<p>My mother-in-law (father-in-law deceased) met my parents on my wedding day. They became friends fast.</p>
<p>Shellfell, mazel tov on your son’s engagement!</p>
<p>My good friend’s son is getting married this spring and my friend was given a very small number of guests she can invite. She told all of us that we couldn’t be included. None of us got our panties in a twist over it. Your friends will understand. </p>
<p>I am Jewish and my H is a lapsed Catholic. We got married at my parent’s country club, under a huppah, by a Judge who was Jewish. It was a secular ceremony with a few jewish customs thrown in (we drank from my family’s wine cup and H smashed a glass (actually a light bulb) at the end of the ceremony.) For his Italian side - we carried the traditional trays of Italian cookies around during dessert.</p>
<p>I think it’s nice for the families to meet in advance but I am not sure that it’s necessary if it’s difficult. I was about to say I was glad I had our mothers meet last spring because they got along great and now that they know each other it is a lot easier to plan the wedding with both of them, since they each know the other is a nice person and there is no reason for awkwardness or hard feelings if there is a difference in opinion. But that lasted approximately five minutes, my mom doesn’t care if FMIL is a saint, she is still irate with her at the moment. Them knowing each other makes no difference to anybody. I just wish both sides would remember that I have to live with the other the rest of my life, they can be done with each other after the wedding if they embarrass themselves with their behavior and I cannot, all I want is for them to remember that.</p>
<p>I went to a whole lot of trouble to introduce all the siblings and grandparents and other very close relations and it was kind of a wasted effort because everyone came to the party and sat on opposite sides of the room, although everyone thought everyone else was perfectly lovely so far as I know. The mothers are the only ones that have interacted. Having them meet was more for my peace of mind, knowing that my families had come together and the world didn’t explode, than for any real practical purpose.</p>
<p>As for the guest list, even if that isn’t really how it plays out maybe OP can write a script to the effect of, “oh the kids are doing this themselves and they really want to keep it very small, I was only allowed to invite a very small number of people (or none at all)” for that feather unruffling she’s worried about. I think most people will accept that kind of a response. It’s common these days.</p>
<p>I guess I’m in the minority here. I understand that it is inappropriate for a parent to try to impose his/her desires or beliefs on a couple, but why is it so wrong to ask a question? Have we really destroyed the relationship between a mother and her son to the extent that asking what the couple is planning has become forbidden, or considered “meddling”? </p>
<p>I only have a daughter, so my situation may be different, but I would be hurt to be cut out of the excitement of wedding planning totally to the extent that not even a “What are you planning” question would be considered acceptable.</p>
<p>Chedva, I’m with you. Maybe it’s because I have one of those mostly quiet young adult sons who volunteers little life info. I’m learning to not take it personally since he’s equally laid back and quiet with his dad.
I won’t be trying to run his wedding in the least but I do hope I can ASK what THEIR plans are!</p>
<p>Asking (and accepting the answer) is a different matter from suggesting the son has an obligation to ensure his fianc</p>
<p>Someone has to ask questions (but not to stick around for the answer). Mr. Ellebud and I asked each other what was important to us prior to getting married. Mr. Ellebud was raised Episcopalian. I was raised as a secular Jew. We chose Jewish. As many of you know that raised quite a storm on the Ellebud side. (If you had to marry a Jew couldn’t you have chosen a rich Jew?..Fil) The kids should/must talk about this aspect of their lives together.</p>
<p>One couple we know didn’t talk about anything. First child…he came into my husband’s office and asked Mr. Ellebud when we decided. Before we got married…All sides should get together and talk. Not fight…dialogue.</p>
<p>It is marriage season here: our son is getting married to a girl who is FAR more observant than we are. We are paying…we all have discussed this: per the bride: No shellfish or pork…a vegetarian option (duh…this is California)…We were watching a game with the family of one daughter’s significant other: Father said that he like small weddings. We agree. But there is another wedding in their family…a small wedding is 400 guests…mazel tov! We are going to each wedding with joy.</p>
<p>Congrats musicmom1215. And, yes, momof3sons, I remember what happened to you when you posted about your sons wedding.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the good, if sometimes conflicting, advice.</p>
<p>We haven’t had the chance to talk to S privately this weekend. And I hate the idea of pulling him aside to do that with FDIL here. My MIL used to do that with DH, even after we were married, and it made me feel like an outsider in the family. </p>
