Need advice about child/drugs

<p>^^ This kid has a lot more going on with him than the selling of the drugs but even that points to a serious problem with his decision making. The kid is apparently making a lot of bad choices including failing out of college, doing illegal drugs, selling illegal drugs, and that’s only what we know about but when someone has a recent track record of very poor decisions they’re on a downward spiral that needs to be addresses somehow in an attempt to stop it. The ‘somehow’ is the difficult part.</p>

<p>This kid does have a drug problem whether one thinks he’s physically addicted or not. Once one lets the drugs control them, starts revolving their life around the drugs, and starts taking risky behavior for the drugs, they have a drug problem.</p>

<p>I also agree that it is a HUGE danger to you as homeowners to have this young man living or anywhere on your premises. The current US drug forfeiture laws allow the US government to go after property owners if illegal drugs are found on their premises. In this case, you have caught this man TWICE, which makes it likely that he will be caught by authorities as well in the near future. (We have a family friend who has made a big name for herself with our local US Attorney’s office by enforcing the drug forfeiture laws, even when the property owners were not themselves selling anything illegal.)</p>

<p>I would say that “tough love” is required and you need to tell this young man that he cannot come to your house, much less live in it with ANY illegal drugs. Would kick him out, change the locks and not give him any keys to your home or vehicles.</p>

<p>[Tough</a> Love: Families Dealing with Drug Addiction - ABC News](<a href=“Is 'Financial Tough Love' the Right Approach for Drug Addicts? - ABC News”>Is 'Financial Tough Love' the Right Approach for Drug Addicts? - ABC News) is an article with some resources.</p>

<p>Allowing this person access to your home and vehicles enables him to continue and endangers you & everyone living in your home.</p>

<p>

I keep hearing this as well. But, my theory is that those who regularly smoke pot do it for some reason, and I suspect that reason is b/c what it represents. They may like the social aspects where this probably started and of course the high, and they keep going from there.</p>

<p>let’s not get too caught up in the “pot isn’t that bad” mentality. while for many it isn’t, it would seem for this young man, he’s not doing too well. first one needs to determine what he’s really up to, because he may in fact be abusing other substances. get an assessment done, and then go from there. not buying the “entrepreneur” perspective. anyway if he is a successful entrepreneur then he should do fine on his own, no?</p>

<p>“let’s not get too caught up in the “pot isn’t that bad” mentality. while for many it isn’t, it would seem for this young man, he’s not doing too well.”</p>

<p>and you’re blaming it on him smoking pot? I don’t think that is the cause of this kid’s behavior, I think it’s his general attidue. Plenty of students flunk out of school. This guy probably did bad in school, flunked out, and now is selling pot because it is easier/cooler for him than getting a regular job. </p>

<p>I never said that he was a succesful entrepreneur (obviously not!). Just that he
may view himself as one (as he found an easy way to make money and doesn’t have to go to college and/or work a regular job) and therefore efforts to make him see the error of his ways are better undertaken from that perspective and not the “drugs are bad for you & you’re addicted” angle,Got to rehab! </p>

<p>"keep hearing this as well. But, my theory is that those who regularly smoke pot do it for some reason, and I suspect that reason is b/c what it represents. They may like the social aspects where this probably started and of course the high, and they keep going from there. "</p>

<p>Absolutly. Personally, I think pot rarely ruins lives (unlike alcohol and other illegal substances). It seems that for him, pot “represents” a way to make easy money & he may even like the coolness factor that he thinks he’s now got (at least that’s what I got from the OP’s post).</p>

<p>So what is the consensus? What would you do if your child already has a felony and is on probation for a crime that is not related to drugs? I so want to be the tough parent and stop enabling him, but he’s already struggling with his felony. I fear how he’d cope then. Please advise.</p>

<p>Sorry DT for your loss.</p>

<p>PS, I am NOT a ■■■■■. This is real, but it is such a complicated issue that involves our whole family but we need your input. I’m finally no longer “just” reading.</p>

<p>I am so sorry for your loss, DocT.</p>

<p>Udontnome, that is such a hard question to answer. I think my fear would be that getting him arrested might make it even harder to get clean, due to the stigma (hard to get a decent job, if/when he does try to get one) and also . . . I have always heard that drugs are traded around a lot in prison? So I wonder if he would just end up with even more connections to the “drug world.”</p>

