Neuropsychological testing can include auditory processing, but it is looked at in the context of a comprehensive evaluation that looks at many cognitive functions.
My uneducated bet is that he’s on the spectrum. He is just so much like a cross between my two nephews who were diagnosed as Asperger’s in the late 90s. He is more like one in particular, who is very high functioning and was able to get a degree in engineering and is looking to move to China. He was an exchange student there for a year in HS. The culture is one of his passions since he was very young.
He had very high early intelligence, but did not do particularly well in school. He struggled to make friends. Apparently, he has an easier time in China. He is very happy to talk about the topics HE finds interesting. He’ll talk for hours about that. But small talk? forget it. What others find interesting? Forget it.
The GPS thing I don’t find odd at all. For some people, it’s like turning on the radio, buckling the seat belt, and turn the GPS on. I think my kids might do it. It’s a habit, and it can be useful if traffic/accidents occur.
The having trouble learning from teacher’s talking… I have the same thing. (and note that my Dad is definitely on the spectrum. My brother is most likely as well. In the last couple of years, I’ve read some checklists and noted that I also have very many traits, though I seem to have much better social awareness than others on the spectrum. I just don’t like being social, but I can fake it when needed.) But getting back to the auditory thing. It may not be a hearing issue. It could likely be like me - my mind just wanders when people talk and I have nothing else to focus on. For this reason, I can not listen to song lyrics. I just can’t. Audiobooks? Forget it. I do listen to German podcasts while I run. I have to focus hard to listen and I seem to be OK for awhile, then my mind wanders. I just tell myself to do the best I can and it’s just a hobby.
But in class, what worked for me is to write while the teacher is talking. Notes are probably the best, but even doodling on a piece of paper makes me focus on what they’re saying.
I do agree with others and getting him away from the books is a good thing. Try to find other activities that may be outside his comfort zone, but will help him adapt to being social around others.
Edit: the not participating in class. I never ever participated in class. Fortunately, in my day, it was brushed off as just being shy and grades were not dependent on it. I also remember in one humanities class in college, I never said a word. My thoughts were just so far from what others were talking about, I didn’t bother. I just wrote my papers. My teacher gave me A+s on all of them. Thank goodness nobody cared about participation back then! So I guess I don’t see that as problematic per se, either… except if it does count for your grade. Had that been the case for me, I would have forced myself to say just enough to count. But I would have dreaded and hated every second of it
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Maybe this was disussed before but what do his teachers say?
Could it actually be the something about the school he is in?
He clearly has high intelligence.
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OP- what do you think about the comments that have been made regarding the autism spectrum? I believe that this could possibly explain some of what you are saying.
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That information often doesn’t make it into the final report, based on my experience with my own children and in reading many of these reports through my work (I am a clinical social worker and specialize in working with neurodivergent children).
Many folks can include auditory processing tests in their battery…but really…only a qualified audiologist can actually diagnose an Auditory Processing Disorder (APD) because this involves an audiological battery of tests and most folks other than specialized audiologists do not have the necessary equipment to do these evaluations.
But often, there are markers in other assessments, and a suggestion for an APD eval is made. BUT first a regular hearing test needs to be done (also by an audiologist).
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I had another thought about the studying… If he is on the spectrum and like me… Sometimes I say that I have two brains and one part runs 100mph 24-7. It never ever stops. It’s always in the background thinking and spinning about whatever. But I can use the regular part to live my life as usual…
I think this is why just listening to teachers/songs/etc is so tough. My brain gets bored and the other half takes over. But when it came to studying, I could not ever work in a quiet room. A library would have been the kiss of death for my academic career. A TV was best with something somewhat boring like golf or baseball. It allowed my other half of my brain to focus on that and my regular brain could work as needed.
And how I figured out everything? I have no idea. I just knew what worked. And I grew up with straight As all through school and almost all through college. I had a 3.9 in civil engineering in the day when As weren’t as easy to come by. But I also cared a LOT about getting those As. Much more than I should have.
But my brother, who is likely more like your son (and his - the high functioning nephew). His IQ is technically higher than mine, but he never did well in school. Unfortunately, he was younger than me and my sister, and my parents didn’t know what to do with him. They pushed him very hard when he didn’t do well. And long story short, his relationship with them is very strained with VERY limited contact. So please don’t push him too hard about being perfect!
(And I will brag about my brother a bit to say that while he had Cs in elementary school, Bs in middle, Bs with a few As in high school… By college, he graduated with a double major in ME/EE with a minor in computer science (at age 21) while raising an infant son and working part time to support his family. )
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I really see absolutely no issue at all with this at home or in the car. I don’t know why on earth you have a problem with it. I use Google Maps every day BECAUSE I LIKE IT. I use it at HOME! On my phone! On my laptop! In the car! It’s a useful tool. I can check out where a good restaurant is or what the capital of Djibouti is or use it to help me do the Worldle or the Globle. Or while driving to avoid traffic jams. Or to look at satellite imagery or to explore a city across the world just because I am interested in it. I’m interested in the world and Google Maps is great.
