Nurturing versus "Tough Love" theatre schools?

<p>btw, I appreciate Hoveringmom’s interest in not making this about one school, but another poster opened that up, hence why those of us with different experiences have chimed in…</p>

<p>and, in fact, we had alot of those apprehensions heading in, as our D did NOT come into this process with the kind of head-spinning resume that so many CCers seem to have. Would she feel overwhelmed? Would she feel that it was a brutal, tough place that would eat her up and spit her out? </p>

<p>So, I feel compelled to speak out.</p>

<p>RE: SDon: “the OP moved the thread in a different direction, so we followed up on it. I’d hate for hoveringmom’s perception of New York City to be hanging out there like that unanswered! She also made an assertion that the “top schools” are Broadway-focused. That needed to be dispelled as well!”</p>

<p>Wow, you know, SDon, your posts are actually serving to illustrate what my S may have gone through. Talk about self centered. And I’m gonna be blunt because the above quote is over the top.</p>

<p>I share my horrible experience and ask for nurturing schools and you repeatedly make it an issue about YOURSELF and your own child. I’m just speechless. (And Soozievt, I do want to start by saying I really respect you, admire your D’s accomplishments, and have long respected your posts. I guess I’m disappointed.)</p>

<p>I specifically did NOT name the school my S had attended. I started a post trying to open up a discussion about nurturing versus ‘tough love’ schools. Immediately, you & Soozievt made this an issue about Tisch. I tried once again to NOT name the school, but you kept making it an issue about YOUR school and YOUR children and repeatedly NAMED the school! </p>

<p>Guess what? This is not about YOU. </p>

<p>As for your above accusation, I am appalled how you keep spinning my posts into being about you and the school your child goes to. You’re not all that important. NO, I did not make an ‘assertion that top schools are Broadway focused’ (and I guess in your head that automatically means I was talking about your child because naturally everything I say is specifically about you) - I was trying to examine why some schools seem to focus on the ‘tough love’ and how the NYC market is indeed quite tough and how there are other options out there that some folks may not have considered. How you can spin that into an ‘assertion’ about NYC that you need to ‘dispell’ is beyond me. And my ‘perception’ of NYC is just that- my perception, that I wouldn’t have even have MADE if you hadn’t kept making this an issue of the NYC school your child goes to! </p>

<p>As for your semi-hysterical posts ‘defending’ NYU, well now I can only say, Methinks milady doth protest too much.</p>

<p>This is so upsetting. Ugh. And you know? So many folks’ comments have been so positive and supportive and loving. So I’ll focus on that. I don’t care if you disagree with me, just that we actually listen and respect each other. Thank you to the many posters who have tried to actually answer the OP, and who have been so supportive and respectful.</p>

<p>I’m sorry to see some bad feelings and sense of conflict here. I thought it was a discussion. I’m going to respond to a few posts from today. I was going to post yesterday about some thoughts I had on this topic and didn’t get a chance to do so and so maybe after this post, I will put up what I was originally going to discuss relating to some posts from before today.</p>

<p>amtc wrote:

</p>

<p>Two things:
One…I, nor SDonCC, were the ones to name or bring up the school that the OP’s son had attended. I had NO idea what school she meant when she originally posted and in fact, I did not recognize the OP as a member and did not know any of her history on CC. I learned of the school when in Post #4, MOMMY5 named the school! I didn’t know which school until then and would never have mentioned it myself if I had known and the OP chose not to mention it. By then, the cat was out of the bag, which leads me to point #2 in response to your post…</p>