<p>Well a successful drug dealer generates a lot of cash and his suppliers and customers all know that. The dealer can’t go to the police if robbed and that makes him an inviting target to be robbed of his cash and/or product. So, then comes the illegal firearm “just in case.” Google the recent TCU drug bust for an example of the armament.</p>

<p>And, the relatives of dealers make convenient targets for revenge, hostages and “warnings.”</p>

<p>Thanks Naturally. </p>

<p>I seriously doubt his drug issues are deep, but it’s still there. He calls his issues are “a hobby” !!! Just not sure what to do. I know he’s doing this because he’s stuck and doesn’t see a “way out”. This just makes it worse.</p>

<p>Udon’tnome How about inpatient rehab? Change the locks while he is gone, he only gets a key as long as he stays in the program and stays clean. You are in a tough situation, can you contact an attorney for advice, or Al Anon?</p>

<p>DocT, I am sorry for your loss, my sympathies to you and your family.</p>

<p>I think Al Anon is for families of alcoholics. Maybe I should go there anyway, but we’re mostly coping with pot-smoking. </p>

<p>I fear that our son already knows what he should and shouldn’t do, and therefore, getting in touch with our attorney probably won’t have much impact. In fact, since it’s illegal, I’m even less inclined to share that much information. </p>

<p>To that point, I also worry about establshing an inpatient rehab. It’s just that he’s putting us in an impossible spot and I don’t know how to change that. He’s the only one who can improve his situation and anything we seem to be doing is enable him.</p>

<p>DocT, so sorry about the death of your S. I’m sure that was excruciatingly painful to watch his descent and learn of his death. Allowing a person who is breaking laws by selling illegal drugs like pot endangers EVERYONE who lives with this person, as well as the premises. It makes the premises an attractive target (as posted above), as well as making the premises subject to drug forfeiture laws, even if the owners are NOT involved in the drug dealing.</p>

<p>Allowing a drug dealer to live in your home and break your already stated rules about not having illegal drugs on your premises IS ENABLING, as is giving him/her funds or other resources. Would look for inpatient rehab programs in your area–give him a choice of really committing to & taking the rehab (which I would pay for), leaving voluntarily immediately, or getting arrested. There really aren’t other good options, unfortunately. Everyone I’ve spoken to or read about who had a loved ones with these issues eventually had to face these choices, tough and sad as it is. Sadly, most folks really have to hit bottom before they will decide it’s time to make a change and dig out of the deep hole they’ve fallen into.</p>

<p>It is CRUCIAL for both parents (& all other family members) to be absolutely firm and united about this.</p>

<p>Al-Anon type meetings may be helpful or refer you to other helpful resources in your area to support you through these tough times.</p>

<p>It really doesn’t matter what any of us think of “pot” or other things that are illegal–they ARE illegal, which creates a lot of issues described in this thread.</p>

<p>whatdidyou—you quoted only a portion of my statement. I don’t blame anything on one other thing, life is not that simplistic. I suggested an evaluation with an expert in addictions, to determine what is going on with this young man, as often there is more to the picture than marijuana alone.</p>

<p>DocT, I too am so sorry for your loss.</p>

<p>I feel as though prison saved my brother’s life, but it was a tough way to get clean. He served more than 12 years during the prime of his life.</p>

<p>Anyway, I did not read through the entire thread, so forgive me if I am repeating. What most drug dealers do not realize is that many of the drug laws are conspiracy and the police, state, or federal agents do not have to catch you with anything; they only have to catch someone who is willing to testify against you. Now in my very limited experience, the addict does not think he/ she will be caught, and often when they are caught, their convoluted reasoning clouds their judgment to the point that they do not even think their lawyer is giving them good advice.</p>

<p>I do not know what I would do if I were in the OP’s place. I did take my then pre-teen son to visit my brother in federal prison in hopes of making a point to him. I wish the OP the best, and I do think getting him out of your home is a good idea.</p>

<p>I don’t know all the details of these situations and every situation is different, but I have fostered many troubled kids and in my experience, a kid (or adult) will not change behaviors until they want to change. For some, it’s the experience of going to jail for the first time, others continue until they hit bottom (homelessness, overdose, injury/shootings, etc). I have seen some under 18s turned around by wilderness camp/behavioral ranch, but since you can’t force an over 18 to do something like that… I did have one kid who got a 2nd DUI after 18 and was given the choice by the judge to enlist in the military (but then got kicked out of basic). </p>

