Octogenarian romances? Who has had experience with this with their parents/in-laws?

Parent Cafe
2361

Okay, I fear this is going to be a long story, so feel free to scroll on by. (It turned into two stories - sorry).

When we went to dinner with them Tuesday, we learned that Bob and mil had purchased a grill at Lowe’s. They have been trying to assemble it themselves for TEN days. When we asked why they didn’t pay for Lowe’s to assemble it, mil said, “We (which I truly believe means Bob) thought we could do it.” We had no idea they’d bought a grill.

When I picked her up today, there were multiple screws, etc all over their dining table. I asked, “How goes the grill assembly?” Mil: “We have given up. They are coming to get it and will put it together and bring it back. Apparently, they don’t assemble at your house.” (Of course they don’t!!!)

When I dropped her off she needed me to go in to help her with a tech issue. When we walked in she said “Oh, look! Bob cleared everything off the dining table!”Bob came back from lunch right after we did. Immediately started grousing: “They came and picked up the grill ten minutes after y’all left. No call or anything. I guess everyone is just supposed to stay home 24/7. It’s a good thing I was here!” My bet is that the Lowe’s people, not Bob, cleared everything off the dining room table.

Then he says: “They couldn’t take the tank (meaning propane tank), so I’m going to have to take it back this afternoon.”

Me: “Why are you taking it back?”

Bob: “They couldn’t take it - said it would be illegal to have it in their truck.”

Me: “But you’re still going to need it when they bring the assembled grill back.”

Bob: [raising his voice and speaking derisively] “They couldn’t take it. It was ILLEGAL.”

Me: (trying again) “You can just leave it out on your patio. You’ll need the propane for the grill regardless.”

Bob: [louder] “I’m taking it back! I don’t want them delivering the grill and not showing me how to hook up the tank!” Wut? There has to be a tank there for someone to show you!

I gave up. It’s gonna be a sad day when the grill gets delivered with NO propane tank. Guess what, Bob? If they can’t transport propane from your house to Lowe’s, they can’t transport it from Lowe’s to your house!! I don’t guess he understood that the tank of fuel they bought had been a separate purchase from the grill?? They won’t be able to show you how to connect it because you won’t have one because you decided to return it! I really think mil understood my point, yet she was saying nothing. Hopefully, she persuaded him not to return it after I left.

My struggle is that he immediately became defensive when I questioned what he was doing. I think Bob does not like being questioned about anything, ever.

I had a similar experience with him on the phone back in the fall. I’d taken mil to lunch after the crossing, and she said while there that she and Bob should come themselves for lunch sometime. When that sometime arrived she couldn’t remember the name or the location. So, she called me to ask. I was telling her and she was struggling (understandable - she didn’t live here). Bob gets on the phone. So, I’m telling him the name and where it is, and he starts saying, “No, no, not that place. The place you took her downtown.” Me: I haven’t taken mil to lunch downtown.” Bob: [loudly] “No, it was downtown.” By then I was exasperated and I got louder. Me: “I have taken mil to lunch two places. One was at such-and-such and the other was at such-and-such. I have never taken mil out to lunch downtown!” Mil got back on the phone and calmly said, “We’ll find it.”

I have no doubt this was how the phone conversation about disconnecting the internet/TV equipment went with sil. Bob escalates quickly if there is any doubt cast about his, “rightness.” Any questioning or attempts at helping are viewed as some sort of criticism, and he becomes defensive.

It’s just all so worrisome to me. Does he snap at her like that? Does she just never question him?

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2362

I am NOT signing up for that!

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Bob sounded like my mom when she was struggling and forgot how to do things she used to be able to do.

So confident, so confused and so wrong

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Maybe that behavior led to the end of several marriages for Bob.

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We signed up just twice and made some great memories. My younger sister and her family came with us to Rushmore & Yellowstone. My kids joined us for SF opera.

It would have been VERY unsafe for them to have traveled without one (or more) of us escorting! Dad caught an infection at Yellowstone and had dangerously low O2 levels I was able to convince him to take a course of antibiotics I had with me, which really helped. We had to hang onto their IDs so we would be sure we could all fly and I upgraded all our seats so we all had economy plus

I would not sign up to escort Bob anywhere myself.

Dad would tend to get angry when he was confused. Maybe Bob is similar. I’m sorry—defusing an angry, confused, wrong person is challenging.

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Oh no!! My mom did that too as her dementia worsened. Urgh! Praying he isn’t snapping at your MIL!

How involved are his kids? Do they visit regularly? Live in the area? Hopefully they are also helping!

My grandfather was almost deaf and a good lip reader but once he got into his 80s he would misinterpret a lot and get very angry. Writing things down helped a lot. We would leave it for when he cooled down and then there would be an “ohhhh.”

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Did what?

I don’t thinking reading lips is an option for Bob. I know he has early macular degeneration as my friend’s in-laws live at the CCRC, and they heard him say that at a lecture he gave there.

