Remember Anita Hill? And Clarence Thomas claimed that he was “lynched.”
Read, if you dare, the first comments under that youtube video of Jameis Winston. Makes me tired.
So very tired.
Anita Hill would have been far more credible if she hadn’t have followed him around to enhance her career. Though I suspect many of us here might have put up with that garbage back in the day, I think we would have breathed a sigh of relief when he left, not asked him for another job.
I also wonder if those so horrified by Clarence Thomas are more disgusted by Bill Clinton, whose accused actions (actual rape, not only harassment) are far worse.
I’m sorry I ever mentioned Anita Hill if it is going to turn into a wholly political thing in which highly questionable assertions are going to be made as if they are fact.
Thing is, at one point, we were aiming for a time when we weren’t treated as sexual objects, in the workplace, but appreciated for our contributions. The good thing is that more institutions and individuals are now aware of this issue. The problem is when you hit a throwback, whether it’s touching, lower expectations, or outright denying competent women their due. Or the sly jokes and stereotypes, which are just as difficult. One candidate is a B, while the other’s wife is “a piece.”
I don’t think something different happens to us when we hit our mid 20’s. Many young women encounter issues in their teens, and from men outside their age group. And our personal reactions and how we handle this, over time, is so varied, so dependent on all sorts of things in play. We can barely imagine the range of ways things can offend- I had never heard of some dude on a plane making one look at SI models. So, how can we always anticipate how we’d handle it? (I know what I’d do, but I’ve been around longer.)
I don’t think it’s as simple as saying our jobs or careers will be at risk. If you’re complaining to a good organization, a good boss, it can work differently than if the culture is dismissive or just dumb. I did have a boss who make remarks to many of us women. After he (jokingly?) cornered me one day, another gal and I did report him to is boss, who gave a d*mn. No loss to us. But I’m aware that, if she hadn’t agreed to join in, add her comments, I might not have gone.
Regardless of party affiliation, these behaviors have always appalled me. I think it speaks to character. I’m sure I’m not the only one on this thread feeling that way, or disliking the tendency to excuse or minimize one individual’s bad behavior with comparisons.
BD. I am so sorry for what you had to put up with in your career.
Adding: women’s rights = political. Not much way around it. Imho. I do my very best to post according to rules, but it is challenging.
While we have made some progress as a society, it hasn’t come easily, nor completely.
Ah, thanks, alh. But it’s okay, I always could take it, and I never considered myself a victim. I am happy about my choice of career and things have gotten so much better for women, though every now and then I get a blast from the past and think, “We still have to deal with this, after all these years?”
I am glad that these behaviors are appalling you, no matter who does them. It seems to me that often, people are completely outraged by behavior from one person, who is in the political party that they don’t like, yet completely unaffected by worse behavior of someone on their side. If it’s wrong, it’s wrong, no matter what side you’re on.
Because of my age, like Consolation I see that event as a watershed moment. For my peers, this was the beginning of a continuing, public, conversation about workplace harassment, which is what I believe intparent’s daughter experienced with that professor. In my opinion, it was directly on point and occurred to me as well, on reading the OP. “Still??? We still have to deal with this blank blank?”
I do find it useful to consider the history. Ymmv
The candidate comment was because it’s recent and public. But we all know it happens around us, too. Not about sides or parties, but common reactions to individuals. Not all the old expectations and reactions have been excised. To me, that’s an important thing to explore in ourselves, too. It’s even in even how we frame our concerns. Eg, it’s not just pretty gals who get unwanted attention or invasions of their boundaries.
Some men deliberately use language to disrespect and discredit older women. It really never ends and is all part of a whole.
Intparent: thank you for this conversation. We need it.
Things have improved in some areas. When I was young, blond and attractive and first working in a law firm, handsy attorneys were a daily occurrence and it was just part of the culture. Which is why I have always believed Paula Jones - I worked with her harasser’s classmates and many of them behaved as if female employees were a buffet for them to choose from. That is emphatically no longer the case. Which is just great.
Depends on the university’s policies. Under the previous administration’s Office of Civil Rights [please, please, please don’t turn this into an excuse to fly off politically!] the trend was clearly to get postsecondary institutions to require such reporting (and, as a faculty member at an institution that received one of OCR’s “Dear Colleague” letters a couple years ago, all faculty here would now be required to report it), but it’s not a universal thing at this point, and it’s unclear whether this administration’s OCR will continue the pressure to make it so.
(Which is why my initial suggestion was to email the Title IX Coordinator, with possibly a courtesy cc to the chair.)
I still remember going to bars with my law firm partners to socialize and eat appetizers. Sometimes one of the sleazy married defense attorneys would make overtures because I was the sole female at the table–yuck! None of the men did anything but I physically stayed as far as possible from the irritant with the partners as physical buffers.
I would talk to a trusted female academic advisor to get advice before doing anything. If the offender is in her field and is high up, it can cause her problems. Even if he is at another university, he might well be reviewer on her papers or grants in the future. These guys can hold grudges. I (a high up female advisor) can go to bat for someone with no consequences, and I am saavy enough to know not let on that the (powerless) student told me. When looking over her offers, I would consider whether there are women of power in the department (power = full rank faculty members). Keep your eyes open and don’t be naive. That’s the closed door advice I got from a senior female advisor when I was post-doc.
I agree that things have changed, but the olden days weren’t really that long ago. My first lab job was in a building where one wall of our labs faced an interior hallway (in other words, a fishbowl.) Whenever a female co-worker walked down the hall, the men in my group would hold up score cards rating her appearance - 9.5, 8.8. etc. Real classy, guys. Fortunately, strict HR policies on sexual harassment really changed the culture of that work place.
Once a young woman hits puberty, she attracts men of all ages, though most just stare or flirt. (I am not saying that ALL men of ALL ages take an interest; I just mean that SOME men, including men 40 years older, do. Of course, there are also pedophiles who are interested in young children.) Once she hits the age of consent–or looks it–all bets are off. Ever take a group of girls who are young teenagers to a beach? It’s really upsetting to watch the way men look at them. Some go further and say some truly horrific things. Of course, that’s still different than being touched.
Just wanted to mention, since there have now been a number of posts about men’s sexual attraction toward women, that sexual attraction goes in all directions, not just men attracted to women. For some reason cultural attitudes have built up that generally make men feel empowered to express that attraction in unwarranted ways, but in fear that this could build into a “men are just sexual animals who can’t control themselves” direction (which I think does a disservice to both men and women), I wanted to point that out.
Edited to correct a misspelling.
I certainly hope ya’ll gave them the finger as you walked by…and had score cards of your own that were more obnoxious!
While there may be times when responding in kind is the best solution available, it doesn’t seem to me to solve the basic problem of individuals, regardless of gender identity, deserving to being treated with respect in the workplace and in daily public interactions.
liska21 and scout59 make me wonder who should have the responsibility of push back and reporting these days. I like the idea of women in senior positions of power and prestige taking on that responsibility.