<p>Two…given that this is a public message board, and I realize someone starts a thread with a question that may be about themselves initially, I am fully cognizant that MANY others are reading along too. For example, in just four days time, this thread already has 1,950 views (which I realize does not represent 1,950 people but it surely represents a number higher than the number who are actually participating on the thread!). In fact, in my over nine years on CC, I have come to learn the great number of “lurkers” who read CC and NEVER post on CC. In fact, I am contacted by them all the time when they ask me questions after reading my posts and I do not recognize them and realize they have zero post counts but have been a member for some time. So, because of THAT fact, I feel a duty to balance out a discussion when either an issue arises or a school is being discussed so that generalizations are not made that may affect those who are reading along wondering about these schools and only have one perspective or experience to go by. Just like I recommend prospective students talk to MANY current students and alum of a school they are considering, likewise, on a public message board on a topic like this one, more than one perspective or experience should be related and people can take what they wish to from the discussion. I respect hoveringmom’s son’s real experience at his BFA program and it is important for perspective students to know that one person’s experience, as real as it is, is not necessarily indicative of everyone’s experience, let alone what their own may be like if they were to attend. The OP’s son had some experiences that were so radically different than my kid had (apparently SDonCC’s D too) that I think it is important that one not walk away generalizing that this is not a nurturing place for some students (it was for my child and many others). The fact is, another member DID name the school and so it was out there at that point. The OP did not initiate that. But afterwards, has related more experiences at the school. It is only natural that others relate their experiences and then those reading along can draw their own thoughts. The thread started with one person’s question but it is not a private conversation and these issues, and yes, these schools being named, are then being discussed and I, for one, welcome a variety of perspectives to such a discussion. The OP asked which schools are nurturing and so other school names WILL come up. Someone may say X school is nurturing and someone else may respond that their experience was anything but. And so it goes in such discussions. I don’t think SDonCC or myself were defending NYU/Tisch (I would be the first to never claim it is the “best”), but simply that our kids had a different experience than many points being brought up by others. And then more points came up (example: "schools training you for the “top”/Broadway) and so again, other opinions and experiences were related. Everyone is welcome to share! Nobody is remotely violating the discussion rules on CC. </p>

<p>On a different topic…SDonCC, you were responding to some characterizations of a backstabbing and cutthroat atmosphere the OP shared about Tisch. I have observed much of what you discussed today in post #58…What I have overwhelmingly seen through my own kid is the HUGE amount of peer support from fellow students who are now her fellow alums since she graduated over two years ago. It has been just the opposite of backstabbing and cutthroat and competitive among peers. She is constantly going to see her friend’s work in the city at all levels. She is constantly hiring and providing opportunities and jobs for her fellow alum and when she turns down jobs, she recommends her peers from school who have obtained work due to her. If a friend is on Broadway, she always goes even if it is expensive to support them. In fact, she dislikes Mamma Mia quite a bit but has had four close friends play Sophie in it and has gone to support every one of them as how can she not? She relies HEAVILY on her friends supporting her. As one example, she has a solo show at a significant venue in the city next week and so much appreciates her wide network of college friends/alums who come out to support her and she continues to do the same for them. I often read their tweets online and they are constantly cheering on and recommending their friends to the wider world. It has been one of the best outcomes I have seen from my D going to her college. Just saying. The supportive network since graduating (from both faculty and students/graduates) has been enormous in her career. I would consider her studio environment to have been nurturing, though rigorous. </p>

<p>This thread is asking about nurturing BFA programs. Some are more nurturing than others, but some is also the experience each individual may have. I happen to feel that many of the programs that have intense cuts are the ones that have more of a competitive or less nurturing feel to them but that is a generality and in fact, there are many who love those programs that have cuts! So, I don’t knock those programs because they are a good fit for many! </p>

<p>In any case, I don’t see “hysterical” posts and I think people are offering various perspectives and that the posts have been respectful. Discussions veer into different topics and nobody can control the topic even if they start the thread. I think it is an interesting discussion and there are many who are reading along who are not posting and so I am thinking of those people as well as the OP. Please remember that impressionable teens may be reading and think, oh, no, I don’t want to go to THAT school because this person had this experience, etc. It is important to garner many experiences and perspectives about any school that may come up in this thread (a thread that asks members to name nurturing schools, etc.) </p>

<p>I think I will still post below what I was going to post yesterday in response to hoveringmom’s sharing her son’s story and also some posts by fishbowlfreshman and SDonCC yesterday…</p>

<p>I think sometimes people get uncomfortable when the same point is made over and over, with a great many personal examples, in very long posts.</p>

<p>It may have been my fault that Tisch was named. Hoveringmom had posted on a Purchase thread that Tisch turned out to be cheaper than Purchase for her son to attend.</p>

<p>Because I had seen that, I posted on this thread that I thought my son had applied to the same school that hoveringmom’s son attended and that my son had decided against attending it after not having a good feeling about the studio in which he was placed. (I added that I thought it was important to investigate programs and/or studios very, very carefully, as challenging as that might prove to be). </p>

<p>After that, somebody else named Tisch, and hoveringmom eventually confirmed that she did mean Tisch.</p>