<p>I would definitely never allow anyone involved in illegal activities to live under my roof. You lose that right when you break the law. If I could establish that the kid is attempting to rehabilitate - shows me paystubs, report cards, etc. - I would be willing to help financially. But, in the absence of effort to change, they are on their own. </p>

<p>My heart goes out to families who are struggling because I know that it affects the whole family, for a very long time. Best advice, get some family counseling, either with your child or not. You are in this for a very long haul.</p>

<p>MD Mom, it’s scary to think it took having to go to prison for your brother to change. It could have hardened him too. How did that affect the family? </p>

<p>I worry that my son could be the kid his “friends” are wanting to testify against if they are caught. Oh what a nightmare that would be! He just keeps thinking what he’d never get caught and it’s just a matter of time. And even if he gets a ticket for pot, which he explains would be “just” a misdemeanor, he could land in jail because he’s breaking probation.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the advice. Lots of it has already been tried over the past 3 years. </p>

<p>There are too many comments I want to make to individually address all the questions, but I think I can cover nearly all of them in a longer explanation than my original. I would like to specifically address the one about my screen name though. I have been very supportive of my son until the last 3 years and only started thinking of him as a knucklehead when he started making hundreds of bad decisions. I should also add that he too calls himself a knucklehead. </p>

<p>Also, DocT, I am so sorry about your loss but really appreciated you trying to help even though it must bring up very painful memories. </p>

<p>So, here is the longer version. </p>

<p>Our son was a perfect child up until middle school. At that time he started struggling a bit in some of his classes at the magnet school, and also got caught for the first time telling a lie (and it was a big one about stealing at school). He begged us to let him go to “the normal school” and we let him transfer since he was still in the gifted program, just at his home school. </p>

<p>8th, 9th, and 10th grade go by pretty uneventfully. He gets about 3/4 A’s and 1/4 B’s and is not involved in drugs or alcohol at all. And yes I am 100% sure of this. </p>

<p>11th grade his grades start slipping and near the end of the year he starts drinking. He begins to make other bad decisions, like not showing up to work if there is a party and he can’t find a sub.</p>

<p>12th grade he really slacks off and gets several D’s. He also turns into a big drinker. We all go to counseling then split, where he goes individually to the addiction specialist and DW and I go to another guy. We are told (right in front of him) that he is experimenting and doesn’t have a problem. We are dumbfounded that she would make that determination after just a couple of sessions (and without us to corroborate statements), and then tell us in front of him.</p>

<p>Summer after HS- the poor decisions get more frequent and even poorer. Pot enters the picture. He lies more and more to us. We kick him out of the house. He moves across the state to attend CC but then can’t find a job and decides not to enroll so that he can have some money to live. He tries cocaine but swears he never will again. He runs out of money and begs us to let him come home. We agree, but only under strict conditions. </p>

<p>1-he goes to a psychiatrist. This one is supposedly the best in the area, and a specialist in teenagers and behavior problems, including ADHD (which I had as a kid, and which one of my other children has). He too tells us that our son is experimenting and doesn’t have a problem. </p>

<p>2- drug testing.</p>

<p>3- he has to work.</p>

<p>4- he has to go to school and since he has no money we front him the tuition with the understanding that he will pay us back for anything under a C. </p>

<p>Spring 2011- 1st semester of CC he does ok. 1 D in a remedial algebra class; D in History; A in business; A in PE; A in a 1 credit class. He pays us back for at least one of the D’s (and may have paid the other one, but I think I remember that he didn’t have the money to pay back the other one. </p>

<p>Summer 2011- fails a drug test, loses his job because of irresponsibility (failing to get a sub), and initially lies about the job. We kick him out again and he moves nearby. BTW- this entire time we have not given him any money at all (other than the tuition). He and his roommates (friend and the friend’s dad) pay rent but the person keeps the money and doesn’t give it to the landlord and disappears. They lose the house around Christmas. He begs us to let him move home. He admits to selling pot, and to using it every day, and swears he wants to clean up his act. He also admits to arranging to buy a lot of pot while visiting friends at the State U with the intent of selling it. The police set up a sting and he barely avoids a felony charge, but lucks into a simple possess charge and has almost $2000 confiscated as drug funds. </p>

