Bob certainly sounds like someone with a high degree of asberger’s. Add in his poor vision, poor hearing, poor memory, and narcissistic personality and he’s definitely NOT a caregiver. I’m so sorry that he’s not more caring about MIL, but sadly it’s not a surprise.
I hope they reach out to CCRC nursing services to get MIL some additional care.
Hang on to your sense of humor!Dealing with unwell elders reveals so many frailities of the human condition.
Your MIL- the things women do so their man may save face or not have hurt feelings- she could write a book.
Reminds me of what our pediatrician used to say, “They’ll get better or worse. Come back if they feel worse.” Hope MIL is feeling better, getting stronger.
Mil said she’d call me. She didn’t. Sil called and left a voicemail. She called her back about an hour later. She’d been napping. Hasn’t talked to anyone about her meds. They are going to make a decision about their trip on Wednesday. I have some chicken soup to take to her, but I have not heard from her. Sil encouraged her to let me bring the soup over.
Idk if she will or not. I think she’s ticked at me for being so blunt about Bob yesterday.
She can be ticked, but you’re concerned about her. And she should be glad that at least someone is.
Bob has his issues. The relationship has some icky dynamics. Both have histories.
And even totally normal high-functioning people in solid relationships can find an illness or injury difficult to navigate. Glad that @Hoggirl is bringing grace and help to them.
My mom was very resistant to me being involved in her medical care as it was a big part of her self image that she come across as smart and capable. And I am a highly trained medical professional!
But after several (largely avoidable) mishaps generally involving medications, I used the following strategy.
“Look Mom, I know you like to be in charge of your medical care but clearly it is no longer working as you have been back in the hospital numerous times for things that should be able to be managed without going to the ED. You need to let me help, because it is far more work FOR ME when things go awry and I need to drop everything and save you.”
I know that sounds harsh but it worked. She relented to save me from the incredible stress of having her mismanage her own care.
I can tell you her medical team appreciated it so much! Nothing like an unreliable patient who wants to be independent and is incapable to really make the medical staff run around in circles putting out fires.
I accompanied my own mother on all of her doctor (and ED visits) once she moved nearer to us…a move we insisted needed to happen.
But my husband did not accompany my mother, and I would not agree to do this for my own MIL.
@Hoggirl is being very kind and generous with her time. But this is her husband’s mother. At some point, I think MIL’s kids need to step up to the plate.
I should add…I was working full time when my mother needed my help. I found a way to make it happen because it needed to happen.
I have to wonder if MIL would be more amenable to help if it was being offered from her own kids…
My mom’s PCP is also my PCP. The doctor is used to me getting on my mom’s medical portal to ask her questions about my mom. She is a very good doctor. She said her parents do not listen to any of her medical advice.
Having gone through something like this in January with my own Mom, I believe her doctor won’t answer a direct question such as “is it okay for her to go on the trip?” Instead they’ll reply with carefully couched answers, as doctors make a point to not tell anyone what they should or should not do. And in this case, MIL hearing a doctor not giving a definitive “you should NOT go” may misinterpret their careful answer about her symptoms and condition, as the doctor approving of the trip.
In my situation, I have a healthcare POA for my parents on file at their doctors’ office as my Mom has aphasia and cognitive deficits, and my Dad is in his mid-80s with other health challenges (there needs to be a back up adult for my Mom, in case something happens with my Dad).
In December I had contacted my Mom’s doctor to notify her of an injury to my mom that had affected her mobility; as a result of this injury she was newly using a walker someone had loaned her, and most of the time she was elevating an injured foot. My Mom had seen a different doctor (as this occurred out of town) and so I called my Mom’s doctor to inform her of the situation, and so she’d have notes about this situation in her chart. (I had asked my Dad if he would like me to take care of calling Mom’s doctor and letting her know; he said yes.)
Six weeks later, my Mom’s doctor called me, to say that she had just seen my mother for her annual checkup, and was extremely concerned about how frail she was, and that my Dad (who brought her to the appointment) mentioned to her in passing, that in two weeks they were going to go to Kauai for 6 weeks. (Their condo was on the second floor, without an elevator.) Her doctor told me that she had grave concerns about my Mom’s fragility, to the point that she was concerned my Mom may fall or slip from the exam table without support, and that she did not see how my Mom could travel to and be going up and down stairs in an environment without full accessibility accommodations - her risk of fall and frailty at this time was high. In her opinion, my parents should not go on this trip, and she wanted to let me know this, especially as she expressed her concern about specific challenges to my Mom directly, and my Mom said emphatically “I’m going.”
After getting off the phone with the doctor, I called my Dad, who said Mom was insisting on going, and he asked if I would ask (yep, I know!) the doctor if she would “just tell Mom she can’t go.” I replied to my Dad that a doctor isn’t going to forbid their patient, they can just inform them about risks, but Dad insisted I ask her. (This was a long day for me, and my Mom’s doctor! My Dad didn’t want to be the fall guy, and he also was worried about Mom, along with his ability to care for her on the trip, and he just wanted her doctor to be the one to tell her she couldn’t go. Not him.)
My Mom’s doctor explained that a doctor can’t forbid patients from doing things that will harm them. They won’t even tell them that they “shouldn’t” do it. Both because it is not their role, but importantly because if they did so, it would harm the doctor/patient relationship, and patients stop telling their doctors what they are and are not doing. And when patients begin withholding crucial information, that directly impacts the doctor’s ability to treat them appropriately.