<p>I think the naming of names in this thread has been very valuable and refreshing. I have learned some things here that I never learned anywhere else, such as that certain programs were once harsh and have softened up, and that people might want to keep in mind that some (certainly not all) Meisner teachers can be harsh. </p>

<p>Fish posted that Atlantic and Meisner are considered to be rather tough studios at Tisch. I had heard that myself about one of them but had never really seen the subject addressed on the open forum before. Reading it might help some people ask good questions about programs they are considering.</p>

<p>I really appreciate the people who have been very open on this thread and think it will be a big help to parents and prospective students. </p>

<p>I hope some more people will post information that adds new observations and insights and is not repetitive.</p>

<p>“Nurturing versus “Tough Love” theatre schools?”</p>

<p>hoveringmom, I think you raised a good point in your original post. If the student is the type who is not impervious to the “tough love” or simply a “tough” program, they would tend to be a better fit in a more “nurturing” program. I have read so many opinions on these boards as to which school has the best program that it really boils down to what’s the best fit for the individual student. I think these kids chose acting because they’ve had really good experiences up to this point. There is no reason they should not build on those good experiences and I’m sorry to hear your son’s last experience wasn’t a good one. I’m not saying everything good should be fun but at minimum it should be positive and productive. Even the “Toughest” programs still nurture and encourage growth as an individual and an actor. Not sure of the circumstances in your situation but again, the process tends to be more important than the individual in some of these programs.</p>

<p>One major factor to consider with any program is how rigorous is the training? In many so called “Tough Love” programs the training is sequential and rapid. In other words, the reason they tend to “mold” actors boils down to the fact that students are expected to learn at the exact same pace to move on to the next level and then graduate with a strong technical and artistic foundation that meets the program’s standards. These are mainly four year conservatory-type programs that heavily emphasize the technical and professional training of an well-rounded actor. </p>

<p>In my opinion, even the “Tough” programs want to see students SUCCEED. I think the “check your ego” at the door attitude is mainly for the sense of collaboration which is critical to any successful company or ensemble. </p>

<p>As you mentioned, your daughter’s goal is pretty specific towards acting in a Shakespeare Company. I’m not sure if you researched RADA, BADA and Guildhall but those are all reputable programs and have working ties to world-class Shakespeare companies. As an aside, BADA also offers a summer intensive run by Yale Drama and UCLA. Many well-known actors and directors affiliated with the Royal Shakespeare Company provide instruction. </p>

<p>The “Tough Love” programs seem to be way outnumbered by the “Nurturing” programs when it comes to training philosophy. Eliminate those from your list and your daughter should have many good choices by region, size of class, academics, cost, campus, etc. </p>

<p>Wishing you and your family the best.</p>

<p>Here is the post I was going to write yesterday but didn’t get a chance, after reading the previous day’s posts and so it is out of sequence now since many posts went up today.</p>

<p>Hoveringmom, I think it was brave of you to share your son’s story at his first college theater program. I can’t imagine how difficult that time was for you as a parent, let alone for him as a student. I thought about your son’s story and two stories came to my mind, even though they differ from his story. </p>

<p>First, my D’s best theater friend from her many summers at a theater camp is hugely talented in musical theater and got into many very selective BFA programs. She opted to attend one of the top BFA in MT programs in the country, a program my D chose not to apply to (even though much of their college list did overlap). This other program had a very significant cut policy and that was not my kid’s cup of tea (not truly mine either) even though the program is truly great and so well regarded with lots of talented students who do well after graduating. This friend was NOT cut at that program and in fact, from all accounts I know from the parents, the program loved their daughter and she did well there and was reviewed positively and cast well, etc. She was not in danger of ever being cut. However, I recall hearing about her experiences there and sharing and contrasting them with my own kid’s experiences at a different school that doesn’t cut, and it was really different. The other program was more competitive in nature between students, also smaller, and a different kind of stress given the cut policy and the atmosphere created in the program either due to the cut policy, the philosophy of the program or its program director, or some other reason. And my D wasn’t experiencing that and felt nurtured overall at her program. </p>