He wears these while driving:

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I believe they are called, “bioptics.” My googling indicates they are allowed for driving but often with restrictions on a license such as no driving on interstates and no night driving, neither of which he does. I know he doesn’t drive on interstates ever, but he drove at night after dinner on Tuesday. The restaurant is close by, but still.

I asked about his son and his wife at lunch yesterday. Mil said he had stopped by the other day and had lunch with them at the bistro. He has his own health issues, and mil also told me his wife is having eye issues? Didn’t say what, but said it was, “bad.” The daughter, who is about 12 years younger than the son lives in Georgia. Mil has not met her yet, but I saw they are now FB friends.

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Being defensive, argumentative and belligerent when she didn’t understand what we were saying to her. Hard to know with Bob though if he’s not hearing or there is cognitive decline. (My mom has a long and slow ALZ progression so I’m referring to the early stages. By mid stages, she was actually super agreeable and easy to deal with. My dad, well he was another story).

Bummer that his local child has their own health issues. At least they are involved and go visit them.

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I have a very close relative like that who basically always has to be right.

I have learned that superficial conversations are the best. “Oh, that’s too bad”. “That must have been stressful”. Or the occasional “I’m so happy for you”.

It was a difficult transition to make to keep all my opinions to myself but it makes things much easier. And this person is not someone who it is important to me to have in depth convos with so it all works out.

And in this instance, I don’t think it’s any part of a decline as they have always been this way. It just took an awful blowout a few years ago for me to realize I couldn’t take the negativity any more and adopt the above strategy.

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Yes on all of this. Also, in my experience…things can change/decline so quickly. What my mid-80’s parents were doing/capable of doing just six months ago has changed rapidly.

I am also currently in the phase with my father where his reasoning and logic abilities are not what they used to be (to put it mildly), and some of the ideas he comes up with are downright irrational. Any attempt to counter these ideas is met with anger and frustration. This is likely exacerbated by the fact that he (my dad) has always been a difficult, stubborn personality. My hunch is this is where Bob is, too.

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Two things you always pay to be assembled–a bicycle and a grill.

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OP- y’know how you likely have a friend with an elderly parent and when you ask how he’s doing you hear “he has good days and bad days”? This is where you are right now. The good days are when they eagerly decide they want to buy a grill, get themselves to the store, buy the grill. The bad days are when they are surrounded by tiny bolts trying to decipher a schematic. Which makes them angry and frustrated and irritable- just like any of us would be/will be when something we used to do with ease becomes too hard to figure out.

Years ago I started counseling parents on CC to “love the kid on the couch”. These were families where the eldest was winning awards, curing cancer, doing triathalons at the age of 14 and then heading off to read to the blind. And the parents just assumed “Raising kids ain’t so hard”. And then comes number 2 or 3- different kid. Not a joiner. Doesn’t care about winning, is a cheerful and robust contributor to discussions in school but the teachers regularly get frustrated that he or she isn’t “living up to their potential”.

Parents gotta figure out how to love THAT kid, in addition to the one who will clearly have folks saying “gee, they are great parents, look how successful their kid turned out to be”.

This is you. It was easy to tolerate/love/respect/put up with your MIL, warts and all, when she was the healthy and well adjusted widow who had money, owned her own home, was relatively independent with tons of friends and activities she loved. And now comes the hard part. Figuring out a strategy for a different MIL.

Does Bob have dementia, an undiagnosed UTI, a vascular disorder, a meningioma? Who knows. Has your MIL always been a closet narcissist, or an enabler, or whatever being married to your FIL required her to be? Who knows.

But here you are. And as the child of two parents with early onset Alzheimer’s, I’m here to tell you that a person can go from planning an elaborate trip with multiple stops and organized historic tours and then heading back to work the day after returning- jet lag and all- to being someone who stared at the toaster for ten minutes trying to figure out where to put the English muffin. And it can change in a month. Competent organizer, traveler, roll with the punches, doesn’t need a lot of sleep to “good days and bad days” in the blink of an eye. Good days meant going to work (was excellent at compensating for the deficits). Bad days meant keys, cash, ATM card, all disappearing or misplaced or god knows what and the cheerful demeanor replaced by anger and frustration and lashing out when a loved one would ask “how did you get home from work without your car keys?”

And that was the end of the car. Gone the next day.

So my heart goes out to you- you are so magnificent. But the grill is likely the first of many meltdowns and probably a sign that activities requiring reading signs, hand-eye coordination, deciphering instructions are no longer safe for Bob (and your MIL in the passenger seat).

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Bob’s demeanor sounds very typical for an elderly person who is starting to lose their reasoning skills. I feel like I could have lived the grill situation with my dad, word for word. My dad who was always a kind and loving man became very curmudgeonly and rather unpleasant to be around in his last years. He would get very agitated as his shortcomings became more apparent and lash out at those around, insisting his way was THE way.

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I know a couple of people like this, too…where they always have to be right. I use the same tactics with people like that. If you’re the sort of person who wants to be helpful, holding your tongue and NOT offering help or suggestions on how they can fix their problem can be hard.

I’ve found it helpful when dealing with people like this to regularly remind myself that their problems are NOT mine to fix…that I’ll be there to listen, but I’m not going to fix their problems for them.

