<p>Thanks, everyone, for your openness in this thread. Hoveringmom, I am so sorry for your son’s pain and for your own pain and anxiety. Fishbowlfreshman, I just love reading your posts.</p>
<p>Hovering Mom – I’m so sorry your son had such a bad experience. At no program should the bullying you describe be tolerated. Thank you for sharing. </p>
<p>FishBowl – you are truly an incredible resource to this board. If one just simply searched everything you’ve posted over the years, you’d have about 90 percent of what you need to know. As parent of a daugther just beginning this process, I really appreciate that you continue to contribute even through you’ve long since left one fishbowl to reside in a different fishbowl.</p>
<p>^ Glad to be of help. :)</p>
<p>Glass: The first impression was that security barked at us as soon as we got in the door. We shook it off once we got to the info session, reasoning that you would want good security guards in New York City, but it seems to be a pervasive attitude. The woman who ran the info session hit only what the brochure covered, and got very closed-off and defensive when someone else’s parent asked what sets their school apart from another, like NYU or Pace. Seemed to me like someone had a bit of an inferiority complex.</p>
<p>The students who were there at the time didn’t stop to chat with us or with the tour guides and it seemed like no one was smiling. (Compare NYU, where people are hanging out in Washington Square Park, jamming on every instrument you could imagine, chatting, playfully heckling the prospectives or dispensing advice, and generally creating a much nicer atmosphere.) I felt that Fordham was more concerned with their brand name than the student’s experience; then again, I could’ve been influenced by the building’s cramped corridors and stark white lighting. Sounds like a silly thing, I know, but between the people and the environment (including names like Vince Lombardi and Denzel Washington staring at me from the wall) I felt distinctly like I was trespassing on unfamiliar turf, and that I would probably never adopt it as home.</p>
<p>Wow, thanks once again for all your support & kind words. Truly amazing. I had never shared that experience about my son and after I wrote it, I felt really vulnerable, and I was pretty nervous about coming back on! Thanks so much.</p>
<p>Fishbowl, that was great advice. Thanks for that–I’ll check your links. And I’m not saying that an entering Freshman has nothing to learn, of course–if my son had felt that then there would have been no reason to go to the program! </p>
<p>The only other thing is that while there is an overall stereotype of children’s and teen’s bad acting that is certainly deserved–usually overacting with stereotyped gestures, poorly modulated voices, poor use of body, poorly realized characters etc - not ALL young people have these faults. Each person is unique, each person learns differently and has different challenges. Fishbowl, my D would be looking for a school that would treat her as an individual rather than take her through a ‘break down/build up using these steps to this goal’ path. Any other suggestions? Also I keep forgetting: Does anyone happen to know of any colleges with connections to a Shakespeare rep company (that’s my D’s goal)?</p>
<p>I want to bring up another reason why we should be wary of a nasty atmosphere: Fish bowl writes that small programs are less likely to have nastiness amongst the students because the college knows that it’s too small for that. In the same way nearly all the productions my kids have been in over the years (including those with Broadway stars) there has been almost no nastiness or backstabbing, not necessarily because people are pure hearts, but because very few theatres put up with it. You are not asked back if you are an ***hole. Why should the theatre put up with it? There’s SO much talent out there. Indeed, on the contrary, many of the ‘stars’ have modeled kindness, mentoring and generosity. Examples: the woman playing Peter Pan in a professional production set up trick or treating for the kids within the building because they had a show on Halloween. This same woman donated money in their honor to a children’s charity organization. Many older actors during their backstage time in the green room have been extremely kind to my kids; my youngest learned chess this way. My kids have seen so many instances of generosity, camaraderie, & largeness of vision that this is the main thing they take when they do a show. They give professional advice to my kids, teach them various dance moves and speaking techniques (all in their down time in the green room), and my kids have learned a great deal by acting alongside them. In addition, every single director my kids have worked with has been nurturing and positive; I’m sure there are prima donna directors out there but my kids haven’t experienced one yet in all their shows. In fact, in all the shows the directors and producers instill a top down camaraderie and generosity. One director, a semi retired 70 year old with tons of awards, generously offered her time to further coach my daughter privately on heavily reduced price (because we have no money). </p>
<p>I just wanted to put in a positive. Theatre is big and complex and sure it’s competitive, but it’s a small world. One day you lose a role to your friend; the next you land the role; and another day you’re both on the same show together. Programs that tolerate backstabbing and nastiness imho aren’t even modeling the ‘real’ world skills actors will need once they enter the workplace.</p>