So all that is to say - I might suggest that you don’t ask if they should go on this trip, because the doctor’s equivocal answer might give your MIL the wrong idea. Instead, express your concerns in concrete terms solely about her symptoms (and list every single one), and define the exact type of travel to and from the cruise, the facilities, accessibility, and the medical options on board (and lack thereof). And the doctor can then discuss specific risk factors and outcomes in that environment.
It sure seems like with everything going on with MIL currently, she is a high fall risk right now. Having her walk on unstable ground (to the ship, boarding the ship), and then walking on a moving ship, as well as navigating a cabin and using a shower and toilet (presumably without grab bars…?) while at sea…wow. And I can’t imagine her nausea would improve while traveling or at sea, either.
As others have noted - the medical care on a ship is also limited. If she slips and breaks her hip, or further injures her back, it may be hours or a full day until she is able to be evacuated to a facility in which she could be administered adequate pain relief. If she falls and breaks a hip, she may need to be evacuated by a basket in a helicopter; again, without sufficient pain relief.
I understand that your DH is working full time and that he may not have the capacity to get involved; I do hope that he and your SIL can step up and step in, getting a healthcare POA in place so that MIL’s doctors can talk to them independently, and so that they can be in a position to help when it’s needed in the future, too.
Your MIL is very lucky to have you caring for her and her wellbeing. I admire that you’re not waving your hands at the situation and saying it’s someone else’s problem to deal with, you’re clearly very compassionate and want her to be safe and comfortable.
“If you were my mother I would tell you not to go.” I had my mom’s PCP and Cardiologist on the phone. My mom got it loud and clear. I’ve never had any issues getting straight answers from doctors.
This is my experience as well.
It may be worth discussing what would be needed should they choose to cancel the cruise. Hopefully they have travel insurance which may have a specific form a doctor needs to fill out.
Having someone attend medical appointments can be very awkward. Seniors have some embarassing medical conditions that they may not want discussed in front of others. I think it would be a very good idea to attend though.
My H asked outright at ERs several times whether it not he could/should go overseas to trip to NYC, Scandinavia & Tokyo. He always was told by every doc that he was fit to travel and they wished they could come too.
If he was in MIL’s condition, I’m sure he’d have gotten a different answer.
It’s a good thing they aren’t booked on the European trip with CCRC—I’m sure that’s more $$$ (and the language barrier to being understood)!
If Bob & MIL go on the cruise, it’s not going to end well.
I’m not sure we know if mil is fit or not to go on this cruise.
She may have had a stomach bug, was dehydrated, got fluids and is on the mend. Went to the ED once.
It could be she’s not feeling great. It could be she’s feeling a lot better today.
So many unknowns.
She’s a woman in her 80’s. It takes a while to recover from a stomach bug.
The back is an issue also but again I don’t think we know much. She’s not telling her kids and the collective hive here doesn’t know either.
Considering she was feeling poorly enough to go to ER on Saturday and was very weak and not too lucid on Sunday, it doesn’t bode for a speedy recovery, but correct that we don’t know much. Fingers crossed that good choices are made for MIL!
Update;
I took mil some chicken and rice soup this afternoon. She was much LESS loopy today. She was moving much better as well. She has still not been eating much, though she had eaten an egg for breakfast (You know darn good and well she cooked eggs for Bob). I’m a bit worried about the lack of protein, so I offered to get her some Ensures, but she declined. The best news is she is reporting that her back and hip are significantly improved. Presumably the cortisone shot in her hip worked. It is obvious she is still weak. I think she’s doing a better job of hydrating today. I did say that I noticed she wasn’t using her cane. She said she didn’t feel like she needed it, though she plans to take it on the trip if they go. She took a very long nap and said that made her feel much better.
She did not see anyone at the CCRC clinic today. She knows she needs to be seen so she can talk about her medications. She wants to reduce the number of pills she is taking. The good news is with less pain she should definitely be able to reduce the Tramadol. She is canceling her PT tomorrow. Doesn’t think she has the strength to do that. They plan to make a decision about the trip by Wednesday or Thursday.
Bob was there when I arrived. He was definitely distant with me. After a short greeting, he went back in their bedroom and then left to go to the gym to exercise for 20 minutes. I left before he returned. I think my swift and immediate reaction to the winking has made him scared of me. I don’t care. While he was gone I asked mil if he had Dh’s, sil’s, or my phone number in his phone. “No. We need to do that.” I pointed out that she was the one who called from the hospital. What if she hadn’t been able to? What if something happens on the trip? I told her whether they are local or in a foreign country, he needs to be able to reach us if something happens. I also asked if he were capable of making a call on his cell phone. She said he was. Ds is likely going over to visit in the next couple of days. I have prompted him to help with getting our phone numbers in Bob’s phone along with a couple of other tech things they need help with. She will take it better from her grandson. Specifically, making sure she has either dh or sil as her emergency contact for the cruise. I told her I had asked about getting our numbers in Bob’s phone in February - six months ago. Told her that was how long I’d had Bob in my contacts.
Mil mentioned the boat. It’s supposed to be fixed. Mil thought ds might like to go for a boat ride. I told her she needed to talk to him about that. I told him that when I got home. He’s well-aware of all the boat problems. I told him he could do what he liked. He’s working remotely while here and also has some things lined up with hometown friends. Not sure he’ll have time anyway.
While I am still not keen on their taking this trip (I never was), I’m less frantically panicked after seeing her today.
At least Canada is much closer than Europe and they speak English. Also, maybe they’ll stay on the boat and enjoy room service.
So glad to hear MIL is improving! Great news!
Glad she’s feeling better. She might actually rest on the trip instead of cooking and waiting on Bob. I think it’s hilarious he’s avoiding you now. Probably not used to pushback from women.