As previously mentioned, you can put a stop to that by limiting how much time he spends on homework.
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Here is my take away…this kid doesn’t know HOW to study efficiently. It shouldn’t take this long to do the studying he is doing.
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And as they say, when one tries something repeatedly and it doesn’t work, it’s time to try something else.
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OP- this is really sad. Don’t you want to be the grownup here and put an end to the endless and unproductive homework treadmill?
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I wonder about perfectionism or even OCD, as I mentiioned before. Sorry to add to the endless speculation.
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@anne_1973 : I have a 2E kid who tests in the highly gifted range, but has very severe dyslexia, a visual processing disorder, and ADHD. I had to have her assessed twice. The first assessor had no experience with 2E kids and failed to properly test and diagnose her. The assessor did not understand what stealth dyslexia was and honestly, it was a waste of money to have gone to her–but at that time, I did not know any better.
Upon posting my kid’s issues here on CC, another poster PM’d me and recommended I look into having my kid assessed by someone they used at The Gifted Development Center, located in Colorado. About — Gifted Development Center. So, I contacted The Gifted Development Center (“The GDC”) and had my kid assessed a second time, using some different assessments/testing. The GDC has been around since 1979 and they assess gifted people of all ages. This assessment was performed by a person specializing in assessing dyslexia and 2E kids. This second assessor properly diagnosed my kid and really saved her sanity.
Having someone well qualified in assessing 2E kids made all the difference in the world to us and was absolutely necessary for us to get a proper diagnosis of my daughter’s issues.
Subsequent to this second assessment, I was able to secure appropriate accommodations for my kid and she was able to better complete her school work and perform well on her tests, by virtue of her being given some extra time on her exams, since she reads very slowly and has trouble processing the letters. Ultimately, my kid attended a top university, securing a full tuition scholarship, and now attends grad school in one of the top math PhD programs in the country. I do not believe any of this would have happened had I not had her properly assessed. She was so much happier and much less stressed once she knew why she was having so many issues in school.
At the very least, I am wondering if someone at the Gifted Development Center could take a look at the assessment(s) that you have and give you an opinion as to what they think is going on, as well as make any suggestions as to what, if any, further testing may be needed. The woman who tested my daughter has retired I think, but you can talk to Dr. Silverman there and see what she thinks.
You can feel free to PM me, if you want more specifics.
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I’m wondering if he is trying to passively study - read it over and over until he gets it, etc - and since it doesn’t work well it takes forever to feel like he knows it. OP, has he ever studied with somebody - a family member or classmate? Could he pick a subject (other than math) and write 10 questions and answers for the unit’s material? Does he make flash cards or rewrite notes or write potential questions and try to answer them or any other active technique? I didn’t really learn how to study until my junior year of college, and once I did my preparation got easier even as classes got harder.
Interesting. I’d have to ask about that.
Yes… I think that during his Senior Year we’ll likely put a pause to the long hours.
I know that in math and science classes, he studies by solving practice problems. When he needs to memorize, he uses flashcards or Quizlet. I don’t know if he rewrites notes, however. He always complains that solving practice problems doesn’t help him solve future problems but that “his teacher recommends he solves problems to study.”
As an example, before every Math test, he receives a packet of 20 practice problems (with solutions) from his teacher, the practice problems are like what is on the tests. My understanding of what he does, is that he tries the practice problems and if he can’t solve the practice problem then he’ll look at the first step of the solution. If he still can’t solve it, then he’ll look at the second step of the solution, rinse and repeat. This method does not help him understand the material.
Thank you so much. I will take a look. at this.
My son has always been a quick reader, so I doubt it’s anything related to dyslexia, but there is likely some underlying issue.
@anne_1973 is it mainly math that is taking up all this time? Dyscalculia?
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If math only…I think it’s not dysgraphia. @compmom is this what you meant?
Dyscalculia is a math learning disability that impairs an individual’s ability to learn number-related concepts, perform accurate math calculations, reason and problem solve, and perform other basic math skills. Dyscalculia is sometimes called “number dyslexia” or “math dyslexia.”
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I agree it does not sound like dyslexia, but there could be something going on that the first evaluator did not pick up on. If I were you, I’d consider getting input from a professional who has experience in assessing a 2E child (not sure if your son’s assessor had this experience). Prior to my daughter’s first evaluation, I had never heard of twice exceptional and had no idea what to look for in an assessor. The CC poster who PM’d me with her experiences really helped me so much by enlightening me and pointing me in the right direction.
Getting the correct diagnosis for my daughter changed the course of her life for the better. I think it’s worth a second look at your son to make sure nothing was missed. But it is important, in my opinion, to ensure that if you have him reevaluated, that you secure the services of someone with demonstrated experience with 2E kids. I can not stress to you how important this is.
Don’t give up and always follow your gut. If I had accepted my daughter’s first eval and not pursued it further, I know my daughter would have been able to follow the path she is now on. I am glad your son has you as his advocate and I hope that you are able to get to the bottom of this and figure out what is going on.