<p>StrangeBro, Thanks for your details about Fordham. I am looking forward to comparing notes after our visit on Nov 18 because, although I have spent a lot of time at Lincoln Center and near the Fordham campus (one of my kids went to Jyard precollege so I was wandering around there twice a week for two years, even though we live in a different state), and my brother went to the law school, on the same campus, I have never been inside Fordham. It was not even on our radar (because I know little about acting schools) until last year when I read about sandkmom’s son’s very positive experiences there. </p>
<p>One thing that strikes me (and continues to affect me, even though I have more insight and context after going through this, now for the fourth time) is that certain factors of college visit can create a very strong and perhaps not accurate impression, depending on vagaries of weather, the tour guide, what’s going on on campus that day, etc. Two weeks ago we toured NYU (where we have been many times in the past, for events and student film auditions.) We left liking the school less than we had before we arrived, but if this had been our first experience there we might have felt differently. We also toured Barnard, one of the LACs my daughter is interested in. The tour guide was very sweet, but in a totally different discipline, and the energy level seemed low to my daughter. I had toured Barnard with one of her sisters a few years ago and we left the school feeling very jazzed. Just a different day, a different mood. </p>
<p>It’s so hard to know about these things. Sometimes when you hear a lot of good buzz about a school (or a movie, or a book…) you feel let down when you see the real thing (at least, this is my experience.) The reverse also works-- I’ve heard a lot of negative things about Purchase, in terms of its physical location and the campus itself. I expect if I go there I will probably be somewhat pleasantly surprised.</p>
<p>We went to Emerson last year with few expectations. It was a beautiful day and there was a wonderful energy at the school, so we felt positive about it. I liked it better, as a campus, than BU, but my D loved the program at BU.</p>
<p>That’s a great point glassharmonica. There is a real danger in the process of letting somewhat random factors – poorly prepared guide, random student comment, etc. – impact such a critical decision. Nonetheless, we are sort of programmed to lock in on our first impressions – as a lawyer who tries cases – a lot of research backs up the signifcance of first impressions. A powerful lesson to schools to make sure the right people are the face of the school at such an important moment.</p>
<p>I would just weigh in on the posts re: BU. I think you CAN get a good feeling for the environment from visiting and my D definitely had a more holistic feel at BU and also at Emerson - I have even heard the Emerson audition is “nurturing” in that they realize there is enough stress involved in the process and are not there to make it worse. We did not get this feeling at NYU - may not be an attitude of the school, but more the type of student who attends and the pure competitiveness of getting in…my D attends a small, very nurturing arts HS and has excelled in academics a theatre.
jmtc</p>
<p>Without mentioning specific schools I’ll say that in my experience many good programs will select a company based on their presence, their energy, their spark - and then begin systematically trying to teach out of them the very criteria on which they were selected. I do not know why this is. But I do know that you have to hold on to that spark (even if you have to hide it for a while) because if it stops being fun it’s definitely not worth doing for a living.</p>
<p>As far as nurturing goes, a pat on the back is nice but I would choose the most difficult, rigorous and well respected program that you can get into. My one caveat would be to avoid any program with any kind of mandatory cut policy. Mandatory cuts are stupid and pointless in my opinion. That said, this is one helluva hard way to make a living and you want to come out at the end of your (formal) education with enough stamina to do 4 or 5 auditions in a day and enough mental toughness to put them out of your mind as quickly as they happen. And then do the same thing day in and day out.</p>
<p>I think a lot of programs try to blend nurturing with a realistic preparation for the “real” world. For example, my D’s school - I just found out - has a small “fine” system for lateness (for crew/tech as well as actors), which they tell the kids upfront. My D says it keeps her on her toes, and the message is that you will have to deal with these kinds of rules, and usually much more strictly, in professional jobs.</p>
<p>Hoveringmom - I love your stories about your kids’ experiences, but I have to say that they sound a little extra “charmed.” My D has practically no professional experience - she was in one very small professional show and has worked with adults of all sorts in various community settings, so she’s maybe one tiny step beyond the “only HS” category. She certainly saw her fair share of crabbiness and not always the nicest or most professional behavior among the adults she has worked with. Some did go out of their way to make sure she wasn’t “getting too full of herself” and many felt they had to tell her everything she did wrong - and this not just the directors (in fact, there were actors who would take her aside and tell her something completely opposite to what the director was telling her). And it wasn’t just her - she saw this among the other people as well, in fact probably more cattiness among the adults than in the adult/youth relationships.</p>