<p>But what made me think of my D’s friend in relation to your son is that this student was having personal issues as it sounds like your son was unfortunately going through at the time as well. And this could happen no matter where the student had landed at college. I believe from observing this other case that the mix of personal issues that were challenging at the time and within the particular atmosphere of that program turned into a situation that was not so healthy for the student. For her own health, she left the program in the middle of her second year there. She was told she could come back at any time. She got healthier and eventually transferred into an Ivy League school. I’m not saying she had the same issues as your son (she likely didn’t) but when a student is already grappling with personal health issues, their environment can contribute to exacerbating the situation. I think it is positive that your son did transfer out and found a better fit and hopefully is also much healthier now. </p>

<p>Our children’s health is the most important thing. Others reading along have to put into perspective that your son was already going through a difficult period and so others’ experiences at the very same school might not have felt the same as they did for your son who was “fragile” at the time he started at school. My D’s friend is not negative about her old BFA program and she liked it in many ways in fact. But she already was going through personal challenges and the atmosphere there likely didn’t help or support that. The good news is that this friend and your son are doing much better healthwise and landed in a positive place to finish their education that worked out better for them. I’m glad your son made the change! </p>

<p>The other story is not quite on the topic of personal health (though personal happiness is involved) and is different than your son’s and is not actually theater related. But since you shared so openly about your son, I will relate something about my older D (not a theater major) that came to my mind when discussing leaving a school that is not working for them, no matter how great the school is otherwise. </p>

<p>My older D (now age 25) is a high achiever. This is a kid with truly no emotional issues, very easygoing, and has been on a straight trajectory her whole life that has been positive in every way. She has excelled both academically and in extracurricular endeavors. She has been so easy to raise! To give an idea, she went from being valedictorian in high school to entering Brown University which she loved. She achieved a lot there in and out of the classroom and won the top award in her dept. at graduation. She applied to Master of Architecture programs (professional degree programs to become an architect) which involved a portfolio (kinda like having an audition!) and got into a bunch of the most selective ones in the country with extremely low acceptance rates. She immediately entered MIT after undergrad school. It was a 3.5 year program and extremely rigorous (I know a BFA is rigorous but this involved “living” in the studio from about 8 AM until 3 AM seven days a week, no joke). She was up for the rigor as she is a VERY motivated hard working person and driven to succeed. In arch school, a HUGE part of the program is the required studio every semester and then there are other courses too. Studio involves HOURS of work creating projects and a LOT of critiques of those projects that are pretty brutal in fact (not nurturing to say the least). My D was enjoying the program, working extremely hard and made friends. She was the youngest person in the program (not a problem for her socially at all) and the only one straight out of college. The program did not treat her level of prior experience any differently than those who had worked for many years in the field. The professors’ standards were the same in studio. We figured the school saw something in her and chose to accept her in a highly selective process which was not a fluke given she got into five other top programs. My D was getting As in the courses that were not studio. She worked her butt off in studio but was critiqued harshly. Effort is not what counts there. And her studio teachers the first two semesters were visiting faculty and they were pretty brutal to her. However, she was meeting with other great success there such as winning grants including to work for an architect in France that summer that MIT funded and was chosen to be a project manager on a major installation she did with a group of MIT grad students that was built as an exhibit in the National Design Museum in NYC. MIT even awarded her a half tuition scholarship for her second year that she applied for (didn’t have the first year). In Nov. of her second year (third semester in the 7 semester program), she called us while we were on a road trip and she was in tears. This is a young adult who barely EVER cries, just to give perspective. She said she was not enjoying studio. Long hours only work if you are passionate about it and while she loves architecture, she was not passionate about studio. I think they just really broke her in that studio because she was trying her hardest. She loved all the other courses but you can’t do that degree without studio which is a major core part. She said even if she was getting As in studio, she didn’t want to do studio. She realized she didn’t want to be a designer, but really loved what she was interested in before she even got to MIT which is sustainable design. She wanted to specialize in that and change gears to that specialization and not do studio any longer as she was unhappy in studio. She was worried that people would think she was nuts to leave MIT, ranked #2 for grad arch schools. But we supported her as we wanted her to be happy and we were proud that she was able to come to this decision and change gears even though she had been on a “straight line” with no detours her whole life. She dropped studio for the rest of the semester and stayed in the other courses. </p>

