I’m sorry for all those going through tough times in this thread. I hope things get better for all. I know after some time, things did improve for several of my friends who divorced, though it was quite an adjustment for everyone, including the kids.
I haven’t seen this thread as bashing or gossiping about anyone. It is a thoughtful and insightful discussion of why some couples chose to end marriages after a few decades. I’m sorry some posts may have hurt some feelings, I’m sure it was totally unintentional.
^ Nothing new, such men are known as “lazy no-good bums”, and there are plenty women in the “slovenly housewife” category who don’t contribute much either.
Okay, this is a tough and painful topic for many. What do we tell our kids who are entering relationships that they intend to be long term?
Though maybe that’s another thread. I know when my daughter first started dating a young man (a first relationship for both) my husband and I kept saying "if you are still together " but now a year plus later we don’t say that anymore. Husband and I have been married 35 plus years, his parents not.
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I’m talking about married men, fathers of children, who don’t work, and do NOT do much and may do NOTHING around the house. Activities seem to involve…watching TV, playing addictive video games, hobbies, and projects that never get finished, ordering stuff off the internet, etc. They “forget” schedules, forget to take kids to appts, can’t be relied on for anything. They’re like another big kid in the household…but not one that the mom has any real power over.
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^ Nothing new, such men are known as “lazy no-good bums”, and there are plenty women in the “slovenly housewife” category who don’t contribute much either.
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In all of my 50+ years I’ve never known a housewife like this except for one mom (mother of a classmate) who was severely depressed and stayed in bed literally everyday, curled up. That’s kind of different because obviously she was very ill.
I’ve known some moms who may not be the best cooks…or some may not have been the best housekeepers, but their shortcomings were limited to just that one thing…they still did all the other things… keeping the family calendar, driving kids to things/appts, cooking or cleaning, grocery shopping, kept the kids dressed and fed, monitored homework, etc. Except for the severely depressed mom I knew, I’ve never seen a total breakdown of responsibility.
As for the “lazy no good bums”…perhaps they were allowed to exist in some lower income households, but existing in more middle class households seems to be more of a new thing.
@GoNoles85, people who don’t say everything that comes into their heads aren’t being PC. They’re being polite.
We all judge other people. That’s only human. But in a civilized society, people filter their thoughts and try to speak the ones that are polite. That’s not dishonest. It’s kind.
I am catching up on this thread, so excuse me if I go backwards a moment – but this comment frosts my cookies:
Yes, it does happen, and sometimes it happens publicly, out in the open. I work in a male-dominated industry. In my first job, I worked in a lab where the walls were made of glass so that you could easily see who was walking down the hallway.
When a woman walked by, most of the men with whom I worked would hold up cards/signs with ratings on them – you know 8/10, etc. I saw those signs, and so did the unfortunate women walking down the hallways. It was embarrassing but of course, when we complained to HR, they shrugged it off.
This happened in the late 80s, so times are different now. (Thank goodness for sexual harassment training and new HR policies!) But don’t tell me “that never happens.”
@scout59 - am also just catching up and agree completely. The hypocrisy and focus on a woman’s physical appearance was an unfortunate hijacking of this important thread. That is horrible that that occurred in the workplace. Glad times have changed, but comments here suggest that it may have simply gone underground. Apparently it’s ok to dump a wife if their looks have become “unappealing”. Hope none of these poor women feels the need to get a facelift, as comments on the outcome may get jumped on :-?
If you read about this topic in a magazine what would happen is the magazine editor would assign a writer to the story, that writer would seek out an interview the usual suspects, usually authors in the field trying to sell their books, and an associated “expert” or talking head who has done some research on the subject and, if the writer is good, a few other people to get an anecdotal spin on the topic. All well and good.
What is great about a message board discussion is that it is dynamic. You don’t get the same old same old. The conversation takes on different tangents for better or worse (until death do us part to make a pun). So I embrace the side topics and heated barbs that come up. It adds flavor to the soup IMHO. @146 I may have been using a little bit of sarcasm when I said that stuff never happens. Just a little. And yes @145 we do all judge people. And whether we say it out loud or just think it it is the same thing really. I understand what being polite is and that is why I did not make my co-worker who got divorced feel badly about it at all. I understand she was in pain. I understand there is more than one side to every story. It wasn’t a time to counsel her about granola nut bread or anything else. It was a time to keep my mouth shut and I did. What happened later, as I mentioned, was a more open discussion that she would not have wanted to hear. Sometimes the truth is painful.
Regarding kids, as luck would have it, mine are 22 and 19 and the one who is 22 is about to get out of grad school. He is meeting people and he is in a serious relationship. So we are back to what parents do and what this board, this part of it, is about. It is a parenting forum. I can stand back and say nothing about the girls he has brought home to meet his parents or I can say what I think. The easiest thing in the world is stay out of it. The easiest thing in the world is let him figure it out. It is his life. But like the other thread about income disparities points out sometimes someone is blinded by love and doesn’t see the cliff they are about to drive over. So, do you still sit back and let him or her make their own decisions and learn from their own mistakes? You let your darling daughter marry the guy with tats and long hair because he looks so cool at 21? How is going to look at 45 if he has made two records and lays on the couch all day and all the hair is receding now? It is too late to say anything by then. So, yes, we are judge people and if you are a parent I think it is your job to guide, give advice, share wisdom and life experiences, and pray heavily.
^Well, at least you are equally obsessed about his looks. I’d care a lot more about whether he was kind to her and they were in synch on career/work expectations as a couple. Not about his hair or if he had a tattoo.
“By the way, what is the difference between that guy/girl is really hot and SAYING IT? Are you actually going to try tell me that if you think it but don’t say it that makes it all better?”
