I’d be so curious what your daughter’s opinion is of a composer applying to the music program rather than the conservatory in order to keep the flexibility to include jazz and production options open in addition to comp. My son is composing in a very modern-classical style. He is a jazz pianist. He is not focused on composing for jazz, although he can.
Woah, this is very helpful info about Loyola. Thank you! I’m wondering if your son would elaborate on the lack of collaboration among arts.
According to the info on the NPC, he would get 27K president’s scholarship and 10K need-based. That makes our cost 28K which is still too high for us. Good to know that your appeal was successful and we do plan to do that with any school.
So you don’t fill out the FAFSA every year? Is Loyola a CSS profile school?
Is your son taking industry classes as part of his requirement or is he electing those courses?
My son is a classical composer in that he composes all kinds of music, including contemporary classical, but he is not a classical instrumentalist. He’s a jazz piano player and wants to continue that craft, as well. He’s also into scoring.
I love hearing how the environment is nurturing.
Again, thanks!
My daughter does not know very much about composition specifically, but she did say that the music program is generally considered to be more flexible than the conservatory program. She thinks that this is a great question and recommends reaching out to both the school and conservatory. I believe that the music program shares composition faculty with the conservatory. The music program is non-audition and four years rather than five. The program seems to offer opportunities for student composers to have their pieces performed by Bard musicians, which is pretty cool!
1 Like
Sorry - just another name to look at. It’s not an LAC - but I think it will hit cost. I think it hits your needs but if not I apologize.
Southern Illinois only has in state tuition. Tuition, fees, room and board are $25,675 so I didn’t include books, personal, transport, etc.
A 3.8 or higher gets you $5,500 each year.
But there’s also the Chancellor Scholarship, of which they send out invites but apps are due November 1.
So not necessarily the right school - but maybe that - money is clearly most important to you, so maybe it’s another fail safe…it may not have all you want, but maybe worth a look at the website to see. Or not, your choice of course.
Incoming Freshmen | Undergraduate Academic Scholarships | SIU
1 Like
Yes, we’ve spoken to Bard admissions and they did say the faculty is the same. I do wonder if a music major would have as much composition attention as a conservatory student, but the flexibility to continue jazz piano and also learn production is great.
Thank you! I’ll take a look!
The other issue is that a BA music major has 1/4-1/3 classes in music, and a BM is 2/4-3/5 classes in music. So whetherr he does a BA in the college or a double degree as required by the Conservatory, Bard works best for students who have other academic interests.
The issue of “attention” is one to check at all schools with a BM program, if he decides to do a BA for flexibility. However, if he wants to do grad school, he can certainly have the 3-4 pieces needed for application through summer programs and other extracurricular means. I know composers who did grad school and didn’t even major in music as an undergrad. Performance is a little different of course.
Does he have other academic interests? is he interested in breadth as an undergrad or is he laser-focused on music?
2 Likes
Marshall in WV is a BFA but has your focuses. Nice small city. It’s WVs Clemson or Auburn - just meaning the 2nd public.
Just tuition, room, and board is 20,342 + 13,292.
3.9 and 1360 SAT = $14000 merit so right at $20k.
Has jazz too
https://www.marshall.edu/music/music-degree-programs/theory-and-composition/
1 Like
One school that sprung to mind was Middle Tennessee — MTSU. Fabulous music production. I’m also a fan of LoyNO. My daughter is a clarinet and loves jazz but couldn’t get her to apply there.
1 Like
I looked at mtsu and Belmont locally. Check for me please …maybe I missed but I didn’t see a way to get tuition room and board to $20k ish. But yeah it’s a great fit if you can see a path.
Missouri State if you apply for the Presidebtial Scholarship will be under $15k. It’s competitive but the profile fits.
https://www.missouristate.edu/FinancialAid/Scholarships/Freshman-policy.htm#competitive-scholarships
1 Like
Another thing to consider is that your son can enter as a music major and audition into the Conservatory later on if he changes his mind.
1 Like
He does have some academic interests but not in terms of careers as far as I know at this point. He enjoys a rigorous humanities class and he would greatly benefit from writing at the college level. The impression we got from Bard admissions is that as a music major in the liberal arts program, he can fill his schedule with music classes such that he is creating his own music rigor not unlike a conservatory schedule. Conservatory students also have the distribution requirements for liberal arts classes, as well, I believe.
Good point, although I wonder if he’d be less likely to get more merit if he transferred in rather than applying this year for conservatory? Paying for 5 years would be steep for us. I should ask admissions.
What turned her off to Nola?
I think it was the religious imagery around campus. I am an atheist (like she is) and tried to explain it away, but it just wouldn’t take. She has since graduated from a LAC with a music BA and is now in grad school and freely admits Loyno would have been a really great a school for her.
