<p>Think about it:
A wedding coordinator will insure that the guests are seated and the principals (and ONLY the principals) are in place before the procession starts. Mother or sister off groom will not be able to shoo little darling down anywhere.</p>
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<p>But Cptofthehouse, what makes you think that this particular girl will be allowed to jump into the bridal party and then process serenely up the aisle, return cooperatively to her seat and then sit quietly for the rest of the ceremony?</p>
<p>It sounds to me much more likely that she might skip, spin, or freeze on her way down the aisle, sit in the front row, turn around in the pew to make faces at the guests behind her, mess with the hymnals, climb up the steps and sit down at the altar and stage whisper about how she wants a snack/is thiiiiirstyyy/needs to go pee-pee.</p>
<p>I would much rather have the guests hear her begin to protest loudly at the back of the church as I scooped her up and took her back into the vestibule… or out to the sidewalk to play with a bottle of recessional bubbles.</p>
<p>I don’t care if the occasional guest makes a rash judgment that I’m so mean for not letting the pretty little girl walk down the aisle if it means avoiding constant distraction and commotion for the rest of the ceremony.</p>
<p>Not a thing a wedding coordinator can do if the parties get up and do anything if they are willing to create a stir or scene. A smart wedding coordinator will weigh the damages and back off, or there will be a memorable commotion. </p>
<p>My friend hired a wedding coordinator for her wedding, and the one nasty scene that ensued was nipped in the bud when the groom stepped in and told the coordinator to let it go. A guest tried to take a rented plant as she left early. Had a bit too much to drink, and the wedding coordinator was not going to let it go, but the groom felt that the cost of a frigging potted plant was not worth trying to wrest it from her. It was over in seconds, and only those at the table where it ensued were aware, and the consensus was that the wedding coordinator ( who has a sterling rep) was too heavy handed. And yes, the guest got the plant, but it was returned the next day when the MOB went and got it. But you do not want unpleasantries to mar a wedding. </p>
<p>That was the extreme case, but any pushy wedding coordinator, and some are a bit over the top can put an edge to the atmosphere of the wedding. My DH is a bit slow in movement and when he was prompted or asked something by one, he distinctly did not like the tone and air. I don’t like them as a rule, unless they remain pretty much invisible. You want a nice feeling to be about a wedding. To me, that is what is important. When we got married, once everyone was there, it was about them all those who took the time and trouble to be there, and, I was certainly willing to go a long way to avoid anything to make it an unpleasant, ugly scene to those there. I wanted as many guest as possible to remember it as a very nice wedding, a good time. The self interest ended, once it became an event to which DH and I were hosting, and really it is the bride and groom’s show regardless who is paying as they are the centerpieces, and how they behave is going to be scrutinized as well as any uprisings that occur to mar the festive air. </p>
<p>Really, it’s not so important. i would drop it. I would not say word one to bride about this to fuel it any more than it has been, and at this point it is between the two of them, and whatever the groom wants to say to his mother and sister. If the little girl gets into the scene any ways, I hope everyone acts graciously. You can’t win on this one.</p>
<p>Villagemom, first of all for the mother of the child and the grandmother to even be considering this sort of thing says a lot about them. They are not reasonable people. If they do such a thing, they are not only unreasonable but rude and selfish. Nasty is probably a better word. And if ANYONE lays a hand on the little girl, there could be a lot of trouble. You don’t handle other people’s kids these days. There could be a scene that no one will ever forget. Flower girls and other little kids make commotions at wedding all of the time and it’s not out of the ordinary. Forcibly removing a little girl, with the mother and grandmother infuriated is fodder for one big cannon and explosion. At this point no one has any idea how this will play out. They can be seated and just have the little girl go up to the altar. She doesn’t have to go down any aisle. </p>
<p>Please be aware that I am not condoning the mother of the girl and the MOG one bit. They are boors, pure and simple, and to say they are inconsiderate is a huge understatement. But as they so are, they may well be willing to make a large scene to get what they want. And the bride and groom 's reactions will be scrutinized as they are stage center. They need to be as gracious or they will be remembered as churlish and selfish. You can’t win against children, puppies and kittens. And unless there is a true danger element, you can’t go around grabbing other people’s children without expecting some backlash.</p>
