I doubt she’s nervous at all. Except maybe about if I ask questions about a wedding date. Since they clearly don’t want to share what they’re thinking
I have ZERO intentions about talking about inheritances. Doesn’t impact me. Dh certainly won’t say anything. I’d be thrilled if she lives happily ever after with Bob and dies with a dollar. Can’t speak to sil’s feelings on that.
I’ve been reading this thread with interest from the beginning but haven’t commented yet! I just want to say that your MIL is VERY lucky to have you @Hoggirl and your DH in her life, to keep an eye on things, listen and ask questions, provide help as you can, and support her in this big change, whatever it turns out to be. You’re doing all the right things. In the end, the heart wants what it wants, and there’s only so much you can do. Although there have been a lot of good suggestions here!
I’m glad that money is not an issue and that the plan is to spend time in both locations– even if it doesn’t end up that way–so that the change for your MIL is not so abrupt. Hope the dinner is fun–and good luck!
One question I’d be wondering about is what happens if more care is needed — like Bob or MIL need 24/7 care or upgrade to higher level of care. Will that also be split 50/50 or be borne by the party needing more care?
It is fairly common for needs to change and more care to be needed short or longer term.
My mom needed 24/7 CNAs which cost us an extra $25k+ per month plus the monthly CCRC fees of $7000. That adds up quickly.
I wouldn’t bring up the wedding, but I might say something to the effect of “what are you planning for the rest of 2025?”
I think you should ask how they liked the tea on the ship :).
I would probably just go with the flow, see what they wanted to talk about.
Have you seen them since the cruise? If not, that would be a logical thing to talk about.
If they haven’t told you they’re getting married, then I would NOT be the one to bring that up.
If she mentions moving, then talking about the house, and how all of the related “things” will be handled (finances included or not), but things like what stuff from her house she will take, what clubs/activities she’s looking forward to participating in, stuff like that.
I do think it’s important for your husband and her to have a sit down with spreadsheet to see the “impact” on her finances, if any costs escalate, maybe discuss the idea of “fairness” - if she’s keeping her house then she shouldn’t pay half of his fees, stuff like that. I know he can only do so much, and you’re all “lucky” she can afford all of this with no help from anyone.
Good luck!
Very lucky MIL can afford this.
But paying for her home, and her share of the CCRC may be comfortable for her budget. If “Bob” expects her to split the costs if/when HE needs intensive care– that may be stretching her budget. And for her to pay for her own unit if he moves up- is totally fair- and again, affordable for her. But then also being on the hook for half of his new arrangement- now we’re talking serious money. And we don’t know how the place treats a married couple- do they issue one bill and then the couple “takes care of it’ from whatever sources they need to, or will they split the bill so that Bob gets his bill (24/7 care?) and MIL gets her own bill? Once they’re married is she legally responsible for his portion if he runs out of funds?
This is where it gets messy. And not to be too crass- it’s one reason why many elderly people in a committed relationship decide not to get married. I have a friend- been with the partner for a very long time. She would forfeit a survivor’s pension (spouse killed tragically in a workplace accident) if she remarries. So they did the math. Family not thrilled but it is what it is. He’s responsible for HIS debts and cash flow; she’s responsible for HER debts and cash flow; nobody has any illusions about a partner with deep pockets bailing out the other.
Please remember that I wasn’t at the finance meeting with the CCRC, so I cannot answer all these questions with great certainty or specificity.
Yes, the fees are jointly and severally liable. The fees do NOT go up as care levels change - except as related to meals. Because you go from one included meal per day to three included meals per day. Now, if you bring in outside help, that is a different story, obviously. AL is a single room. SN is a shared room. I do agree the joint and several liability issue is important.
The buy-ins effectively serve as your LT care policy. This is why they are so high and nonrefundable after a certain period of time. The current buy in for a home, “start at,” $450k. Bob’s home is 2,000 sq ft. There are also homes that are only 1,600 sq ft. So, the current buy-in for Bob’s home is definitely greater than $450k.
The fees go up every year (they provided a chart that shows the increases from the inception of the CCRC).
Also, I know many here think it’s, “unfair,” for mil to pay half the fees plus the cost of maintaining her home. Regrettably, she offered to pay half. She isn’t going to renege on that now. She just won’t.
Please also know that my husband is a CPA and has served as a VP of finance in a Fortune 100 company. He is also a realtor. Granted, this isn’t a real estate contract AT ALL, but he has contract experience. Interesting fact - he actually worked on the feasibility study for this CCRC when it was founded.