<p>S is really involved in finishing his PhD and job hunting/interviewing. He told FDIL last night that, for the next 6 months, he could only be involved in wedding planning if she narrowed down things to 2 choices for any decision. Then he could decide his prefereence between those 2 choices. He didn’t want to get engaged until he was done with his PhD, but FDIL wanted to be engaged before her next birthday. She’s fine with getting married in 2015. She didn’t pressure him into doing something he wasn’t going to do anyway; she just moved up the timetable on the engagement. But along with that is her having to understand that his involvement in wedding planning will be limited for the next 6-8 months.</p>
<p>I am in no way looking to control or plan this wedding. I’m over the concerns with the buffet, and, yes, we’ve told S he’s likely to eat less at the reception than he thinks. I’m only wondering if a handful of people we’d like to be there will be invited, and what the ceremony will look like. Would I be happy if some Jewish customs (e.g., the chuppah, breaking the glass) were included? Sure, but I’ll be Ok if they’re not. Is it OK if they get married by a judge or justice of the peace? Yes. But if FDIL’s BIL, a minister, is performing the ceremony, then I’d also hope that a rabbi would be officiating as well.</p>
<p>DH and I would prefer to meet her parents before the wedding, but, at this point, the couple doesn’t seem to see that as a priority. Her parents being divorced may be a complicating factor. Maybe our being Jewish may not be going over so well with them (her father is a more devout Christian, altho S says he likes him). There’s still around 18 months til the wedding, so there’s time to arrange a meeting.</p>
<p>Chevda - I think you have to consider each situation individually. Also, are you really asking ‘what are you planning?’ in a genuine interest of their plans, or is it a segue to interject your own ideas, values, if the answer conflicts with what your thoughts are? What’s your endgame? If it’s simply interest in plans, this wedding is 18mos out and I’d sit tight with the thought it’s really early and I’m sure plans will be shared as they are made. If it’s not simply interest, well…I think this couple made it clear when they decided to pay themselves, then again when they turned down the offer for money from the OP, this is something they want to do themselves (read: we’ll ask for opinions if and when we want them). If alternately the OP feels strongly she needs to ‘remind’ her son that people from different faiths entering marriage should discuss how they plan to integrate both, future children, prior to marriage this is something that can wait and needs to be done carefully as “I’m not giving my opinion but if you haven’t discussed it, it’s an important discussion to have”. Six-nine before the wedding is plenty of lead time to say something. It’s my feeling that any mature young adult is going to address this and doesn’t need reminders. </p>
<p>In other words, nothing needs to be said now, the young couple will share plans as they are made, and any mention/reminder of the importance of a discussion about faith should be minimal, without opinion, and can wait.</p>
<p>It may seem that I’m picking apart the OPs motives. I do this to myself when making a decision on how to approach my adult children (or not). Sometimes I realize what I thought was ‘reasonable’ was honestly something I wanted to do or know for myself, not them. Parenting is not easy, it can be messy. I’m very imperfect and my DH calls me out on a regular basis (as I do him. Often reevaluating leads to another decision, not right or wrong just different.</p>
<p>I crossed posts with PG, following on her first point…the merging, and education of Jewish tradition, is up to the OPs son. However they decide to work this out needs to be between them, but the OP should really sit back since the FDIL shows a great willingness to embrace what’s important to the son by fasting and learning prayers. I sincerely hope the FDIL never hears/sees the OP comment on her ‘stumbling’ through prayers. Wow, she’s making an effort on many levels. This seems harsh and dismissive of the respect she’s shown. I’d be thrilled at those efforts as I would see an openness and respect for things important to my son. What greater sign could a mother want?</p>
<p>blueiguana: When I said she “stumbled” through prayers, that was a direct quote from S which they both laughed about when they lit candles together. I didn’t directly hear her say the prayers, nor would I make fun of how she did them. I’m sorry if that’s how it came across.</p>
<p>Fair enough, and thank you for clarifying. Out of context it seemed judgmental. I apologize for my statements based on that assumption.</p>
<p>shellfell - why don’t you have a conversation with the couple? Ask them what they are planning, how many people could you invite, would it be ok to have a rabbi there…? I find guys tend not to care as much or they don’t think of it, but if someone were to bring it up then it maybe,“Ah, what a great idea.” Your son may not be aware of what’s important to you and if your requests are not too outrageous he may want to include them just to make you happy. I feel wedding is a family affair. Yes, the happy couple should be the center of attention, but there are family traditions to consider, it is a rite of passage from one generation to another. I think your FDIL would have more respect for you if you were to have the conversation with both of them instead of just with your son. I would also back off if the couple is adamant about something.</p>