<p>Others were just wonderful and really made her feel welcome and taught her a ton. I think what she learned is that people are people and they will have all the same faults everywhere, no matter what the situation is. Like more theatre people, she has had some of the most amazing “family-like” experiences in shows; it’s one of her favorite aspects. But she goes in with her eyes open.</p>
<p>Fishbowl: Just wanted to say my daughter is in her second year in the Meisner studio and has never received any “breaking down” or confrontations in class. Just the other day she was saying how she loves Vicky Hart to death (the director of the studio and one of her acting teachers) and admires most of her other teachers. She often tells me of funny anecdotes about her teachers and seems so happy in the studio. It is definitely a home base for her in a very large university. While the teachers do not give a lot of praise and definitely work on getting rid of bad habits and mannerisms, she has never been “broken down”. They will get on your case if you are late to studio or don’t do your assignments but she at least has not complained about unfairness or harshness (and she’s a pretty sensitive soul) That being said, NYU can be a harsh environment because you are definitely a little fish. I got my doctorate in psychology at NYU and I will tell you the administration is impersonal and bureaucratic . It is hard to get involved in things because it is so big. No one is really looking out for you. You do need to be resilient and a self-starter to thrive at NYU. It is also hard to get cast in productions because there are so many students. Yes there are a lot more productions going on than at other BFA programs, but it is still more difficult to get that stage experience (at least so far that is what she has experienced). In terms of cliques, she has been with the same 15 kids for the past two years and sees them as trusted friends and colleagues.</p>
<p>Once more, I do want to stress that I don’t mean my comments to be a sort of ad hoc attack on NYU. Obviously NYU is fabulous for many people - many who have written in to testify - and besides there are different schools, different years, different combinations of kids. Even after my son’s experience, he has still talked about how much he learned there. I think we’re all saying roughly the same thing. I think it’s critical to be aware, as a potential student, of your own weaknesses and strengths, and to work to your strengths. At the time my son thought it was essential that he stay in NYC, and thought he loved NYC as we visit quite often. Both ended up being not true for him. </p>
<p>One thing I should also bring up that people have touched on—certain markets are indeed quite cut throat. New York itself has that reputation and many have been broken and many have survived to excellence. But it’s a big country out there. Some folks may not care about ‘Broadway or bust." My daughter’s goal, for instance (at this point), is to be part of a Shakespeare/classical theatre repertoire company. There are several well known ones across the country - Alabama, Oregon, several on the East Coast, etc, plus of course Stratford - and she would be beyond happy in ANY of them. And when I talked about my kids’ experience with professional theatre, I was talking about regional theatres, which can be very different - to my understanding - from theatre to theatre and town to town. I do know what’s possible though. What I’m saying is that not everyone necessarily ought to aim for “Broadway or bust.” It’s sort of what a high school student takes for granted, what they think they ought to aim for. But clearly, my son would have never survived that very competitive tough environment no matter how talented he was. </p>
<p>There is a sort of implication that the schools are training for the ‘top,’ which is considered Broadway. But if you’re focused on what you want, you may discover that this is not your goal. OR you can take the approach of focusing on regional (there are many fine regional theatres across the country), and gain your experience and connections there, and then if you desire, move on to Broadway. Norbert Leo Butz did that, to name one well known example.</p>
<p>I’d like to dispel the perception, that I hope you weren’t trying to create, that those who head to NYC do so only with a “Broadway or bust” mentality. Again, to use the example of my D’s experiences at Tisch: her studio has a weekly “salon” for freshmen, where they bring in artists from all different types of performing venues and at all different levels of success to have a conversation with the kids. The emphasis in her program, through the training (not just this weekly event) is developing your own individual artistic instincts and to understand what it means to be a theater artist – not a Broadway performer…</p>
<p>I suppose if a student heads to any school with the intention you stated, they will be quickly disabused of that notion once they see the rigors of this work, all the talent that is there and all the different ways an artist can make their way in this world.</p>
<p>And, besides, once a student does get to NYC, if that’s where they do end up going – realistic expectations or not – they will be exposed to such a wide array of theater-going experiences. It’s really just the tourists who only know about Broadway… Trust me: these kids find out quickly about the myriad of things going on in Manhattan and the surrounding buroughs…</p>
