year old selves and memories.
@mom2collegekids, I don’t blame FB. In fact, it is unclear to me during how many of the 23 years we were married they were carrying on. Could be all of them.
Regarding why a couple might not go for counseling, if you've been in a marriage for over 20 years that has been pretty lousy most of the time, and you don't particularly like your partner (let alone love them), then counseling isn't going to do much to improve the marriage. If it a "rough patch" in what has been a pretty good partnership, that is a different story.
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this may be true.
But in other cases, I think that, deep down, the guilty party knows that he/she won’t fare well in front of an unbiased 3rd party. Thinking that they’re going to be told, “YOU need to stop doing (fill in the blank), or YOU need to start (fill in the blank) by a professional,” would be one reason why one partner might refuse to go to counseling.
I’m not saying that in real life a therapist would openly “choose sides,” but if there’s something glaring going on (one side running up the credit cards, or an addiction, or is abusive, is dangerously neglectful with the kids, or (some other bad thing), I doubt that a therapist is simply going to act like, “ok, you’re both wrong blah blah blah.”
@mom2collegekids - looks have nothing to do with it. Money and prestige does. I knew a man in his 50s who divorced to marry a woman in her 20s. He was not the least bit physically attractive, but he was well - educated and came from money and that was enough for her. But she wasn’t enough for him - he was arrested for soliciting in a prostitution sting, with his name in the paper and all the ensuing scandal. They had three small children and she stayed with him until his death several years ago. I was reminded of the saying “He who marries for money earns it.”
If you Google “grey divorce” that will pull up some good and not so good articles on the subject.
I know I am not too keen on resuming a caretaker role (for my husband) now that the kids are out. Unfortunately, for him, I think he feels loved when someone is fussing over him and taking care of him.
He would definitely benefit from having a doting younger wife!
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, then my HS b/f and I reconnected. When the relationship was long distance, it was good. Once I moved in with him, it fell apart. His cheapness irked me (splitting everything tho he earned twice as much). His inability to do minimal caring when I had surgery (I lived on crackers). The verbal abuse which grew monthly. I knew in a year that I would leave, but, being me, I tried to give it everything to improve the relationship.
I completely understood why his first wife left him, even giving up primary role as parent. She must have been desperate.
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Oh wow…I actually know someone like that, but in that case the friend married her “refound college sweetie”. It was also a long-distance relationship until they married. And then…oh my…he didn’t brush his teeth, rarely bathed, took up smoking again…on and on. My friend did leave him and felt the same way about understanding why his first wife left him.
Anyone else notice that there seems to be more men who don’t feel the need to support their families while being married??
I’m not talking about true SAHDs…who do all the traditional “mom” things (raise kids, cook, clean).
I’m talking about married men, fathers of children, who don’t work, and do NOT do much and may do NOTHING around the house. Activities seem to involve…watching TV, playing addictive video games, hobbies, and projects that never get finished, ordering stuff off the internet, etc. They “forget” schedules, forget to take kids to apps, can’t be relied on for anything. They’re like another big kid in the household…but not one that the mom has any real power over.
The wives of these strange creatures are kind of doing it all…working 1 or 2 jobs, taking care of kids’ needs, doing chores when off work, etc.
Anyone else notice this sort of growing trend?? What is going on?
@mom2collegekids I live in one state, and my wife with my son who is a Senior in High School live in another. I have other grown children as well. Last year I was forced out of my job, so I needed to find something comparable, and that was not going to happen in the state where my family lives, so I took a job almost 2000 miles away. This has not been a popular decision with my wife and most of my kids.
We have settled in and my kids are accepting the reality, and I have grown closer with them, and the new job situation has been fantastic Although it has been very difficult to be away from my family.
My wife and I hadn’t been doing good for several years and counseling failed, so to me I felt like I was doing her a favor because she wasn’t happy. Since my son is the last in the house she is going through the angst of what shes going to do with herself after he leaves. She has been a SHM for the past 23 years.
I think we have both accepted the inevitable and the separation has made it easier although we fight just about every time we talk.
Also, to clarify, there are no health issues, abuse issues etc. We are good people, and do the right things most of the time, and of course there have been some times where either one of us got angry and did things we shouldn’t have, but nothing that would warrant calling the police.
@CottonTales - Yes, I am an attorney, as is my H, but neither of us does matrimonial law. Up until 2 years ago or so, NY was a fault divorce state, meaning that I would have to air my dirty laundry in public, so to speak, or else lie about being separated, etc. which could have cost me my license. In any event, 3 lawyers, including the specialist in fathers’ rights who I consulted to make sure that H could not hire him, all told me that I was not likely to get custody. At this point, my youngest is 18 so child custody is no longer an issue.
We went to counseling for a year. I realized that I had, for all of my efforts to avoid it, married a man just like not so dear old dad - a narcissist. At this point, the kids realize it and we all just listen to him and then do what I say. OTOH, he is not violent or physically or verbally abusive, he doesn’t drink or smoke and he no longer sneaks around, primarily because I control the medical care and I refuse to pay for Viagra. His best quality is that he loves his children and is good to his mother.
Although it has been very difficult to be away from my family.