<p>I might be in the minority here, but as a Jewish mama, I would be lying if I pretended that it was not important to me. I respect my limits as a parent and know I have little say in who my kids choose to marry, but I have told them my opinion about discussing the big things- and religion is one of them- before the wedding. It may seem minimal when a couple is young and in love, but if and when children come along, that can raise strong emotions about how they should be raised. </p>
<p>I also feel that how a couple discusses these things is indicative about how they handle other big issues. Are they able to openly discuss their feelings honestly? Is one person afraid to speak up? Is one person compromising too much on something they feel strongly about?</p>
<p>I think religion can play a variable role in people’s lives. It’s important that they are honest with themselves and each other on that topic and being true to themselves. </p>
<p>I have seen these situations go all kinds of ways, from compatible solutions to bitter conflicts. Even if the couple resolves it, there are still both religions in the extended family and there will be the need to be respectful of family members.</p>
<p>Already the OP is concerned about it. That’s reason enough to ask about it. There’s also a line that should not be crossed- and when to bite your tongue. I will ultimately wish my kids are happy in their marriages, but, IMHO, being able to talk about the big things: religion, money, children, jobs openly and honestly is part of that happiness.</p>
<p>Being able to talk about the big things (religion, money, children, jobs) openly with your SPOUSE, or with your mother? I think you are conflating two entirely different things.</p>
<p>I am a firm believer that none of the above are any of my mother’s business beyond asking to satisfy idle curiosity, which I may or may not indulge. She is within her right to worry but not within her right to have an opinion she shares with anyone else, IMO. </p>
<p>I think it is okay for OP to ask what their plans are once the kids have had enough time to discuss it and decide for themselves, I think what people are reacting to is less the asking and more the implication that she was worried the wedding wouldn’t be Jewish enough-- which she has already explained is not her intent.</p>
<p>"It may seem minimal when a couple is young and in love, but if and when children come along, that can raise strong emotions about how they should be raised. "</p>
<p>We all come at this with our own prejudices, of course. My personal experience is that of seeing my Catholic mother marry two Jewish men (my bio dad and then my stepdad who adopted me) – where between them, religion was NEVER an issue, but a lot of hurt was engendered because in-laws couldn’t help but push their own agendas. </p>
<p>My mother,s mother didn’t come to her second wedding because “I told you not to marry a Jewish man.” Even though my stepdad was / is a good person and loved me as his own from day one. My mother has never forgiven her mother for that.</p>
<p>“I also feel that how a couple discusses these things is indicative about how they handle other big issues. Are they able to openly discuss their feelings honestly? Is one person afraid to speak up? Is one person compromising too much on something they feel strongly about?”</p>
<p>That is true, but a MIL sitting down with both kids to discuss this isn’t going to facilitate the kind of honest discussion desired. Frankly I would have said anything to have shut my ILs up about religion because I was young and in love. It was my husband and me who needed to have the full discussion, not me / my husband / his parents.</p>
<p>Wow, ema, that is very harsh. I sincerely hope my daughters never get to feel that way. We don’t agree about everything, but I love the fact that we communicate freely. My one D is a religious Protestant who is probably going to marry an observant Catholic and she freely speaks to me about her thoughts and concerns. When they do get engaged, I am confident that there will be some flash points because there is such difference between the families that after five years, we have never met. The ultimate decisions will be the couple’s, but I have always had suggestions and observations that I share with my daughter. As she does with me. Listening doesn’t necessarily imply approval, and it is possible to learn something when you listen.</p>
<p>I’ve talked about a lot of those issues with my mother, too, but I don’t feel that she was entitled to an opinion or a hand in the decision making about any of those subjects-- and neither does she, which is why we were able to discuss them. The right to push an opinion or have a hand in the decisonmaking on any of those topics is strictly between me and my spouse. I don’t believe I’ve said anything harsh at all.</p>
<p>To clarify- I meant able to talk to each other, not me. </p>
<p>I would hope that they would be able to tell me about their wedding plans- at least the basics. I don’t have stipulations about wedding plans, but it ultimately involves joining two families, and I would hope they have considered about how they would do this. In order to do this, they will need to have some discussion.</p>
<p>I know my place. I will accept whoever they marry as part of my family. It would never occur to me to not attend their wedding.</p>
<p>“I am a firm believer that none of the above are any of my mother’s business beyond asking to satisfy idle curiosity, which I may or may not indulge.”</p>
<p>I think that is pretty harsh. Maybe it is your turn of phrase, but I really hope my daughters never feel that way about me.</p>