<p>anothermom2, your entire post #137 is stellar. This is especially wise:
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<p>Modadunn, I’m wishing you and your d the very best of luck in dealing with a tough situation. I certainly understand wanting to take a stand, but I’m one of those posters who would not discuss it with the MOB at all. It seems as if it’s not possible to “win” this one, as cpt says, unless you might consider having a day without unpleasant skirmishes winning. If this kid breaks into the processional against the bridal couple’s wishes, it’s an awful breach of etiquette and her handlers will look like idiots, but it truly doesn’t have to mean the day is spoiled. If you decide to see all the wonderful parts of the day and ignore the jerks, you’ll have a better time.</p>
<p>‘ignore the jerks’ yes. If they make fools of themselves, so be it.</p>
<p>But - I have a question. You’ve tried subtly offering a lady in waiting, and were met with looks. IMO this confirms your suspicions. Would it be wise to ask SonIL to call them out on this, to say I suspect that I know what you are thinking about doing, against my long standing specific wishes for my wedding, so you’d better not try it? I will have an usher escort mom and princess down the isle, you will sit next to X, and you’d better stay seated? Maybe sister of groom and princess could be escorted ahead of grandma?</p>
<p>Or what if you offer the little princess (poor kid, mom and grandma are doing her no favors) a specific role at the reception? Will there be dancing? Could there be a specific plan to have a princess/groom dance, or princess/bride dance?</p>
<p>How about an option where the MOG and Baby Jane are seated by an usher at their special time? Which is before the MOB and the actual bridal party? This lets her walk down the aisle in a special manner, but with ann adult on either side of her to keep her between the lines.</p>
<p>Xposted with Treetopleaf. Great minds and all that!</p>
<p>I personally think too much time and thought is spent on this whole silly thing abut the niece. So many people are trying to come up with ways of trying to appease future SIL and MIL, or trying to convince oneself that it really doesn’t matter that much. If it’s going to bother my D that much, I know she would pick the phone to tell the SIL and MIL that it is not going to happen. Sometimes it is easier to just have a discussion upfront instead of beating around the bushes. </p>
<p>I have hosted quite a few large events for my parents and my daughters, and some of those events’ costs were shared between my siblings. But before start of each event, I would always have a meeting with the bartender(s), servers, band, caterer, to let them know the schedule and make it perfectly clear that I was the only one to give directions. The idea someone could keep the bar open past what was originally agreed upon or plan a dance (FIL and bride) without prior notice is ridiculous.</p>
<p>My mother in law disliked me intently and spent a lot of time trying to stir up trouble, especially involving me. She had little to do and wanted attention, particularly from her son, so that’s what she did. I found that ignoring her most of the time and just being gracious about that stuff made her look worse and kept me out of it, and spared my DH any issues with me. Can’t help what the crazies do, but I can control my own reactions, and that is what I did. Sad, as she dug her own ditches that way, and is lying in them now. it could have been so different, but I’m not down in the much and mire with her.</p>
<p>As Post 137 states, any egging on that pits someone against his/her mother, has a great chance of causing even more problems REGARDLESS of what the person insists is the case in the relationship with parents. My DH had hardly a good word to say to his mother, and ignored her and jumped on her, for years. Said he disliked her intently, said a lot of things, but when it came down to it, he loves his mother fiercely, there is no doubt about it, as terrible as she might have been. Instinct and emotion, and not a thing anyone can do about it. It annoys my kids greatly. But I always took that as a given, thank goodness, as those who did not, that I know, did not fare well in these wars. But I let her go on a lot of things, and just left it up to DH to handle. Yes, she invited people under the table and over the fire code of the reception hall to our wedding because she was not happy with her quota of invites. She took it upon herself to take and give out the centerpieces and other floral decorations. My maid of honor who served pretty much as my wedding coordinator was ready to give her a swift kick in the tush and worse, but I am grateful that all involved just gave way and focused on the rest of the wedding, so that a lovely time was had, truly a very nice wedding and reception, by all except for the bad behavior of my MIL which most people who knew her expected, and with so many good things happening was ignored. It’s when one interacts, that these things can blow up in proportion. Trust me, I’ve spent 40 years with a narcissist, and have been successful in deflecting her nastiness and selfish pursuits,and giving her her way is often the least harmful way to go, much as seems like defeat and galling.</p>