2 Likes
Bard seems like a great fit for a student with more than one musical focus! Composers especially benefit from studying art history, literature, social sciences etc. since these subjects often inspire work (and right now most prizes seem to go to topical works!). Bard, like other schools, is working to provide access and diversity beyond the traditional Euro-centric “old masters.” I was curious about the difference between the double degree program in the Conservatory and the Music BA program and the requirements are below. (Does a composer really need extensive aural training these days with playback?!) I am genuinely interested in how the college described making a schedule that approximates the Conservatory, and how many more non-music classes he will be required to take in the college. I couldn’t tell!
Bard composition major for BA- It looks like it requires 15 classes (including 1 workshop each year? if the workshop is for credit…if workshop is only once then 12 credits total) with total classes for the degree being 40? With electives it could be a pretty full music schedule- maybe 50% of classes- depending on distribution requirements.
- Three semesters of music theory past first-year theory, at least one of which should be a course analyzing music after 1910
- Two semesters of music history
- Two semesters of lessons on an instrument (unless prior proficiency can be demonstrated)
- Orchestration
- Composition workshop
- An electronic music course (Some of our electronic courses are designed with the acoustic composer in mind.)
Here is the Bard Conservatory Core Curriculum requirements for the 5 year BM/BA, which includes both music and non-music classes:
- A minimum of 160 credits, at least 64 of which must be taken at Bard.
- A minimum of 40 credits outside the division of BA major.
- Every student must take two semesters of First-Year Seminar. Transfer students may be exempt.
- Every student must be promoted to the Upper College by passing moderation.
- Every student must complete an acceptable BA Senior Project in a field other than music.
- Distribution requirements: one course from each of the appropriate distribution areas.
- Studio instruction (CNSV 100) in every semester of enrollment for performance majors. Composition tutorial (CNSV 102) in every semester of enrollment for composition majors. Studio instruction and Composition tutorial carries 4 credits.
- Orchestra (CNSV 112) in every semester of enrollment for performance majors. Orchestra carries 0 credits.
- Chamber Music: for all first-year Conservatory students: First-Year Conservatory Forum (CNSV108) for the fall semester of the first year. For the nine subsequent semesters of enrollment, for performance majors: Chamber Music (CNSV 110). Students may request a WAIVER for two semesters, by filling out the form and notifying the Chamber Music Coordinator before the first week of classes for the semester in question. (2 cr)
- Core Sequence in Theory, Analysis, and Composition (CNSV 140, 240, 330, 332) four semesters (4 credits each):
CNSV 140: Diatonic Harmony and Single Species Counterpoint
CNSV 240: Chromatic Harmony and Combined Species Counterpoint
CNSV 330: Contemporary Composition
CNSV 332: Conservatory Seminar
The order indicated by the numbering is strongly recommended, except that CNSV 330 and CNSV 332 may be taken in either order. - Aural Skills (CNSV 308, 309) two semesters, 2 credits per course. Some students may require supplementary studies to bring them up to the level of CNSV Aural Skills. They may take a Music Program Theory class. Some students may test out of the classes.
- Music History: two semesters/courses of 4 credits per course. (MUS 264-265 in Language and Literature of Music are recommended, as preparation for graduate school entrance exams). With prior approval, students may choose courses from the Music Program’s history offerings.
- Senior Recital Seminar (CNSV 403) 4 cr- includes recital preparation and program note writing, concert production, with a performance forum.
Performance Requirements and Assessments: (for students entering fall 2019, and after.)
- First Year Jury
- Second Year Jury
- Third Year Midpoint Recital
- Fourth Year Off-Campus Recital
- Fifth Year Degree Recital and Promotional
Additional Composition Electives
- Follow the Lieder: Writing for the Voice in the 21st Century
- Composing for Film: Aesthetics & Techniques
- 20th Century Compositional Technique
- Introduction to Electronic Music
- Electroacoustic Composition Seminar
- The Recording Studio as a Compositional Tool
- Topics in Music Software: Introduction to Max/Msp
3 Likes
I don’t post much anymore because my info is so out of date. But, when my son was at Bard, the opportunities for composers in the college vs the conservatory were almost identical. The difference was the second degree, and available merit scholarship money from the conservatory.
I believe since then they may have added opportunities for conservatory composers which weren’t there previously. But I don’t know.
The attention and access to faculty in the past, for composers, was identical. It is very different for instrumentalists where the professors are not shared, and it is difficult for a college musician to study an instrument with a conservatory professor.
4 Likes
Thanks for that info. We are Jewish but my son is fairly oblivious to religious anything so I don’t think he’ll mind the imagery. I do wonder if a selective LAC would also work for him if it had enough music offerings. Did you daughter find the LAC option to work?
If he has high stats, he might want to consider USC, which should have everything he wants musically. They have merit scholarships ranging up to full-tuition, and they also have fairly reasonable need-based financial aid.
2 Likes
Yes it worked out well in the end. I’ll shoot you a DM with the name of her school and what she ended up doing.
1 Like