I truly appreciate ALL the advice everyone is providing. I believe Bob is somewhat of an anomaly at the CCRC. He moved in in his early-mid 60s. Don’t know if that was common initially, but it isn’t now. My friend’s folks have been on the waiting list for a home for a while. They just got one of the smaller ones (1,600 sq ft). Her dad is 90, and her mom is 86. Now, maybe they will live both to be > than 100, but that seems unlikely. As soon as both pass (or have to move to another section of the CCRC) another $450k (or whatever the buy-ins are at the time) will be obtained. It’s a calculated risk by both the CCRC and the resident. Not everyone needs LT care. Some people simply drop dead while they are still living in the independent living section.
@Hoggirl — we understand that YOU weren’t at the CCRC finance meeting, but those questions about increased cost of care are definitely something your H and MIL need to discuss and your MIL needs to understand that IF she marries Bob, she may be on the hook for ALL his increased costs if he runs out of money. That’s what joint & several liability means and she has to decide whether she WANTS that, as it may mean that she may run out of money for her own care if she lives longer than him but he needs expensive additional caregivers first.
I hope you at least get a yummy dinner!
I think we can assume that Hoggirl’s CPA dh knows how to cover the bases with his mom
Wow, it seems crazy to me that a couple in their 80’s or 90’s want a 2000 (or even 1600) sq foot home to take care of! Silly question, but who is responsible for the upkeep of the “homes”?? Do the residents clean themselves or hire cleaners? That’s a lot of space.
Wow, it seems crazy to me that a couple in their 80’s or 90’s want a 2000 (or even 1600) sq foot home to take care of! Silly question, but who is responsible for the upkeep of the “homes”?? Do the residents clean themselves or hire cleaners? That’s a lot of space.
First, I believe that housekeeping is one of the amenities provided.
Second, remember that Bob bought his home at the CRCC while still in his 60s.
Lastly, MIL still owns a home (I believe this to be a house) and she is in her 80s. I imagine her home is at least 1600 sq. ft.
Housecleaning every other week is included. Flat linen service is included - not sure of that frequency.
Okay, I was wrong. Bob has only been at the CCRC for 15 years. He mentioned that tonight. So moved in at age 70.
Bob does seem to be trying to engage. It’s tough because his hearing loss is significant. He seemed more interested in us. I think mil has been coaching him. He asked about dh’s work and our son’s start-up. He just seems a bit socially awkward. I think he talks about himself because listening to answers to questions is literally difficult.
No wedding date talk. What we did learn is that it seems they will no longer be spending any time apart. He’s driving her home Monday and staying all week. She will return with him to the CCRC the following week and do her buy-in at that point.
I did ask now that they were splitting time how that might impact what furniture she would bring to the CCRC. She said until she decides to sell her house she won’t bring any furniture to the CCRC. So, that simplifies things for now anyway.
I sympathize with the loss of hearing issue. Having gone through that with family and friends, it can be terribly frustrating to not be listened to, have different questions than the ones you asked answered, and just generally to miss the connection. You might subtly ask MIL if he ever considered hearing aids… somehow, she’s making it happen with him!
He has hearing aids!!
Hearing aids often aren’t a complete answer and can only do so much in correcting hearing losses, especially if the hearing loss is very profound.
My fil got cochlear implants maybe a decade ago thinking it would help his profound hearing loss.
It hasn’t. It’s very hard to communicate with him. At some point hearing aids only help a little bit.
TIP - If anybody here uses facetime (Iphone or IPAD) to chat with hard of hearing parents, try turning on Live Captions (real time subtitles). Not 100% perfect on transcription accuracy and has a slight delay… but it is a game changer.
@Hoggirl i admire the kindness you have dealt with this situation. If they can delay the marriage portion of it and just live in sin, it might reduce some of the estate and potential liability issues? Maybe they get married in a year on another cruise if all is copacetic? Gives everyone a year to see if things are working and an escape ramp if not.
since many of us have elderly parents, going to share a tip. My parents have an Amazon Alexa. I am signed in from my phone (a few hours away). When there are reminders for appointments or meetings or whatever … or the phone is left off the hook … I set up a reminders on Alexa. Or make an announcement “your phone is off the hook”.
my dad wanted an alarm clock every morning but can’t turn one on and off due to vision issues and dexterity. I set a morning announcement on Alexa. He doesn’t have to do anything, but it tells him when to get up (or not if he is having a slow day).
Super easy way for elderly’s to get information also. Just wanted to share.
Side note: maybe we should make a separate thread for tips and tricks for elderly parents!