<p>Seriously, ask the photographer and videographer NOT to record the flower girl or little girl who gets up during the ceremony. That it’s not recorded for posterity would make it just something of the moment. But, I’d stay out of it, as the MOB. I really think you are fueling this fire by talking about it with your DD. Some things are just better if they go their course, and if your DD is truly selfless and gracious, she will deal with it just fine. My kids are not so selfless or gracious, but I am100% sure that they would take a child, even one they did not care much for, crashing their wedding scene in good stead. A spurned suitor of the bride… ummm not so much, a fist fight would probably ensue, but an uninvited, even disinvited 6 year old, they would be fine with the breach. There worse crashers, you know.</p>
<p>In that BOOK (!!) that was my late night post… I failed to add that we indeed do have a wedding planner and where my daughter is getting married has a coordinator. Fortunately it’s not in a church, but in an outdoor kind of building and although there are pews etc, there is no alter or echo chambers to amplify a kid’s whine. </p>
<p>Having breakfast with my D this morning before I leave. I think I will try to talk to her a tad more about this. As I said to her yesterday however, it doesn’t matter if Baby Jane is in the pictures looking like the wedding party as there will be plenty without her and there is nothing that says which pics she buys etc. Let the MOG buy all of them if she wants, who cares? </p>
<p>When I offered the inclusion etc, I was more or less thinking about one post that said, it’s my kid too, referring to the groom - and I do agree that it’s not only about the bride. But what else is true is that our side of the family comprises a large number of those attending as the groom has a much much smaller family in general. We are paying for the wedding and contributing to the rehearsal dinner since it is kind of what would be termed a destination wedding, even though the destination is where our family has been going for generations. So we are definitely on a home turf in that we own real estate there.</p>
<p>And while I will probe the daughter a little more, I don’t think the groom has any problem standing up to his Mother per se, but it’s probably easier and more effective to just ignore sometimes as well and have the same result. </p>
<p>My plan is to not draw lines but to include where I can and act clueless to the rest. Admittedly, I am not very good at the owl blink, but might have to work on that today during this conversation. Hell, I have two sisters who have lots of opinions too and as the youngest of three sisters, I do sometimes feel they run over me.</p>
<p>And lastly: No snark intended on the bridal shower, but I’ve been to lots of bridal showers with children. In fact, I went to bridal showers before I was allowed to attend the actual weddings! My mother had five brothers and never once was it assumed or considered that any of my sisters or I would be in the wedding. My brother was once a ring bearer and failed miserably in his duties. :)</p>
<p>Also… I wasn’t chastising anyone for bridezilla or self-centered bride references. I was merely pointing out that to assume that is not really entirely fair. I will say, however, that I will make the point to my daughter to better understand how her groom wants to handle this. And while I think it entirely presumptive to put this 6yr old (who is very tall so most would guess her to be 8/9) in a white dress when etiquette clearly says no one should wear white except the bride. </p>