I can’t control my thoughts, but on good days I am able to control my tongue (and my typing fingers ). And certainly I never have to act on thoughts. This just seems like common sense to me.
Thinking and saying are not the same. You actually seem to point that out in post #148. You didn’t give your co-worker unwelcome advice.
I also think there are significant differences between giving unsolicited advice to your own child and to a co-worker. Though I have done my very best not to give my own kids advice on their romances, unless they ask.
There is a difference between tangents and hijacking, derailing or taking a thread off topic. This thread is about mid-life divorces. A conversation about talking to one’s young adult kids about their significant others is best discussed in another thread.
So, back to topic. I am going to a friend’s for dinner tonight. She was the first in our group of friends to divorce (another in this group lost her spouse to cancer- different story). My friend has managed and doesnt ususally complain about her financial challenges. She downsized, cobbled together several part time opportunities, and makes ends meet. She dates. She rarely complains. She seems to keep a good attitude. She and her husband divorced when their child was out ofHS. He (the child) struggled a bit and what the dad was willing to pay for seemed to vary and had strings attached. But the kid seems to be doing ok, and will be in town for dinner tonight. We look forward to seeing him. The dad remarried and seems to be financially stronger than my friend. He had kids from a first marriage (he is now on marriage #3) that we heard little about when he and my friend were married. I don’t get how they can walk away from their kids and financial responsibilities, Even if they were not legally mandated to pay for certain things, there are things one should do simply because it is the right thing to do. What happened to morals, and responsibility to one’s offspring.
I’ve been married for more than 30 years. I love my husband madly and this time, since our kids all have moved onto the next phase of their lives, has been magical. That said, we seriously considered divorce a few years ago and my husband’s 90 pound weight gain was a major cause. Not because I don’t find him attractive, I actually like him bigger, even tough he is more than twice my weight and I lift weights and exercise at least 5 times a week. But what I couldn’t stand is the stuff that comes along with such a weight gain, like snoring, sleep apnea, frequent injuries, lack of intimacy, etc. Those are life-altering things for the spouse and shouldn’t be looked at lightly. I told my husband, and I meant it, that he is the love of my live but if he ever reached the point that he has to be on a scooter because he is too heavy to get around, I will file for divorce. He has lost some weight in the interim (not as much as I would like), but just enough to mitigate the sleep issues. We do exercise together and adopted the cutest, most wonderful doggie in the whole world, whom we walk together and who is a member of a very active playgroup. I didn’t sign on to be a sleep-deprived, celibate, caregiver for someone who doesn’t care enough about me to refrain from drinking a two-liter bottle of coke every day. Thankfully, he knows that I’m serious and is working on it, which is enough for me. But it is absolutely not shallow to decide against staying with a seriously obese spouse whose health and quality of life decline and they refuse to do anything about it.
What happened to wedding vows? I signed on for better or for worse. And to me, if my DH had gotten the heavy genes that permeate one side of his family, I’d still be there for him. If he was an abusive jerk, I would consider alternatives, but not for health reasons. JMO.
Post 72–if you are in debt read Dave Ramsey’s “Total Money Makeover” it’ll give you a step by step plan to retire your debt and control your money. It works but it takes effort.
I know you say you would have divorced early on but you didn’t. You’re obviously unhappy now, you both are. You obviously need a concrete plan to move forward but it takes a team effort. Seek some legal/financial advice soon.
You’ll need it even if you decide to divorce.
I know this is about mid life divorces and I’m not divorced. But I do know people who are not in happy marriages and those who have divorced after years.
One thing I like to stress to my now single daughter, that try and find someone who accepts you for what you are. Who never makes you feel insecure or less of a person than you are. I am very lucky in that regard.
I have a friend who feels that she has be thin and attractive for her husband. It’s not about herself but to make herself a way her husband finds attractive. I don’t know if it’s insecurity on her part but I think he puts a big emphasis on the physical and about how they look as a couple. It’s not a particularly happy marriage and for different reasons they stay together in separate lives.
So I know I went a bit off course @jym626 and I wonder how marriages get to be unhappy together. Is it because the spouse feels that they can’t be their authentic real person? Or does it come down to money, and the lack of or how the spouse has a relationship with it. Or are we destined to have that relationship that we learn from our parents? I think my shortcomings come from what I learned from my parents and I’ve worked hard to change them (or fake them) so my kids are better being secure in who they are.
For pages I have been thinking there is a huge difference between telling a spouse certain behaviors are deal breakers that will end the marriage if they continue, versus being unfaithful and when discovered justify it by citing those behaviors.
And I’m only talking about infidelity in a relationship where both parties expect fidelity. Folks have all kinds of marriages.
Nope. Health genes are not the same as staggeringly poor choices. Not at all.
There comes a point at which one has to accept that no changes will be made (thankfully that’s not my situation) and make the best of the time left. Martyrdom is really not a good choice. Now I’m not saying that if someone is a little chunky one should leave, or that it should be the first choice, but if you’ve never lived with someone who is morbidly obese, you can’t imagine what it does to one’s life.
Your comments seem on topic, @deb922. Completely agree that successful relationships involve caring for the person as a person, not for superficial factors. That includes money, looks etc.
@zoosermom - I don’t, fortunately, live with someone who is morbidly obese, but there are several, make that many, morbidly obese members of my husband’s family. Their partners have stayed with them for better or for worse. Some may be life choices some not. But I would never threaten to leave a spouse if they didn’t take action. In fact my own husband is making different health choices than I would like but it’s his choice and his body. I do not agree with his choice, and it worries me, but I will support him, love him and stand by him.
). And certainly I never have to act on thoughts. This just seems like common sense to me.