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OP what is your son doing this summer?
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In my experience, that’s a great approach for practicing material that you already understand, or maybe cementing material that you are a bit confused on, but it won’t help you to understand something new. As an example…I’m a homeschool mom who has helped 2 kids through geometry so it’s relatively fresh in my mind. If a kid gets stuck on a problem, I could figure it out using that approach if I didn’t immediately see the answer because seeing that they started by showing that 2 angles were equal would clue me in to start looking for congruent triangles or equal arcs. But, I’ve never taken linear algebra (my math stopped after Calc 3). I couldn’t use that approach to figuring out a linear algebra problem because I don’t have the knowledge already in my head - seeing one step wouldn’t trigger any idea about what the next step would be because I wouldn’t understand what the first step meant. One of my kids tends to want to approach math by skimming over the lecture/reading part and going straight to the problems and when this happens it causes the work to take longer. Using the approach of figuring out what the goal of the section is (learning different ways to show that 2 triangles are congruent - SAS, ASA, etc) clues you in to what you should be looking for in the problem. Once the student can say ‘I’m asked to show that angles B and Y are equal…I probably need to find triangles that contain both that are congruent…how can I show that these triangles are congruent?’ then they’re on the right track.
Quizlet can be useful if a student uses it actively - if they just read the questions and answers it’s still passive and not terrible useful, but if they actively try to recall the answer for each question then it can be good. It’s why I asked about writing his own questions or making his own quizlet - the act of figuring out what is important is useful for studying. While you try to figure this out, I recommend Barbara Oakley’s book ‘Learning How to Learn’. It’s written to a middle school audience so it’s an easy read but the ideas in it are good. Every student will find their own approach as to what works best, but there are good tips.
When I was a student, I finally figured that the best approach was for me to make a ‘cliff notes’ version of my notes. I came across it accidentally. I was in the marching band and we had a road game but i needed to study on the bus. I made an easy-to-transport version of my notes work with and found that the act of rewriting and organizing them was a useful part of studying. If something was mentioned multiple times, all of that was consolidated to one section of the notes about the topic. If I didn’t understand something, I looked it up in the book or otherwise asked questions - nothing went into the notes until I could understand it. Then I would ‘teach’ the material - it might be helping a classmate to understand it in a study group but it might also be me just sitting with a small whiteboard, picking a topic and trying to explain it in my own words. There’s an idea with computer people about teaching a rubber duck and small kids explain things to pets or stuffed animals.
You might be dealing with one of the disabilities described above, but I’m passionate about students trying different ways of studying to see if something helps. Personal disclosure - I nearly failed freshman chemistry in college. My now-husband taught me the entire semester’s worth of material in 3 days, when I needed an A on the final to get a B in the class once my lowest test grade was dropped. He was confused - how could somebody lost enough to be in that shape, grade-wise, learn it all in 3 days? It turned out that the problem was that I was studying incorrectly. I was doing great in biology, math, and English because I approached them correctly. But, I wasn’t treating chemistry like a math class when I needed to be practicing problems rather than memorizing definitions, among other miscues. I also wonder if your son is missing foundational material for some classes so that he’s relearning everything from scratch each time. I’ve had students do this - we learn the parts of the cell, and they promptly forget them, so that when we go into detail about DNA or photosynthesis they have to relearn the information about the relevant organelles. If this has gone on for years, or if there is a missing understanding of some foundational material (not really understanding algebra but being in precalc, for instance) it can make everything really challenging. I see the simple version of this with the young kids that I volunteer with - they don’t really understand multiplication, so they are at a loss as to how to do division or find an equivalent fraction. If it isn’t remedied, by the end of the year they now don’t understand multiplication, division, or fractions.
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Sorry of course…dyscalculia! Edited…
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My daughter has this. It’s not fun since she “wants” to be able to do advance math but just can’t.
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So I might not be describing this perfectly but… My sons school used the University of Chicago math process. Forgot what it was called. But he never did many math problems. The way I remember it was taught was to learn to solve certain specific problems or issues. He never had many problems to solve. Not like when I was in school and you did 10,000 problems basically all the same to learn a new concept. Their theory was once you can solve the one and you understand it then it can be applied over and over. Their first year they also “wrote” math out almost like scientific papers.
My point is maybe a new approach. Not every kid learns the same way. If he’s struggling with math concepts and it’s too hard maybe a career that is math focused isn’t the way to go then?
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@Knowstuff I am glad you brought this up. For a time, I worked with a group started by an MIT professor to advocate for changes in the way math was being taught (yes, Chicago math, I believe, was one of the curricula). I taught math facts and other “traditional” arithmetic at home. I think both approaches have some validity but as you say, every kid learns differently.
To bring it back to @anne_1973 I wonder if this issue is relevant at all-? Is there a better way to learn math for your son?
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