<p>Spring 2012- we let him move home and he gets his job back, registers for classes (again, agreeing to pay us back for any bad grades). He goes back up to fight the possession charge and misses school but the case is continued. He goes back a 2nd time and is convicted and loses his license. This time he misses a week of school because he has no car or license and can’t get a ride until the weekend (and claims he can’t even find a ride to the bus station an hour away). Neither time do we give him any money or help him in any way. Then he goes back again, this time to try to get his money back, and is successful, but misses a week of school again despite the fact that I showed him a bus schedule from the college town to the Greyhound station an hour away. </p>

<p>His grades come in and he gets 1 D and the rest F’s. He decides he is going to go back out west and live at the State U with friends and go to CC. He quits his job saying that it isn’t fair to work to have them train him in a new position and then leave in 2 weeks for school right after training is over. We tell him he has to move out immediately and he goes west and stays with friends who are in summer school. </p>

<p>He then asks if he can go on the family vacation with us and wifey says yes over my objections, figuring that getting him out of his environment and away from his friends will benefit him. We have a great vacation and he is his old self, but gets very sick and we have to go to the hospital twice, with follow-up care needed at home, which means he ends up moving back in with us until he can leave for school and his new apartment, which is another story. </p>

<p>We wouldn’t give him any money or co-sign the lease. We told him if he got the cash for the entire year though that they couldn’t deny him the apt. He didn’t have enough, but my wife co-signed the lease anyway after he gave her the first 7 months rent in cash and agreed to pay the rest in installments. </p>

<p>This takes us up through the recent incident with finding the pot in the backyard, which has another new twist. </p>

<p>While waiting to decide what to do, we hid the pot and told him we were leaning toward turning him in. At some point he figures out where it is and takes half of it back to the dealer so that if we turn him in he won’t get in as much trouble. But, he doesn’t take enough back to change it from a felony to a misdemeanor (he would have needed to take most of it back for that). He also doesn’t take it all back though, saying “I knew you guys would be super mad if I did that, but I was so scared and couldn’t let you turn that much in”. I am amazed that he didn’t turn it all in and protect himself, it shows me that he still cares about our feelings and wants to do the right thing (at least somewhat). He also tells us about it, instead of letting us find out first. </p>

<p>All of which bring us to today. Since counseling didn’t work, I don’t want to spend money on a long term rehab since I am not convinced that his drug use is the big problem. I think it is more his overall laziness and immaturity, and I don’t want to take a chance on losing that much money when I still have two other college careers to pay for, as well as a job that is extremely shaky at the moment.</p>

<p>Also, he has been ready to leave but wifey wanted him to stay until we decided on what to do, so that he would be available for rehab etc.</p>

<p>So sorry for your loss, DocT.</p>

<p>not sure if his last evaluation with the psychiatrist was summer after HS? </p>

<p>any further eval? because as a clinician who has worked in addictions treatment, it certainly seems there’s an issue, hard to know how much is drugs, how much is attitude, etc. </p>

<p>“Since counseling didn’t work, I don’t want to spend money on a long term rehab since I am not convinced that his drug use is the big problem. I think it is more his overall laziness and immaturity, and I don’t want to take a chance on losing that much money when I still have two other college careers to pay for, as well as a job that is extremely shaky at the moment.”</p>

<p>just want to point out, that counseling not working is not necessarily a reason to say rehab isn’t the way to go. Again, I’d recommend a current evaluation. And find a clinician who is recommended by others, perhaps in an Alanon group. Also, since your son is an adult, if he does not have insurance, he may be eligible for a public treatment program, if he meets their treatment criteria.</p>

<p>I realize I’m not a parent. I’m a 17 year old girl who sees this within my OLD circle of friends. I used to participate in the party scene but I guess I grew up a lot faster then the rest of my class. A lot of my former friends would say “but dealing is easier than work” if your son wants to take the easy way out and not take responsibility for his life then don’t support him. I know that mean but I got hit in the face with reality extremely fast at a really young age. My friends would say they Were Going to stop and they did… Until they needed more money. It’s easier than a job because jobs require drug tests. I know friends going into their sophomore & junior year of college and STILL are in the dealing scene because their parents fail to see what they’re doing. Their GPA’s are no higher than 3.0. Until he gets his life together and learns what real responsibility is I would not support his lifestyle. It’s good he wants to go to college but I know how expensive it is and until you KNOW he is going to step up, don’t let him. I’m not a parent, I know, so my advice isn’t that great, but as a teen I actually know what other teens do</p>