<p>And that’s where my own family (husband’s side) comes in… there are rules and they like the rules as my MIL believes that it’s etiquette and not wealth that truly separates people. So I have my own issues… and funny enough, my H chooses to ignore his mother or act ignorant to what she is demanding, rather than confront her. I prefer to pick a few things that I know make her very happy and therefore get credit for trying (and likely always falling short). My own Mother pretty much told me who my bridesmaids were going to be (my two sisters), where we were having the reception and the time of day. I couldn’t even tell you the flowers at my first wedding because my mother basically ordered a do-over from my older sister’s wedding. And so… my point to everyone is that … this is my daughter’s wedding and I want it to be as she envisions it while also making sure it’s very much a classy affair. If you want to know the real truth, in meeting some of the friends coming from here over the weekend, I am concerned that they are far more used to having a reception in a fire hall than a ballroom of a historic hotel! So I am walking lines all over the place… </p>
<p>And yeah… sometimes I think eloping would have been better.</p>
<p>Oldforte, nice that people always listen to you. You’ve had a good run that way. But that doesn’t always happen. I think the MOG and mother of the child have been told already, and , yes, bar tenders have been known to keep the bar open a bit longer despite directions. Yes, you can make them pay if you catch it. You can spend the entire wedding chasing after the gremlins, a lot of them there. You grab the centerpieces that those who are taking that aren’t supposed to be, you can kick out the univited guests, and fight with the caterer that there are oysters being offered that you did not stipulate. You can be angry at the photographer for spending too much time with a certain family member’s shots. Oh, the list is endless.</p>
<p>Or you can enjoy the wedding, and let the less important things go, for the overall thing to go well.</p>
<p>Moda, as long as you have a coordinator…Part of her job will be sending people down the aisle in sequence.</p>
<p>I would have her say…Baby Jane, we can’t start the wedding procession until you are seated as a spectator next to (whoever)…or you can watch from here with me.</p>
<p>Or could your daughter simply tell Baby Jane, I am so sorry to disappoint you, Janey, but my wedding is not having any flower girls. But you can wave to me from your seat when I walk by…</p>
<p>I am so sorry you are having all this craziness only because other people think the social event is about them, instead of the B and G</p>
<p>cpt, whether this is truly important or not will only be determined in hindsight based on the child’s behavior. Maybe she really is going to be fine, but perhaps not.</p>
<p>Also, when Mod’s daughter is in labor and the in-laws parade in uninvited, this is where the groundwork will have been laid. I can’t tell you how many things my MIL trampled on me about because she was sure she could. Personally, it’s over something that isn’t life altering where the groundwork for respecting boundaries comes in. In a truly life-or-death situation (or its equivalent) it will be too late or too emotional.</p>
<p>cpt - I have enjoyed every single event I have planned and I don’t get angry when something goes wrong, but I do try anticipate what may go wrong and do as much risk mitigation beforehand. I personally do not think grabbing the center piece is really that big of a deal, so I wouldn’t worry about it. I don’t know why bartenders, caterers, band, would have any incentive to do anything different than what they were instructed to do. The only issue I’ve ever had was when the band’s car broke down on the way to the party. I was called. Between the owner and I, we figured out the best way to get the band to the party. </p>
<p>I don’t know why you keep on calling it craziness just because someone wants to have a nice wedding. Just because it is not important to you, it doesn’t mean others want a non-scheduled flower girl walking down the aisle. The ceremony is suppose to mean something to the couple. If they wanted to have a flower girl, they would have asked, and it may very well not be the niece.</p>
<p>This thread is making my stomach hurt as I remember my MIL’s, SsIL’s, sister’s poor behavior. In the instance of my MIL, she would paint it as being “helpful,” but it was all about control – the religion, the church, the officiant, my bridesmaid dresses, the reception site. One SIL never married and so seemed to think this was her opportunity, and the other SIL got engaged after we did but rushed her plans to be married six weeks before us, so all the out-of-town relatives came to her wedding and not ours (many didn’t want to make two trips just six weeks apart). My own sister invited people I didn’t even know so that she’d be sufficiently entertained. She’d only pull this because my parents were paying and never seem able to tell her no.</p>
<p>I wish I’d forced dh to get his mother to back off. He finally did the day she and his sister decided it was OK to meet with the priest with us. When the priest would ask questions of them, instead of dh and I, I knew the fix was in and finally started to cry. Only then, did dh ask them to leave. My dh is the youngest in the family, and these women had been so used to running his life that they had trouble accepting that I wasn’t going to let them run my life. The wedding fiascos (well, really, his family’s behavior and dh’s lack of action) colored the first 10 years of our marriage in a really negative way. And really still do to a much lesser extent.</p>