<p>She worked in architecture that spring in Boston and then won a scholarship and even still got funding from MIT where she was no longer a student (they liked her!) to do research that summer in Zurich in architecture in her specialty and then she worked in architecture in France after that and then came back to the US and coached a sport at her undergrad school. She applied to the very small number of grad programs in building science/technology and sustainability that were highly selective (very chancy with so few schools too). She got into top programs and entered an MS in Architecture in Building Science and Sustainability at Berkeley this fall, and in fact, is the only MS entering in this specialty there and she is very lucky to have been selected. Things worked out. I shared this as it is a personal story and while not involving mental health or not exactly the same as your story, it involved a school/program considered to be highly regarded in her field and even so, she found that certain elements were not for her (though she liked the school and got great recs from professors for her new grad degree). But her studio at MIT was the opposite of nurturing. In fact, it reminded me a bit of how faculty can be in cut programs in BFAs, even though the students collaborated in a very supportive way with one with one another in her program.</p>

<p>Actually, I just recalled the third story that your story brought to my mind. I already related that my younger D (now 23) had a very positive experience at NYU, Tisch, and in her two studios (CAP21 and ETW, which I realize are not the studio your son was in). But I can think of one experience only that was less than positive. But it brings to my mind that every teacher is different in how they approach things and it isn’t an entire school. My theater D entered college at age 16, after three years of HS. She moved to NYC after growing up in a rural area. In March of her last year of HS, right after her 8 college auditions were completed, she was in a very serious car accident which left her with severe injuries and landed her in intensive care and eventual surgery, complications and a long recovery. She luckily survived. They said it would take six months to recover and she actually got her NYU and some other BFA acceptances while in the hospital! It was six months before college began. </p>

<p>My D entered for musical theater. Prior to college, most of her training was in voice and dance, but very little in acting. She had danced her entire life and was in a select repertory dance company and was doing dance 13 hours per week on top of all her theater stuff. In fact, her accident was when she was driving from her studio which is far away after choreographing a piece for the company there. She was an advanced dancer. At Tisch/CAP21, at the time, for every dance discipline and grade level/year at the school, there are FOUR levels for just that year (ie., four levels of ballet, four of tap, four of jazz, just for freshmen and four more for sophs, etc.). You audition on the first day for placement. My D who used to dance almost daily, had not only not been dancing for six months, but she also now had five screws in her hip! It was amazing she was dancing AT ALL! I know she informed the dance teachers. She was placed in the highest level of ballet, tap and jazz on the first day based on auditions at the start of the freshmen year. However, one or two dance teachers were very critical of her in dance classes and on her dance evaluations and then dropped her to the second to highest level. Their critiques were rather negative about (I forget the technical terms)…extensions, or whatever, with her legs. There seemed to be NO support or accommodations of the fact she was coming back from an acetabular fracture with screws in her hip, much pain and not having danced in a while, not to mention her other injuries. She was doing well but was not up to the way she was the year before just yet. She started to feel bad about herself in terms of dancing even though that was the one area she had the most training in and is a very good dancer! But she survived. She felt supported everywhere else there and so it was one thing that did put a damper on her image of herself as a dancer. The last couple of years she has not danced that much (but has done a lot of acting and singing) and I’ll hear her say “I’m not really a dancer.” and I think “what? you’ve been a dancer your whole life and are good at it.” Anyway, recently she had a callback in NYC and had to dance and the choreographer had been the dance captain of a Tony winning musical. She came out of that audition saying, “wow, I realize I actually do dance pretty well.” I always felt badly that her confidence in dance was partly knocked down by the negative feedback in her early time at Tisch when she was very vulnerable coming back from such major injuries. Didn’t have this issue at all with any other teachers or directors at Tisch however! So, there’s my share. Your son sounds like he was vulnerable for different reasons. Thus it may have been hard to be critiqued in that circumstance. </p>

<p>Lastly, I want to respond to some posts by fishbowl and SDonCC two days ago. They talked about how many programs take freshmen and want them to “forget what you have already learned” and take them from scratch, not in an attempt to “break” them but more to start the program from the ground up fresh. This is what I was trying to convey earlier in the thread but didn’t say it as well as they did. I think at most good programs, they sort of consider the freshmen as “beginners” and want them to start out fresh in their BFA program sequence and train them. That doesn’t mean it is not individualized or that they are “molding” them. But the BFA faculty sort of think of the freshmen as starting from scratch with their training. And I was trying to say that there are some kids who enter college with a lot of previous training, lots of theater credits (even at professional levels in some cases), and who may have been used to “shining” previous to college in their theatrical endeavors. But many of these BFA programs kind of wipe the slate clean and consider this the beginning of their training for these students. Even my own kid will not post YouTube clips from prior to college as she says, “that is prior to my being trained,” even though she had lots of training before college. And so I don’t think the teachers are trying to “break” students but it may feel off putting for some kids to be critiqued a lot and be considered a “beginner” of sorts in the training program.</p>

