<p>Oh, come on now. Here’s where I think you’re looking to be offended. “Etiquette” doesn’t even say that any more – guests can show up in white, no one is going to mistake them for the bride, she’s the one with the veil marrying the groom – and seriously, go into any store and 90% of the fancy party dresses for 6 year old girls are going to be white with some kind of pastel sash. I absolutely would not think twice about buying my (hypothetical) 6 yo a white dress with a pink sash to attend a pretty wedding, even if I had zero designs on trying to make her a flower girl. This part of your argument I think gets a little absurd.</p>
<p>Think long and hard about whether the motives for not including the little girl are truly “don’t want any kids” versus “want to put that little girl in her place.” And think really hard about whether the motives of the sister-in-law/mother of the groom are truly “want to make princess happy” versus “want to tell that uppity bride that we count, too, and she’s not all that.” If the motives of the SIL/MOG are indeed “put your daughter in her place and show her she’s not the boss,” then if your daughter acts upset in any way, THEY WILL HAVE WON.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s inappropriate or strange at all to have children at a bridal or baby shower at all, either. I’ ve been to a number where there was a close family member’s child or sometimes the child of a friend.</p>
<p>I posted links earlier in this thread to the current Emily Post who says that white, let alone ivory and pink, is acceptable today as long as it’s not bridal looking. I don’t agree with all of her advice, and as I said wouldn’t choose to wear white myself, but there is zero risk that a six year old child will be mistaken for the bride in any case. Could be that the sister of the groom looked this up, was told by someone in sales it’s now fine, etc. Just let the dress thing go - IMO it is just as wrong to play fashion police. </p>
<p>I also disagree that the negative reaction to the suggestion of a personal attendant for a six year old proves anything. I think it’s wrong to push the issue or do anything more then offer a sitter as an option, <em>unless</em> Jane is, in fact, not invited to the reception or the entire reception. My D was flower girl in a number of weddings, including ones where I was also in the bridal party. With H, the grandparents and me there, supervision was a total non-issue. </p>
<p>My thought is either invite the children or don’t. If there is an expectation that they are to be invited for the ceremony only, then that needs to be made clear. It’s generous to offer the services of a sitter, but if the children are invited guests it would be wrong to continue to bring it up after the parents made it clear they are not interested.</p>
<p>I feel for your daughter, Moda. She’s going to have the MIL (and SIL) from hell, and they haven’t even begun their lives together. If I were her, I’d start looking at places to work and live as far away as I could reasonably get so as not to have to spend holidays with their drama. The wedding is just one day. But a lifetime of dealing with them? Yikes.</p>
<p>This thread is making me so relieved that my daughter and her future MIL like each other so much. Future SIL comes from a huge Hispanic family, and we are WASPs, and the love and warmth and inclusion they have shown my daughter has shown me we really, really have a lot to learn about love in my family.</p>
<p>My daughter was a flower girl in several weddings growing up, and she plans to have all girls under ten as flower girls if they want to be. She loved it. </p>
<p>Hello all: This is Ellebud talking. Some of you may remember that I have the worst in laws in the world. Although fil is dead the ravages of what could have been a cordial relationship died the first night we met. </p>
<p>The wedding: seriously the most important part of this is that, at the end of the evening the couple is married. Now is the time to make sure that at the end of the day this is what happens. What people wear isn’t important…(I saw at my wedding 2 women wearing white dresses), what is important is that the bride and groom get together and decide what is or isn’t more than they want. (I remember that oh so many years ago women never wore a black dress to weddings…now, all the time). If one of them doesn’t have the courage to say to the offending party what the issue is…you are stuck.</p>
<p>Yes, I will have input because we will be paying for the wedding. What I won’t do is engage in the kosher/non kosher argument. (The Ellebuds have never kept kosher…ever.) We will decide what to do together…period…over. The word compromise…And I guess we won’t have the Chasen replica of the shellfish bar…I can live without it.</p>
<p>I’ve never seen either of those. I’m not sure if I should. :eek:</p>
<p>My daughter has a lot of experience with putting on big productions. All she needs from us is a check. Her future MIL is also very experienced at putting on big productions. They seem to be doing a lot of this together, which is fine with me. But, I do recognize other people have other feelings on these things and have no opinion on how anyone else approaches this.</p>
<p>The main thing is that peace reigns for the couple and everyone there has a good time.</p>
<p>The running joke in my family is that my dh thought “My Big Fat Greek Wedding” was a documentary. Seriously, it wasn’t funny to him the first time he saw it. It made his stomach hurt. The negatives were way too familiar.</p>
<p>I’m glad that I don’t care about what kind of wedding my kids will have. Up to them and their SOs. But, you know, a few weeks ago, my friend sent me to her DD’s Facebook site for some pictures on there, and the girl also had older pictures of one of my son’s ex girlfriend’s wedding. She had a “Goth wedding”, and I mean truly Goth. Gah… I don’t think I would have been so happy about that. Apparently the entire wedding party, including the parents of each side were asked to dress Goth style as well as the guests. Yes, I would have done it, but keeping my mouth shut and opinions to myself before the date… um, I don’t know. Those two mothers, both MOB and MOG, looked like Divine clones. The very thought of such a wedding, well, my guest list would have been very, very short.</p>