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Great! He has a plan for his future. I think this is a better point to focus on than his GPA.
The boy’s current GPA is much lower than his SAT score suggests. This GPA is likely a big obstacle on his way to top 20/30 colleges. You (and he) can spend your time and effort trying to raise his GPA, or you can accept that his high school GPA would be A- or B+ and plan from here.
I teach high school, and I think GPA is a poor indicator of a student’s knowledge or potential. I currently have a junior in my class who is very smart but his grade stays at B. He barely does any homework yet misses very few questions on unit tests. Another student has A the entire year because he does all the homework even though he only gets 50-60% on unit tests (school requires teachers to offer retakes).
The school grading system is designed to benefit the majority of the students. Your son is an outlier. If he is my student, I would suggest that you and him put your energy in researching colleges that fit him (where he will find like-minded peers and make friends), and crafting his application essay to reflect his strengths.
My understanding is Grad schools care about GRE scores, major course grades, and TA/RA work experiences. High school GPA is close to irrelevant.
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Again… there is nothing wrong with using Google maps. We use it all the time.
Given my background and profession… there is a reason for my questions and comments.
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@NEMom26 “ That information often doesn’t make it into the final report, based on my experience with my own children and in reading many of these reports through my work (I am a clinical social worker and specialize in working with neurodivergent children).”
Typically reports are written to address the referral question. Nowadays it seems that we have been encouraged to write briefer and briefer reports. Back “in the day” reports could sometimes be 15 +/- pgs long. I have seen longer. Nowadays reports are typically much briefer, especially if they are going into a medical record (eg referred by a physician and/or in a hospital setting) and often there is now a summary on the first page, not at the end. The test scores and subtest scores should always be included (I did a summary sheet at the end- I used to put them in the body of the report within each subsection, but found that a score sheet summary at the end was more practical). When I wrote reports (am retired now) the results section went modality by modality (eg intellectual function, memory, language, processing, attention, executive function, etc) then followed by a summary and recommendations (mine were at the end). So the results should be there, even if summarized. So if there is a specific question about findings/data interpretation, I agree with those who say reaching back out to the neuropsychologist is the thing to do. It is unlikely that a neuropsychologist would administer a test and not include its results in the report.
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To the OP:
You literally have the “A” team on this thread.
Many are teachers, medical clinicians, and people with knowledge about these things.
So, what are your next steps? Is any of this helpful?
Just curious and I wish the best for your son.
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And people who- by trial and error- managed to launch their own child, even after YEARS of teachers claiming “Johnny isn’t living up to his potential” or “Susie could be an A student if only she (fill in the blanks)”. Or “Barry is smarter than every other kid in the class but you wouldn’t know it from his class participation”.
Sometimes helping your kid develop the non-intellectual aspects of being human- kindness, giving back, being a good citizen and family member, being patient with people who have challenges in their lives-- is the key to unlocking that potential.
Do any of us sit at a funeral and hear “Mark had a perfect GPA and high scores on standardized tests”? No. We listen to the stories of the people Mark helped, the issues he championed, the times he stood up for what he knew was right, GPA be damned.
You can’t raise a one-dimensional child and expect them to launch successfully. All the tutoring in the world won’t do it.
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Another thought that could be completely off base…my older has a former teammate who started college this year. Kid is on the spectrum and has ADHD but had done well in a small supportive high school and looked to be in good shape for college. He wound up failing a couple of classes. It turned out to be a two-fold problem. First, he didn’t have the executive function to manage multiple platforms that were used for classes. If he had to click in different places for different classes to find assignments, he couldn’t do it. Second, the interpretation needed to do humanities classes at the college level was too difficult due to his autism. He could answer questions like ‘Where did the character go?’ or ‘What are the 3 types of X?’ but ‘Why did the character seem upset?’ or ‘What might a person in this situation be feeling/thinking?’ weren’t questions that he had any insight into. I don’t know if either of these apply, but I thought they were worth mentioning. This kid is switching to an associates program that won’t require the humanities classes, and is likely to find more success with that path.
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Yes, he actually does watch TV/movies with closed captioning. I haven’t noticed that he struggles to follow conversations in a crowd, though. Interesting, thank you.
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I’m not qualified/certified to give a professional opinion; my answer comes purely from personal experience. My only studies in the subject were 30+ years ago when I did my thesis on “gifted underachievers.” It happens more than you think. Things like subject boredom, learning styles and undiagnosed LDs can impact success in the classroom. I was inspired to study it because of my brother, brilliant guy, 2.5 HS gpa. In his case, he couldn’t concentrate on “boring” topics or topics he felt were a “waste of time.” He felt the class discussions were below where his mind was idling. He’d sit for hours trying to get through some subjects; he’d actually get angry for having to “waste” his time on certain subjects. However, put him in his EC’s and he excelled. To this day he has no problem learning and excelling at his craft (Aeronautical Engineer) but throw in something like a new management course, and he’s back to his HS days.