<p>However, if you were trying to say that NYC is not the only place where a student can go to achieve their career goals in theater – whatever they may be – well, then, of course, that I agree with.</p>
<p>Nor, for that matter, do I believe for one second that a BFA is the only or even a necessary path to take! My D had a limited list of audition schools and a lengthy list of BA applications, and in the college search we learned about wonderfully creative things going on in places like Minneapolis and St. Louis… A BFA was always her personal preference, though, and she turned down some other really fabulous educational opportunities. (limiting the list of audition schools was my influence, I’ll be honest…)</p>
<p>However, I am really finding that she’s getting the best of both worlds at Tisch / NYU: she is learning and training her mind, her intellect, her creativity, and her artistic passion in such deep, profound and varied ways.</p>
<p>I invite you all to read this wonderful speech by Mary Schmidt Campbell, dean of Tisch School of the Arts. The second half gets into the crux of the school’s philosophy:</p>
<p>[Welcome</a> 2009 - Speech by Dean Mary Schmidt Campbell: Tisch School of the Arts at NYU](<a href=“http://about.tisch.nyu.edu/object/deansWelcome_fall2009.html]Welcome”>http://about.tisch.nyu.edu/object/deansWelcome_fall2009.html)</p>
<p>Drew University in Madison, NJ, is the site for the Shakespeare Theatre of NJ (the theater is independent from Drew) - an excellent repertory company that draws first-rate actors from New York and elsewhere. They have strong internship and apprentice programs.</p>
<p>Agree with SDonCC that not everyone (even students who go to college in NYC or attend intense BFA programs) has a “Broadway or bust” mentality. As a college counselor, I come in contact often with students who state their goal is to “be on Broadway.” I always worry a lot about such a narrowly defined goal because very few will attain that, yet many more will become otherwise successful in the theater world. Nothing wrong with aiming high, but I think setting broader and more realistic goals is better. </p>
<p>For my own kid, she does NOT have a “Broadway or bust” mentality, and never did when entering college either. Would she ever love to perform on Broadway? Of course! What actor wouldn’t love such an opportunity! But that is not how her goals are defined. She is successfully working in her field and has been since graduation day, and in several capacities (including all of her “survival” jobs as well). Of course, she keeps reaching higher and higher and sets year long goals for herself each year and some short term ones and has been reaching these so far. I don’t know how far she’ll go but at least she has a career in her craft and is supporting herself, even if not making a lot of money. </p>
<p>Also, performing in NYC goes way beyond the Great White Way. Just this week alone, my D is in three different shows on five nights in NYC, not to mention what else she is doing in theater and music right now which is a lot more. Will she ever make it to Broadway? Remains to be seen. But that is not how she defines her goals or success in theater and music. Also, among her NYU/Tisch alum peers, many are working and performing in theater and music, including some on Broadway but many more are working actors and that’s truly what it is about.</p>
<p>As to the “cutthroat” theater world, while we’re still on the outside looking in, I think that we’ve seen that the NYC theater community really develops a small world feeling and that the artists who live and work there form a friendly, collaborative and supportive community. Not all, and not all working experiences are that way, for sure. </p>
<p>But whether it’s through activism in support of marriage equality, going to see friends perform in a basement theater, hanging out at the “After Hours” open mike show, seeing a friend perform at Joe’s Pub, etc., etc., etc., life in NYC is not all about backstabbing. It’s also about being there for your theater friends and the theater community, and knowing that one day, yes, you might very well be on the Broadway stage, but the next, you’re out on the streets again looking for work or performing in a tiny venue, and you sure hope that the friends you showed up for will be there to show up again for you!</p>
<p>soozievt and SDonCC - enough please! We get it, NYU and NYC are great for your kid but that’s not the question/topic of this thread. The OP is asking for other options for her daughter because of her son’s college experience. She didn’t even mention the school he attended, but you found it important to name and defend the school and that’s fine but we get it and, most of us agree, different schools and techniques work for different kids. Now, back to the original question, schools that are generally more of a nurture-based acting program. Thank you.</p>
<p>the OP moved the thread in a different direction, so we followed up on it. I’d hate for hoveringmom’s perception of New York City to be hanging out there like that unanswered! She also made an assertion that the “top schools” are Broadway-focused. That needed to be dispelled as well!</p>
<p>And, frankly, I don’t think that either Soozie or I were talking about how NYC or Tisch were “right for our kid,” but giving different examples of the environment and the opportunities our kids have found there.</p>
<p>I think there were plenty of “right” places for my D. This is the only one I can speak of from personal experience – and I posted more about my D’s application process to show VERY clearly that I do NOT come from a BFA / NYC or bust perspective…</p>