<p>

It sounds like the U Minnesota Guthrie Theater BFA should be at or near the top of her list. They seem to circumvent a good bit of the “tearing down” by mainly admitting students for whom it’s minimally necessary - i.e. from the top arts high schools or who otherwise already have a fair amount of solid pre-professional training where the lion‘s share of those habits have already been broken or were never allowed to surface in the first place. I believe I heard something about half their last graduating class having actually come from the same two arts high schools … </p>

<p>Also, just to reemphasize something Sooz implied, I think it’s important to remember that BFA workloads are in and of themselves not for the faint of heart. It can be a real pressure cooker no matter how it’s structured or how “nurturing” the faculty may be. The students are usually sleep deprived, too, and this along with all that pressure can definitely bring a student with underlying psychological issues to “break.” I’ve seen it … Another thing to keep in mind is that there is a school of thought that BFA training isn’t such a good thing in the first place based on the idea that college aged kids simply aren’t emotionally or intellectually ready for it. My experience is that you can’t speak globally because some are - others aren’t … And there’s no shame whatsoever in being one who isn’t. It’s just the place you happen to be in a particular moment on your life’s path …</p>

<p>Agree with all you wrote, Fish. </p>

<p>I also want to say that I don’t think “treating student as an individual” is the opposite of “break down and build up using these steps toward this goal,” as I have been reading in the inquiry by the OP. I think in many BFA programs, they do treat the freshmen as “just starting their training program” and wish to take them through a training program from scratch, no matter if they have had previous training (and most will have had some). I don’t think this means they are molding them into some preconceived idea that applies to each student in the same way. I will just say that I thought my kid was totally treated like an individual. Her experiences differed from the next kid and her goals were not entirely the same as the next kid either. And her type and strengths differed from the next kid too. They are all different at graduation too. But you can be treated as an individual but still be trained by a program from “scratch” where they want you to experience a sequence of training that is part of their program. There are things they want everyone to learn. But that doesn’t mean that each person is not seen as an individual and is being molded into some similar type image of an actor.</p>

<p>Thanks, good points Fishbowl–
Yes, it’s true that BFA programs are in and of themselves pressure cookers and yes, they may not be appropriate or even beneficial for some students. And my D will definitely be applying to Guthrie. As an MFA in writing, I do know that many writers feel quite strongly that a BFA in writing is ‘too soon’ and many MFA programs won’t even admit you directly upon graduation from college. It’s not just that they feel the student isn’t ready for a BFA–it’s that they feel that first a student must gain life experience and depth in order to be the best artist possible. The feeling is that you can be trained in technique to the n’th degree but if you have very limited life experience, then all the technique in the world will be just that; you risk shallowness of vision and having nothing really interesting to say. I think that applies to all art.</p>

<p>I’m so on the fence about that too–Sometimes I think that’s true, and other times I think, Well if the young person is focused, disciplined and mature, a BFA could be appropriate & beneficial in a deep way…my head is going round in circles! I think our personal solution will be this: My D will be applying to both BFA and BA programs (in liberal arts colleges) and she will see what she gets accepted in. Then she will visit and finally, we will await financial aid. Money is (sadly) for us a deal breaker, no matter how awesome the program. Thanks for all the feedback, it’s really really appreciated,</p>

<p>These are issues we all face - both the kids and the parents - as we go through this process. My D needed her whole senior year, and lots and lots of experiences, options, questions and answers, to decide where to go to school and what program was right for her.</p>

<p>She had many surprises once she got there, too! She is still working on how to balance her artistic, academic, cultural, social and personal experiences. I guess the only thing we’ve been able to ask ourselves is, Does this work feel equally challenging and rewarding? So far she’s feeling it is working out for her, although there are days I know that one might overshadow the other. </p>

