It’d be nice to get a lot of the story from the horse’s mouth, so I might just start with “Tell me about Bob and your exciting new romance.” My guess is that what she volunteers and how will provide you with your openings.
Depending on your relationship, you can bring up different things. “Gosh, having been with DH for 30 years, I can’t imagine being intimate with anyone else. How did you do that?” “Could you be with him without being married?” “How do you weigh that excitement of companionship with the possibility of being saddled with his care?” This can all be conversational because really, these are the kinds of things friends talk about. You’re in such a great position because you can do this as a listener.
Sounds like she’s giving lots of info outside of “gentle phrasings” to others.
Maybe you just need to hit her with the brass tacks and tell her your family concerns.
You have legitimate concerns and it’s coming up quickly. You might need to meet this directly with both MIL and Bob also. It’s not easy but better sooner than too late.
@Hoggirl you mentioned your MIL has been in her current city or house for 65 years. Besides SIL who is nearby, does she have other friends, families, activities that she participates in - that she would miss if she moved away? My point sort of being maybe at her age and after so many years her world has gotten smaller and a change - a new place, new people sounds like a welcome change.
I hope in my 80’s if I’m still pretty mobile and well that I will still want to seek new things and have activities and an active enough life - not just sit at home watching the days pass by.
She’s been in the city 65 years. Her current house for 25.
She does have other friends there and likes her neighbors. Friend L (12 years younger than she) is three doors down in her neighborhood. Another good friend (about 15 years younger) is also in the ‘hood, but she travels a LOT. One other good friend in the neighborhood is her porch-drinking buddy. About the same age as she, but her husband (not in great health) is 94. Oh, and Friend C (who is close to my sil’s age) also lives in the same town. Mil’s younger sister is fairly local, but she honestly doesn’t see her much. Just general family gatherings.
She quit her main, weekly volunteer gig at the end of 2024 which she had for 20 years. One bridge group has folded, though another continues. Not sure how often they play. Maybe every two weeks. She plays hand and foot, but only once a month. Attends church but not involved (no Bible study, SS, circle, or volunteering). So, yes, her activities are declining.
The CCRC has lots of offerings, and I wonder if she will try any of them out during her visit. Bob seems pretty uninvolved, so idk. My dh doesn’t think she’ll go to anything by herself, so I’m not sure how good of a feel she will get.
And, keep in mind, both wives #1 (mother of their children) and #4 live in the same CCRC. There are 400 people who live in the community. Not sure how that is apportioned among the different sections. Independent living is the most. I mean, seems like she would encounter one or both of them in the dining hall.
I think I’m still a bit confused…so the tentative plan is for her to leave her home of many years (sell it?) and move to the CCRC with Bob? What happens if it doesn’t work out? Then where will she go?
@Hoggirl I don’t have any advice to add, but I wanted to say that I look forward to this thread every time I log onto CC! I feel like this could be a reality show
But mil told sil on Sunday that she and Bob have talked about getting married. It is the speed at which things are moving and Bob’s history and patterns of behavior (e.g. pursuit of mil before divorce was even final) that are concerning to us. Sil is on the ground and says mil is acting out of character.
Yours are all valid questions. Our assumption is that IF they were to marry, she would move from the town she (and sil) is currently living in to the town where dh and I live and move into Bob’s CCRC. Dh and I live in the same town as Bob. She has lived in her town for 65 years. Our (and Bob’S) town is three hours from there.
Our concern over her house is a big one. We all think that if this were to come to pass she should keep her current home for at least a year. We also believe if this should come to pass she should get a pre-nuptial agreement. Basically, we are all strategizing about contingency plans should they decide to get married. Plans that she would hopefully be amenable to and that we believe would protect her finances should things not work out between her and Bob.
Avoid using “protect your finances”. To many elderly people it is a code for “protect my inheritance”. Try “giving you more options down the line” or “empowering you to make your own decisions”. Whether discussing a prenup, estate planning, naming a trustee, tax planning, etc. You don’t want to trigger her “my money my life” impulse!!!
You might be able to point out that renting the home would provide a stream of income that could help pay monthly CCRC costs and leave her with options in case she doesn’t like the CCRC for whatever reason.
