<p>I think the only imperative guiding rule of weddings is for the engaged couple to be kind and considerate to both their families. There seem to be too many young couples today who seem to be saying, “here’s how we want to do it; if you don’t like it, tough”.</p>
<p>In my own case, my (now) husband and I were living in a big east coast city and were in our late 20’s when we married, although we both grew up in Florida. We had lots of friends where we were living and we could have had a cool wedding local to where we lived and worked. However, my FFIL had limited mobility due to Parkinsons disease, one FSIL was wheelchair-bound, and my own grandmother was in her 90’s. In addition, several family members had limited financial resources and would not have been able to afford airfare + hotels for several days so for us to have the wedding convenient to ourselves would have effectively excluded several family members.</p>
<p>We ended up hauling ourselves down to Florida and doing everything long-distance for 6 months prior to the event but honestly we never seriously considered doing otherwise. Like it or not, you are not just joining 2 people but 2 families and failing to take that into account can result in a lot of long-term hurt feelings and I would still be feeling bad about it 31+ years later. Some of our local friends came and others didn’t but it was a lovely wedding with several family members present who ended up passing away in the next few years. I don’t think you ever regret doing the kinder option.</p>
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<p>I tend to disagree with your disagreement ;). My reaction to this idea is that if FDIL is marrying into a family which takes their faith and culture seriously (and if she doesn’t really know much about it), it would be a great idea to take the classes even if you have no intention of ever converting. It could really help her to understand where her fianc</p>
<p>Sorry, that’s pretty much me. My parents support this and my FFIL supports this. It is only my FMIL that has an issue with it because she wants it to be a Catholic wedding. It’s not going to be. Tough.</p>
<p>One comment on the “Jewish classes” is that most rabbis won’t consider marriage a reason for conversion. The only acceptable reason is that the person sincerely wishes to do it for themselves. Judaism isn’t part of the mainstream culture, and so unless someone makes an effort to learn it, they would not know much about it. If someone wants to spend the rest of their lives with a Jewish person, it would benefit them to understand that person’s background. There are classes at some Reform temples that introduce non Jews to Judaism, and sometimes people of other religions attend them just out of curiosity. Conversion requires a more personal course of study, which is followed by being asked “has anyone coerced you to do this?” Any answer besides “no” would stop this immediately.</p>
<p>Joblue, it is she who does not respect our wishes. She never misses a chance to dig into me about my lack of Catholic faith, my not wanting to change my last name, etc. I have NEVER brought up any of these issues up with her. Now if my FIANCE was Catholic and wanted his faith to be a part of our wedding, things might be different. But he’s not and neither am I. Incorporating a faith into our ceremony that neither of us believe in feels like a lie. I don’t want that. I will leave it at that. </p>
<p>Sometimes, just sometimes, there is no reasoning with people. Sometimes, it is not the couples’ fault.</p>
<p>BTW, my fiance’s older brother is getting married just a few weeks after us. His fiancee is a good friend of mine and has the same issues with her- and she’s Christian (but not Catholic so not the “right” Christian.)</p>
<p>ETA: I should add that this is how it works in my family and my fiance is on board. My parents had a ceremony that was exactly to their tastes (my dad’s mom didn’t come because it wasn’t a Jewish ceremony… she has never been a part of our lives but my parents have had a fantastic marriage for the last several decades). My mom’s mom’s parents refused to come to their wedding because they considered it interracial and wrong. They were happily married for 40+ years before they passed away days from each other. What other people want to do is their business :)</p>
<p>romani, I don’t want to drag this out and as I said, you have every right to do what you want. That said, life is long (and hopefully your marriage is too) and you never know what challenges will come up in the future. If she is goading you about these things she is wrong but it sounds like her feelings are hurt. I suspect that given your hostility, she has also dug in her heels and you are at an impasse.</p>
<p>She may however, someday be a wonderful loving grandmother even if she remains a thorn in your side and if you continue to be at odds, your children could be the ultimate losers. Sometimes it’s better to compromise in the short term in some small way, and be the bigger person in the interest of future harmony and support. Would it really be that bad to be just a little bit kind?</p>
<p>Well don’t I feel like a heel for opening a can of words this morning by admitting my confusion and seeking clarification. Apologies, blueiggy. I think the solution is for HImom to invite us all to come visit her. A destination CC meet-up! </p>
<p>My DH threw me (well, we sorta threw it together) a 60th birthday party :eek: this summer. The invitation said No Gifts. That was an epic fail. Got lots and lots of gifts. And truth be told, if I was invited to a friend’s kid’s engagement party or post wedding reception, even if it said “no gifts” I’d bring a gift. </p>
<p>I hadn’t lived in the area where I grew up (and where my parents still lived) for about 10 years when I married, but still, the wedding was held there. Fortunately my mom handled almost all of the planning (I probably never thanked her enough). I said “go for it- we’ll be there” But then we held a reception in the city where DH and I lived, and invited coworkers and additional local friends. It was fine. I dont think anyone felt like they were on the “B” list. People “get” that you have to draw the line somewhere with respect to number of invitees. And its hard. For my birthday celebration, we had a tough time knowing where to stop, and I accidentally left off a few folks I’d have wanted to include. That unfortunately happens (especially with my aging brain). But we got a MUCH, MUCH bigger positive response/turnout than we had expected. It was great fun, but $$$$$$$$ Fortunately we were able to handle it. For weddings, thats not always the case, and people, I think, are respectful of that.</p>