<p>I’m not sure this indulged would-be flower girl is the hill I would die on, but I do think it’s worth the groom talking to his mother about her comments and letting her know that this also may not be the hill she wants to die on. While my MIL is a PITA, my FIL was certifiable and he only listened to straight-up, direct talk. When I told him that he’d never see his grandchild again if he didn’t straighten up (after he said something incredibly rude about my first son), he did really quickly. With some people, you just have to put it out there; I agree with whoever upthread said these people aren’t reasonable so you can’t reason with them.</p>
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Are you implying that you didn’t have jugglers or male strippers for your sister’s enjoyment?</p>
<p>I think it’s craziness to cause more commotion to prevent this from happening, than to let it. Simple as that. It seems to me that an inordinate amount of focus, thought, discussion, planning is being focused on this already, where there is so much in a wedding that can be enjoyed. I’m hoping it will be a nice wedding. </p>
<p>It’s the old “throwing the baby out with the bathwater” concept. Don’t let this become an issue that overshadows other things of the wedding.</p>
<p>As for crazy MILs, mine in her sane days truly took the cake, Zoosermom i am perfectly happy that she is now demented. Much easier to deal with her in this state. But, it hurts DH a lot. For all his posturing about his mother, the truth of the matter is that he loves her deeply, and it’s something he has no control over. </p>
<p>I think she taught me a lot on what not be, how not to act as a future MIL. </p>
<p>Modalum, I hope all goes well with the wedding, and that your DD and new SIL have a wonderful start to their marriage. Best wishes to you too. Don’t let the nasties ruin the wedding in any way.</p>
<p>Ha, ha, Zoosermomj–I would not have noticed the extras my MIL invited except one came with an accordion which he proceeded to play at the reception. After two numbers, DH went up to him, hugged him, thanked him, and took him to the head table for some photos, sans accordin, while best man put the accordion away and got the other music going. So no strippers and or jugglers, and no monkeys but an organ grinder did show up.</p>
<p>zooser, I think my sister and your niece would get along famously. And I’d love to see them go toe-to-toe over who would get the most attention. :D</p>
<p>ETA: We had an accordion player, but we invited him. Good Mexican music always has an accordion!!! Happy Seis de Mayo, y’all!!!</p>
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<p>No. That doesn’t strike me as odd. It’s not how I would do things, but in and of itself I don’t think it means anything.</p>
<p>I am very much of the “bride / groom get to decide what they want, and that’s how it goes”, but I do want to leave you with a story from my own wedding (which was a big formal fancy affair):</p>
<p>I had two sets of grandparents and a great-grandmother; H had only one grandmother (a widow of at least 20 years). The grandparents walked down the aisle, and one of our ushers escorted my great-grandmother. We had planned on having another usher escort H’s grandmother. (This was H’s best friend - so he knew the grandmother.)</p>
<p>At the last minute, grandmother decided that she wanted to be escorted by her male companion, who was a gentleman that she’d been keeping company with ever since her husband had passed away. I was, naturally aghast, this wasn’t how I planned it, the guy was wearing a stupid and ugly mustard-colored suit instead of the nice tuxes everyone else was wearing, this was an insult to the memory of H’s beloved grandfather, blah blah blah. But it was one of those situations where I had a choice to throw a tantrum or just let it be. So I gritted my teeth and let it be.</p>
<p>And in hindsight? I was really stupid to get worked up over this. No one even noticed or cared one way or the other. This guy in his ugly mustard suit didn’t “ruin” anything. An old man walked down an aisle escorting an old woman to her seat. That’s all. It made her happy and it was no skin off my back. When I think back as to how I felt during that time, honestly, I’m kind of ashamed that I cared so much and let it bother me. Now with the wisdom of however many years, if I had to do it over again, I’d smile pleasantly and let it go. It’s just not worth it. This might make a little girl happy and it probably isn’t the hill worth dying on when it comes to starting off this marriage. There are likely other battles to fight that are far more important.</p>