I would start out with something simple like “Tell me about Bob…” and see where things go. I don’t know enough about your relationship to advise on how deep into things you can go without her opening the door. You could ask “Do you have any concerns you want to talk through” if that feels comfortable to you. Unless you are an attorney or in that field I would stay away from a pre-nup specific discussion, but something like “This is moving fast, and I’m happy to see you so happy, but you want to make sure you protect yourself and have a plan B if you need one” could work. I think it may be kind of like talking to a kid - what do they say - you want 4-5 positives for each negative? If you ask too many “Have you considered…” kinds of questions without giving positive comments, that might make her less inclined to talk. Just my random thoughts.
I agree with giving MIL the power to design her own financial life. Ask about Bob, ask about her vision of the future. I’d tell her she’s so lucky to still be healthy and that you think she has so much living still to do, including many more trips like this one on the Queen Mary so you think she should seek financial planning.
Offer for you and DH (and SIL?) to go to a financial planner with her, or help her find one on her own. Suggest she talk about her house, living in the CCRC, the higher/lower COL in the two towns, how much she wants to spend on traveling or luxuries in the coming years, on helping grandchildren (or not helping) etc. Stress that they are all her decisions but you want to help her set up everything so she can do everything she wants to do. Maybe help her make a bucket list and how much she’ll need to do certain things!
But I’d focus on her making the decisions with her money, and that you are excited for her to do all the things she wants to do.
I agree that renting her current house might be a good idea, unless she was considering downsizing herself in the next year or two.
My dad was not a controlling person. He did handle all of the financial matters and did all of the practical things like license plates, buying cars and handling maintenance.
It was overwhelming for mom once dad passed away. She had to handle things she never had to think about. Even more than a decade later, she makes decisions that are confounding to me and my sibling.
I don’t know if it’s a generational difference but mom would be happy if she found someone to help her make these choices. There have been some pitfalls that my sibling and I have had to navigate because mom frankly has made some decisions that don’t entirely make sense.
I wish you luck in this and hope that your mil will be open to listening to you, your husband and your sil if she decides to make major changes to her situation
By the time my parents entered CCRC, they entrusted everything to my older brother who had been partners with my dad in their law practice. Mom and dad were NOT capable of handling these issues and my brother took very good care of their finances. They got most of what he thought they needed.
Here are some dollar and cents. If you MIL were to sell the house today she would need to pay capital gain over 250K. If she were to leave the house to her children then they would get a step up and not have to pay taxes on capital gain.
If she were to get married then she should amend her will to make sure she can still leave her assets to her kids as intended.
I think one other thing to consider is what happens when one or both get sick and need a lot of care. Will both sides of kids help out, or will the kids separate the couple and only take care of their own parent. I have seen few cases when those couples need to be separated and they were very sad.
My good friend’s mom married someone who was older second time around. Her H kids expected her to take care of their dad and she was old herself, so my friend ended up doing most of the work for her mom’s H.
I think one has to be sure of boundaries so they aren’t sucked into helping with care of a stranger their parent or IL started a relationship but is unable to assist as they age (unless of course one is OK with assisting).
Even when one is in a good CCRC, there is additional care needed as folks become more frail and need more help. Paid care only goes so far.
And even if you aren’t providing hands on care it’s time consuming. My mom’s assisted living facility had one or more errors on the bill every single month. No, the 15 dollar charge for a guest meal that was not eaten is not the end of the world. But every month…charges for trips not taken, meals not eaten, overnight CNA charge when mom was alone and had no CNA…it adds up. Someone needs to be reviewing the invoices, getting the charges reversed, maintaining enough cash in the account…
Agree that the fact that he’s in a CCRC doesn’t mean the spouse wouldn’t have to be involved.
In fact, my understanding from my sources is that the more well off in this particular CCRC do not go into the other sections outside of independent living until it’s an absolute necessity. They simply bring in outside help to the independent living section just as one would do if they never even moved into a CCRC.
There are rumors that was what wife #3 - the one who died - wanted to do. Bring outside help into their independent living home, but Bob would not hear of it. She was well off, but he didn’t want outside people in his house. She moved to AL or SN or whatever. Another rumor is that when wife #4 fell Bob just, “couldn’t handle it,” and insisted she go into skilled nursing to rehab rather than bring outside help into their independent living home.
IF those rumors are true, my suspicion is that Bob himself does not want to go into those other sections if he ever needs to, so he wants to find someone he’s comfortable with to care for him as he potentially needs more care. But that would never be reciprocated by him for the wife. So, if he declines first he’ll expect mil to tend to him. If she declines first, he’ll boot her to AL, MC, or SN - whichever is appropriate. That is ONLY my theory.