<p>Oh, and as I’ve said before, I’ve been to over a hundred weddings, and there are almost always some guests in white and cream. My mother wore a beautiful cream colored dress to one of my brothers’ weddings, and the MOB wore a cream and apricot combo dress. The photos came out beautifully, a gorgeous wedding. My bridesmaids wore cream with rose accents for their dresses, and the groomsmen werre all in cream tuxes. Lots of little (and big) girls with white dresses with any color sashes, not a blink of the eye, and we are talking about some high falooting weddings in the mix. Also, it seems like anything goes and anyone comes to the showers these days, including the men and children. In earlier days, that was not the case, but now, it’s pretty danged open. I actually went to a shower that was held the day before the wedding at one wedding, so that out of town guests could do it all in one. Yeah. So, the etiquette rules are not so strictly adhered to these days, has been my take.</p>
<p>Moda - I am your daughter with the husband who was always on the backburner with the family of girls. They’ve said and done some horrific things over the years and their children were so bad I pulled way back on any kind of relationship. The thing that has always hurt hubby is that his needs/wants/feelings always took a backseat. And it passed onto our kids. His parents never made it to a single even of my kids - not a grandparents day, play, sports event, etc. They were even in town when my son won an award at a major university in middle school and they didn’t bother to show up. </p>
<p>We tried all sorts of things over the years, and in the end we keep our distance, our expectations are pretty low and I listen to hubby when once again they do it again. Now of course the proof is in the pudding and he’s got a good stable life, fabulous wife (me) and great kids. </p>
<p>But his mom and sis don’t get it, try and bulldoze us, but we stand firm together.</p>
<p>Moda, My recommendation is to put the little girl in the middle of an aisle and place two big guys at each end. That way, if she tries to ‘escape’ the guy can pick her up and take her somewhere else. ;)</p>
<p>I would also recommend your D and future SIL move about 500 miles away from his parents. This has worked for my husband and his mom!</p>
<p>Our horrible wedding story: we were supposed to get married in Georgia. Future MIL was doing most of the 'bride" type things as I was stationed in California at the time. My H came out for a visit before the wedding and said his mom wouldn’t allow us to hold our reception at their house- even though his sister was able to do this. The reason- MIL found out that my maid of honor was black. This was in 1989. Needless to say, H stayed in Cal. and we got married 7 months later. None of his family attended. We sent a video of the wedding.</p>
<p>Other things- they never told me what I could call them- Bob, Jane, mom, dad… So I started calling them by their first names. Ten years later we were visiting and MIL told me that I was the best thing that ever happened to her son. Of course that didn’t stop her from thinking she could tell me how to raise our children. I would just answer her, “That’s nice, but we do this…” totally disregarding her cockamamie advice.</p>
<p>I have learned over the years that if I give her an inch, MIL will take a mile. But pick your battles.</p>
<p>Roshke, a lot of the guests, and family members did not, from what I could see in the photos. I don’t think DH would have done it. I would have gone a bit in that dierction but not like the moms did. They were better sports than I would have been, for certain. I’m glad he didn’t marry that girl.</p>
<p>I haven’t been following this thread but just saw a few of the last posts. I can see it now, fresh cc thread – “Help me choose MOG dress for Goth wedding.” We’ve had a lot of fun doing virtual group shopping expeditions here, and I’m sure we’d manage to come up with something!</p>
<p>Moda - my sympathies, I don’t deal with passive-aggresive well, in fact that usually inspires me to make it worse for the passive-aggresive one but I have also had more than my share of family issues on all sides! But I agree on a lot of fronts - I completely get where your daughter is trying to honor her husband and give him a day about him too and I expect that effort will be hugely appreciated even if it doesn’t turn out as well as planned but I also agree that baby jane may not have any thought to take away from the limelight, that it may all be the MOG and SIL. Does your daughter have any relationship with Baby Jane? If not, can she start one? Was just thinking maybe if she took the little girl out for ice cream or mani-pedis and asked how she’d like to be included in the day the little girl may stick up for the bride on the big day. If the little girl says she wants to be a flower girl, your daughter can say “I’m so sorry sweetie but I’m not having flower girls in my wedding, how else would you like to help?” “Would you like to peek down the aisle when I’m getting ready to let me know everything is all ready to go?” or something like that. On one of their outings maybe she can encourage the little girl to start thinking of what she’d like to have at her future weddings and tell her “when I come back from my honeymoon I want to hear what you loved the most and what you think you’ll do for yours” - could be a long shot but I think just go straight to Baby Jane and engage her that way. </p>
<p>And this all just reinforces I am so eloping next time!!</p>
<p>Or…off to the side (away the aisle) put a present…enormous teddy bear, life size Barbie with a huge name tag, “for …”. Then have someone behind the toy and lead the toy (with the charging kid_ out of the sanctuary…</p>
<p>Goth wedding. Wow. I think it’s fine if the bride and groom want to make a statement wedding with their own attire and that of their attendants, but asking the guests to comply is beyond the pale.
I have heard of a “Vegan Wedding.” The bride not only had vegan food and decorations, which is perfectly understandable, but all of the guests were asked not to wear leather or other animal skins or products.:rolleyes: I think that’s as absurd as asking the guests to dress goth, actually.
I don’t think I know any young people quite this silly, fortunately.</p>
<p>My niece and her husband met at a Renaissance Fair where they both do the dress up thingy and DH and I discussed what we would do if they asked everyone to dress the part. Thankfully, they didn’t go there.</p>
Seriously, it wasn’t funny to him the first time he saw it. It made his stomach hurt. The negatives were way too familiar.</p>