<p>My in-laws did not host any reception for us (they lived out west, we lived in the south, the wedding was in the NE) but their families are HUGE and they had a HUGE presence at our wedding. If/when our S#1 gets engaged, he and GF are out west, and live near her family. We are on the other coast. I fully, FULLY intend to host an engagement party or post wedding reception (prefer the former) and will see which is easier for them. And I am not going to say “no gifts”. I tried that this summer. Didn’t work. ANd then those who honored it and didn’t bring a gift felt bad. I don’t want that.</p>
<p>Ok romani, sorry. I pick up a lot of hostility toward her in your posts but if you are able to not show it in your dealings with her, then good for you. I can’t help feeling a bit sorry for her since even her own husband doesn’t support her. That must be painful.</p>
<p>I hope your wedding is happy and conflict-free :)</p>
It seems to be a rocky start between you and FMIL. Hopefully either one or both of you and FMIL will have (or newly develop) some wisdom to resolve the difference in one way or another.</p>
<p>"My reaction to this idea is that if FDIL is marrying into a family which takes their faith and culture seriously (and if she doesn’t really know much about it), it would be a great idea to take the classes even if you have no intention of ever converting. "</p>
<p>I’m certainly biased because of my own family history, but there’s a big difference between “Judaism is important to groom so he wants bride to learn more” and “Judaism isn’t important to groom but groom’s parents sure wish it were.”</p>
<p>Joblue - I’ve been reading Romani’s posts for a long time. I appreciate what you’re ‘picking up on’, but there is a lot of history here. You’re placing the responsibility of peace and good will solely on Romani. There are times when people are so openly oppositional to you, your relationships, who you are fundamentally as a person, that you can be civil (as Romani is) but anything less then changing who she is (converting to Catholicism and living her life in a preconceived ideal according to her FMIL) is not going to appease her FMIL. I think you’d agree that’s not reasonable to ask of anyone. You go into any relationship hopeful you can be on good terms, make minor concessions occasionally to make that person happy, to compromise. What is not okay is to be manipulated, to have acceptance offered only if you do, think, and act how another wishes. That’s not family and I’d never expect, or advise, any of my kids to compromise themselves under those circumstances.</p>
<p>Sometimes fresh eyes can “pick up on” better than people who have been reading someone’s posts for a long time. As others have said, we are only getting one side’s story here.</p>
<p>romani, my MIL never forgave me for not being Catholic. We were married for 20 years before she died and it was always a thing for her.</p>
<p>FWIW, how I handled it was to be respectful, conduct myself the way that I thought appropriate, never step between my husband and his mother, never to ask him to take sides. I always let her behavior stand for itself. Unfortunately for her, he is a smart guy and he found her behavior unacceptable, which led to their relationship becoming completely pro forma. He did the correct and appropriate things at the appropriate times, but there was no real relationship. And I never had to do battle with him over it. Good luck.</p>
<p>“Judaism is important to groom so he wants bride to learn more” and “Judaism isn’t important to groom but groom’s parents sure wish it were.”</p>
<p>I’m aware of this situation as well, and it plays out several ways. One is that religion isn’t an issue so the couple is fine with it, or it is important to one more than the other, and they agree on one of them. The other is that people change, kids come along, and one or both people in the couple start to feel religion is more important, and it becomes a greater issue than they imagined. </p>
<p>Nobody can predict the future, which is why I personally feel that the topic should at least be discussed between a couple- along with the other “big” topics- money, children, jobs.</p>
<p>Another poster mentioned the sense of loss to the parents of the bride or groom marrying out of their religion. This is a hard situation, and it requires some flexibility or at least tolerance on the part of both parties, or as zoosermom said, the relationships can be strained.</p>
<p>Yeah, well, my grandmother dealt with my mother marrying two Jewish men by not coming to her second wedding. It hurt my mother to the core of her being. And my grandmother, who is now frail and near the end of her life, thinks she’s apologized, but she hasn’t. This is such a hot button for me personally it’s hard for me to see the other side of things.</p>
<p>"I’m aware of this situation as well, and it plays out several ways. One is that religion isn’t an issue so the couple is fine with it, or it is important to one more than the other, and they agree on one of them. The other is that people change, kids come along, and one or both people in the couple start to feel religion is more important, and it becomes a greater issue than they imagined. "</p>
<p>Still and all, that’s between the couple to address those issues.</p>
This is absolutely true oldfort. Everyone is going to have a different perspective, I shared mine. I think zoosermom has a good perspective given her experience over the years and her advise is valuable. I’ve been reading her posts for quite some time as well. </p>
<p>(Zooser - I made your famous ‘method mashers’ over the holidays. As usual my family all praised zoosers mashers! )</p>
<p>My FIL, with whom my husband was very close, didn’t come to our wedding. It wasn’t until years later that I found out that it had broken my husband’s heart. I don’t understand these things. My likely future SIL is Catholic, my daughter is not. They are both very religious, but they are negotiating now and I like what I am seeing. My husband and I don’t care what they choose as long they are both in agreement of the choice, and neither does the boyfriend’s mother. His grandmother, with whom he is very close, cares a lot, but they will have to deal with that. My mother just wants to be actually welcome at the wedding, so for once in her life she is easy.</p>
But then we held a reception in the city where DH and I lived, and invited coworkers and additional local friends. It was fine. I dont think anyone felt like they were on the “B” list. People “get” that you have to draw the line somewhere with respect to number of invitees. And its hard. For my birthday celebration, we had a tough time knowing where to stop, and I accidentally left off a few folks I’d have wanted to include. That unfortunately happens (especially with my aging brain). But we got a MUCH, MUCH bigger positive response/turnout than we had expected. It was great fun, but $$$$$$$$ Fortunately we were able to handle it. For weddings, thats not always the case, and people, I think, are respectful of that.</p>
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