My own kiddo (ASD/ADHD/APD) takes many, many, many hours to do homework, always has. Sometimes it takes a long time because she isn’t interested in the material; sometimes it takes a long time because she IS interested. She becomes hyper focused on a topic and has trouble just walking away. Couple that with OCD and it’s a nightmare doing homework. She’s used tools like Livescribe pens and speech-to-text software. When she was in HS, we encouraged her to only take AP classes in subjects she loved, for her that was Math and science. She cannot learn through lecture because of APD (auditory processing disorder), so she teaches herself after class through the use of the textbook, speech-to-text, videos, etc. This has carried into college, so there have been times she’s had to lower the number of credit hours; it’s not because of the difficulty of the material, but the time it takes to in essence re-teach herself the material. Interestingly enough, it doesn’t affect her at work. She flies successfully through her tasks and is left with alot of down time because of it. Last summer she finished a summer’s worth of projects in a few weeks at her internship; they had to keep making up projects to give her, so her diagnoses don’t seem to affect her real-world/hands-on abilities.
Is he bored in class or with some subjects? Do you notice a difference with subjects he’s really into? You mentioned he doesn’t learn through lecture; as others have mentioned, has he been tested for APD by a specialist? There are many things that could be going on; what is his take on the situation?
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I’m not sure if anyone suggested this, but OP may want to check the schools math re: the GPA. One year our school had a software issue and an error in its calculations. My kid went from a 3.1 to a 3.3.
And setting aside potential diagnoses etc, this same kid finished his first year of life sciences with a 3.9 GPA. (!)
So there is something to be said for simple maturation/kids figuring out how best to study in order to succeed in subjects that capture their interests.
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Are his grades due to his performance on exams/quizzes, or for something like not turning in his homework?
I know lots of smart kids who leave their completed homework in their backpacks, or under their bed.
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This is a tough challenge. While a 3.13 is not a bad GPA, it is unusual for a kid with a 1580 SAT. One of my kids was somewhat similar, although his GPA was higher and he took mostly honors and AP classes, his GPA was not in line with where it should have been given his IQ and SAT scores. When he was in 4th grade, his teacher said that he would catch him reading a book under his desk but when he was asked a question, always knew the answer. He just didn’t really care much about grades and thought Bs were fine. He got into a decent college and did OK, but again not great and is fully launched at this point.
I highly doubt it is truly taking him 8 hours per day to do homework, especially if he is not taking challenging classes. While he may not be on other websites, he may also just be daydreaming, looking at a book, or otherwise not focusing on the schoolwork because it is boring.
The neuropsych testing may be off due to his very high IQ. One paper I found in a quick google serach indicated that the Card Sorting may not be The testing may be interesting enough for his hyperfocus to kick in (like on the SAT) and allow him to concentrate and do well. However, on mundane and boring schoolwork, he can’t. Check out some of the Twice Exceptional research (Davidson Institute has some).
The bottom line is at this age he really needs to be the one figuring this out, with your help. He needs to be honest about how he is studying. I would set a time limit for the homework. I would also see if there is something he can do this summer to get him away from the computer, volunteering, working, or, even a computer /math type class or camp that would have him interacting with like-minded kids. Even going to something like a Friday Night Magic games at a local card shop could be a good social event for him.
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This is a conundrum.
While I agree with PPs that his grades aren’t very low, just not great, and will get him into college…however:
They are very much lower than they should be compared to his ability scores, IQ, SAT, PSAT, all above the 99th percentile IIRC, the classic discrepancy between ability and achievement that screams learning disability.
A kid with his IQ shouldn’t struggle to get an A in something that he’s interested in, shouldn’t spend the whole weekend on homework, shouldn’t struggle with understanding concepts. That’s the whole point of high IQ scores: you are good at understanding concepts.
A kid with this IQ might be bored if they’re too easy (classic underachiever dilemma) but high IQ underachievers don’t spend whole weekends on homework. They might struggle to put their understanding to paper, they might be unable to focus on essays or projects, they might be unable to do and hand in their homework on time or at all, they might have personality clashes with teachers, they might have pathological demand avoidance if they’re in the spectrum, they might dive too deeply and process too slowly…
But as a rule they can dial it up for a test. Been there done that, as a student myself, as a parent of a kid like this…
The easy answers, however, appear to have been ruled out. It seems to be more complicated. Agree you absolutely need to dig deeper in what the neuropsych found, maybe demand another consultation, and do keep in mind that very high IQ can mask other difficulties in neuropsych testing,
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