As a result, I end up doing a lot of saying “Oh, that’s too bad” or “Sounds like that’s been really stressful.” Occasionally, I’ll ask the person what their plans are for dealing with the issue, and when the person says something totally dumb, I just smile and nod and say something like, “Sounds like you have a plan for dealing with it.”

…and what usually ends up happening is the person runs out of steam because they word vomited all of their anger and frustration out loud. turns out that most of the time, they just wanted to be listened to. They didn’t necessarily want a solution or for somebody to swoop in and fix it for them.

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OP:
Just keep reminding yourself that you don’t have to fix their grill problem for them. That issue is not your circus, not your monkeys. Bob’s made it clear he’s got all the answers? Fine, have at it, buddy. Good luck to you, Bob. Something tells me there will be more Grill Drama in the days to come. :wink:

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Re: the stubbornness and insistence that there’s only ONE way to do it and it’s Bob’s…

My MIL did a lot of this. It was so frustrating at times. For YEARS, she insisted that she HAD to do things in a certain order or in a certain way even though there were easier ways to get the thing done, like:

  • Grocery shopping - she’d go through the grocery store and select items based on the order she wrote it down on her list. Because even though she’d cross off each thing as she put it in the cart, apparently if she didn’t go in the list order, she’d forget stuff. As a result, it took her twice as long as a normal person to grocery shop because she’d crisscross the entire store multiple times. Like…it would take her an hour and a half. This finally stopped when her BFF who would drive her everywhere flat out refused to go along with it anymore, and only then did MIL switch to doing an online grocery order pick up…something that my husband had tried for 5 yr to convince her to do.
  • Buying cat food & litter for her 2 cats - my husband tried to convince her for ages to order it online and it would be delivered right to her front door. She refused. And then she’d complain that she had to go to the grocery store every week (instead of every 1.5-2 wk) because she’d run out of cat food. But she’d run out of cat food because she only bought a 1 wk supply, even though the cost was still the same per pound regardless of how much you purchased. She finally switched to online delivery when no one would enable her anymore.
  • Getting prescriptions filled - for a long time, she’d get different prescriptions filled at 3-4 different pharmacies. AND they’d all come due for refills on different dates and on different weeks. Sometimes, she’d have to go to 2 different pharmacies on different days of the week & there was always at least 1 pharmacy pick up per week. She also refused to do drive-through pick up. HAD to go inside “because that’s just how I do it.” Finally switched to a home delivery/mail order pharmacy when her BFF refused to drive her a couple of times a week to pharmacies all over town.
  • Christmas shopping for gifts - insisted for ages that she HAD to go IN PERSON to shop for people’s Christmas gifts, otherwise it wouldn’t be personal enough. Finally gave in when she literally couldn’t walk very far + she refused to use a walker, cane or wheelchair.

With my MIL, my husband used to get SO frustrated because there were really simple solutions to so many of her problems, but she just flat out refused over and over and over again. Eventually, he reached the point with it that he’d say to her, “Ok, well, if you change your mind and want to do it differently, I’m happy to help. Just let me know.” And then after that if she’d complain later on about the topic again, he’d just say, “Sounds like it’s been really frustrating” and NOT offer solutions.

…because she really didn’t want solutions.

My elderly dad, on the other hand, refuses to pay any bill online, still mails checks in for all of his bills because he’s convinced that somebody’s going to steal his identity with online bill pay. He won’t even do pay-by-phone either.

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If I had a dollar for everytime “monkeys” came up in this thread…. :rofl:

@Hoggirl I hope that you see that you are not alone. Many here have experienced similar things with parents or in laws. It ain’t easy.

And I really try to give people the benefit of the doubt because let’s be real…this is all of us in 10, 20, 30 years. The old adage, “treat others as you would want to be treated yourselves “.

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It occurred to me that it has been a minute since I offered a resounding, “THANK YOU!” to all the wonderful cc folks on here who continue to follow this saga and offer support and wisdom. Truly, truly - I am grateful. THANK YOU!!! The ability to come here to vent has saved my sanity many a time.

I’ve shared before that none of us (sil, dh, or myself) has experienced dealing with an aging parent. Fil had started having some physical issues and was grumpy about those, but he’d always been a grumpy PITA, so it was really nothing new. He dropped dead ar age 82 from a pulmonary embolism. And, I’ve shared before that I lost both my parents when I was 24 years old (they were 62 and 63 and in excellent health).

I have certainly had IRL life friends who have navigated these waters. It’s just new to us. It likely would have happened regardless, but Bob’s injection into the scene adds an unexpected layer of complication.

I do hear you all on not offering to help, but that is really hard to do when looking at something potentially dangerous (e.g. dealing with hooking up a propane tank or driving). But I am going to try to keep the monkey/circus mantra and @blossom ’s, “love the kid on the couch,” analogy front and center.

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This makes sense to me.

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I’m sure the CCRC also has resources that Bob can command to come and meet his demands/requests. They are employees and he can treat them as he chooses. They can help instead of family he grates on.

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