<p>I’ve been thinking back on my own education, and the college journey my older D just finished in another field entirely, plus that of many other people I know. I’d say that my D2 is doing valuable exploring and having valuable feedback to learn what matters to her the most, and what different paths might be available in her future, just as the rest of us did. I do think that some kids find themselves locked into a singular, channeled focus (whether it’s the subject matter, or the approach to it) and if that becomes unbearable, for any reason, it is very painful for everyone.</p>

<p>I guess we all have to go into this knowing that there is a good chance a kid might have to make a change, because of what they learn about the school, about the field, about themselves, that they can only find out when they are there. It only makes sense that there is just as good a chance that they would find out negatives as well as positives. It is a personal decision just how those negatives and positives add up to what the next step should be. Fortunately in this field, as in many others, there are lots of choices for that next step.</p>

<p>It’s very rare for anyone to be in a situation where there are no more chances, no more possibilities, as long as they keep an open mind.</p>

<p>If you’re looking for a great story about the road to becoming an actor, I highly recommend “The Life of Reilly,” a film of Charles Nelson Reilly’s one-man autobiographical show. Most of us only remember him from game shows, but he was a devoted, intelligent, determined man with an indelible sense of humor, whose story of trials and triumphs would be an inspiration to any young performing artist.</p>

<p>hoveringmom - Your OP just suddenly brought back a really painful memory I thought I had successfully suppressed a long time (decades!) ago. My college major was in instrumental music and sophomore year I won the first chair position in my section of the top wind ensemble–pretty much all other lead chairs were upperclassmen. From the very beginning of the year the director seemed to take a special dislike of me. While he was known for yelling during rehearsals he seemed to especially yell at me (at least that’s what it felt like) in the most hostile, belittling way. I tried so hard that year but nothing I did seemed to be satisfactory. Wouldn’t you know, by the time I graduated I had changed my major to a non-music degree program. And though I did play semi-professionally in orchestras for several years after graduation it was never the same. I think somehow he succeeded in poisoning the love I had for my instrument and make me doubt myself to the extent that it negatively affected my musical development. So, wow, yeah you can get caught in awful circumstances that really can change the course of your life. Guess deep down there’s a part of me that still mourns for that teenager whose youthful passions were pretty much stepped on. All parents want their kids to have postive, supportive but challenging educational experiences but sometimes it just doesn’t swing that way and through no fault of their own. I am so sorry this happened to your son, and hope that with the passage of time this bad experience will fade and he can heal.</p>

<p>HoveringMom, thank you for posing the question and for detailing its prompt. The only thing that I see has been established, by almost all of the replies, is that every student is different, that some students are better-equipped to deal with the criticism and clique-ishness present at some schools, and that it’s difficult to gauge from a single visit to a school how nurturing they are vs. how cut-throat they are. It’s so frustrating to be a parent who is trying to both support and protect their child. I am in the same position. My D is a Junior and will be applying to audition- and non-audition MT and Acting programs, BFA and BA. I am in the process of helping her with a list of schools and it’s difficult to balance a school’s reputation for excellent training with the right fit for her, which would be a school that sees training as important, but supports that young person’s efforts wholeheartedly. The nature of learning to act requires an ability to take direction and criticism in order to grow, but a director/professor can do that with honesty and kindness or honesty and meanness. I will post a new question later today specific to my child’s search. I hope that I get more specific school recommendations than you did!</p>

<p>HoveringMom, this is my first post ever. I saw your query and that’s exactly what I had put into Google. Seems like some folks got really distracted defending their programs and did not answer your great question. A few people did: I saw Minn.-Guthrie, Emerson, Coastal Carolina, Northwestern, Drew? mentioned as answers. I would love to hear about more. I am sorry that you were treated shabbily by habitual posters who normally provide great info. Thank you very much for sharing your story. We visited NYU since everyone is debating it and crossed it off our list because of the “every man for himself” atmosphere as well as many other dismaying factors. Obviously many people love NYU and dream of going there but it wasn’t for us. BOCO felt very intense and businesslike–not nurturing exactly but not cutthroat either. Emerson was very friendly but I am concerned about their “cuts” program. OU was very friendly. Northwestern was quite a different kind of place–but certainly not cut-throat. SMU and St. Ed’s and Elon and North Texas and Texas State were very friendly too. You might look at Muhlenberg, WTAMU, and U of Tulsa as well, but maybe you only want BFA’s.</p>

<p>haspotential-- this was one of our major questions too. D wanted a program where she would feel really free to take risks and push herself hard-- and for her that meant a place where she would feel really close to her teachers and peers. It was pretty difficult to figure that out in advance-- but from the information sessions we had some hunches.
Fordham and Hartt were two schools where the faculty made a particular point of talking about the student-faculty bond.</p>

<p>D is at Hartt now and she could not be happier. PM me if you want details–I’d be glad to give them. It’s been a thrilling couple of months, seeing her immersed, challenged, and thriving. </p>

<p>She was at an event where one of her professors spoke, and quoted him to me: “Our young artists are our most essential resource. We must give them respect, we must give them opportunities, and most of all, we must give them our love.” She said she can feel that in every aspect of the program. So that’s one good possibility.</p>

<p>When I visited schools with my son, I really liked the overall spirit I observed at Fordham-Lincoln Center. It is a BA program, with rigorous academic requirements (ie. Math, Science, Foreign Language, et al), but it has the small, close-knit feeling of a liberal arts college with a superb (and, of course, highly selective) auditioned Theater Performance program. “glassharmonica” (a frequent contributor here) has a child there now, and so she’s better able to speak for it. I also loved Eugene Lang College at the New School (non-auditioned BA program); The New School is launching an auditioned BFA acting program next year, and I imagine that they will have a similar “vibe.” The New School has always been very progressive and individualistic. Eugene Lang is like Bennington, Bard, or Hampshire on lower Fifth Avenue. My son is now at UArts, and they seem to have a solid creative, collaborative community. Philadelphia is a great city for artists of all sorts, because it is much more affordable than NYC.</p>

<p>To Gwen Fairfax and Stagemum, thanks for the suggestions!</p>

<p>I believe I mentioned Boston University School of Theatre in the thread above as a BFA program with a nurturing atmosphere. Anyway, it should be on the list.</p>

<p>My s is a freshman at DePaul. He really likes it–the theater students are really like an instant big family and not just the freshman. After just a few weeks they have an incredible bond. My s told me he tore his favorite shirt and I told him I could sew it when I visited. He told me, “No worries, Mom, I know people in costume!”</p>

<p>btw, Hoveringmom changed her CC handle a while back. The happy ending for this story is that her daughter ended up with many wonderful options, and chose Northwestern. From all reports, she loves it.</p>

<p>stagemum, yes, I am getting the sense of Fordham as being a nurturing program. I want to give credit to SandKmom, whose posts here alerted us to the program in the first place. The theater program is small and tightly-knit. As someone who teaches in a large-ish university and who has 3 older kids who went through, or are going through college, I am impressed by the level of interaction between faculty, students, and staff at Fordham. For my daughter, who enjoys being an independent thinker, it seems to be about the right balance. I was surprised, and not in a bad way, to learn that the kids call the formidable department chair by his first name, etc.</p>

<p>My daughter is an acting major, but she is also a playwriting major, one of only two in her year. That’s about as close-knit as you can get. She is also one of only two playwriting/acting double majors in the program (the other being SandKmom’s son.) I am impressed at how the school works with them to make the course scheduling possible (trust me, this sort of cooperative support does not happen at every school. Many times, at my own university, and other places, I have witnessed students stuck between a rock and a hard place, trying to fulfill requirements with impossible scheduling conflicts.) </p>

<p>Here is an example of the nurturing I’ve seen at Fordham. I don’t want to go into much detail, but early this semester, there was an incident in which a male upperclassman (not a theater major) behaved problematically towards some freshman girls during auditions for a project. Each girl stopped her audition (kudos to them for having the self-assurance to do that-- I myself would not have had such presence of mind at 18.) They described their experience to older theater majors, who took the matter to the administration. Administrators invited the girls in to talk, asking the girls to weigh in on the solution. I was impressed by how sensitively the matter was handled, how the older students played a concerned and protective (but not suffocating) role, and how the administration acted swiftly to ensure that the freshmen felt safe in their environment. The reaction was mindful, not paternalistic, and the end result was a learning experience for everyone-- exactly what I would have hoped for. It was nothing like the kind of top-down bureaucratic response I remember from my own far-off days of Catholic school.</p>

<p>It’s easy to be satisfied when things are going smoothly, but there will <em>always</em> be bumps in the road. I was glad to see this “bump” now, early on, because it gave me reassuring information about the process.</p>