I think the concern is not about MIL spending her money on “them”. It’s discovering that Bob has a teeny gambling habit and typically drops 5K a month at a casino, is taking cash advances on MIL’s debit card to pay for his hobby, and that once he goes into a higher level of care, MIL is on the hook to pay for his increased costs plus pay 100% of the costs of the unit she’s living in. MIL having to cover dinner out once a week pales in comparison to one month in memory care with 24/7 coverage.
11 Likes
Not only that, but as a spouse she might be responsible for the extra costs related to Bob’s care that aren’t covered by anything else if his own funds dry up.
7 Likes
But a pre-nup doesn’t change this liability. If MIL will be liable to a third party (I don’t think she will be because gambling debts aren’t marital debts, and medical debts aren’t either) signing a pre-nup doesn’t change that. A pre-nup is a contract between the parties, not between the couple and lenders, the CCRC, medicare etc.
2 Likes
That seems true for divorce situation (though paper trail easier with prenup with pre-marriage asset listing). But if MIL dies, I think(?) spouse gets a defined minimum amount. In NY, 35% (or $50k if greater), not sure other states.
1 Like
Yes. A big part of the motivation for the pre-nup is to have him waive his inheritance rights.
After they have been married one year, he can elect against her will if it does not include him and leave him a certain amount. This is because intestancy laws kick in if a spouse is left nothing. It is much easier to disinherit a kid than a spouse. Pretty sure all states have some form of this, though percentages vary by state. Also children or no children impacts that percentage as well. In our state, he could elect against her will and claim 1/3 of her assets. Would be higher if she had no children.
As I’ve written before, she’s not rolling in money, but she’s comfortable. But, if they had been married a year before she died, he could elect against her will and claim that 1/3. Which ultimately means that would likely wind up going to his children instead of her own.
7 Likes
I know nothing about this, but I’ve heard of post-nups. If time runs out, is that an option?
1 Like
It is, but if he ain’t willing to sign before, he won’t after.
It’s already drafted. Dh only needs to update her balance sheet. Will take five minutes
7 Likes
If it’s that close to being a wrap, I would def get dh to push this through. MIL will listen to her son more, and I am sure Bob will be less likely to push against another man.
10 Likes
She should not marry Bob if Bob is not on board with the prenup.
11 Likes
I’m hoping @Hoggirl ’s husband can convince mom to finish the pre-nup, even applying a little “sternness” or whatever with her if necessary. I suspect she will deal with it better from him than from SIL.
9 Likes
Sounds like pre-nup plus a will with minimal amount to Bill is needed (so as to not enable him to “elect against the will” - new term to me).
Unfortunately, just mentioning him and giving him a token amount is insufficient. Spouses are statutorily entitled to a certain percentage. Varies by state and whether or not there are children. That’s why the pre-nup is needed. To waive those rights.
Kids are not statutorily entitled to anything. However, the best way to disinherit a kid is to name them and leave them $10. Keeps them from being considered a pretermitted heir.
4 Likes
I don’t know Arkansas law, but in most states it is a percentage of marital assets, not all assets, that the spouse is entitled to. Again I’m assuming this won’t be a decades long marriage where the assets have time to become significant marital assets or that they won’t co-mingle a lot of accounts. If they want to do that (co-mingle), not sure what you can do to stop them.
In Colorado, the children of one spouse but not the other do get some inheritance. NOt sure if that is only for intestate deaths or every child/stepchild. My friends got around this by dumping everything into a trust and giving the children (who by the way are 40+ and almost 60 years old) what they wanted them to get, and for the older child generation skipping and giving her portion to the granddaughter (they don’t like the 60 year old daughter for lots of complicated reasons).
MIL could also put her money into a trust if she can live off her SS, pensions, interest.
2 Likes
Assets not affected by intestacy
-
Assets in a living trust
-
Life insurance or retirement accounts with designated beneficiaries
-
Jointly owned property (like joint bank accounts or real estate owned as a joint tenant)
-
Payable-on-death accounts
(above is from google search). There may be easy ways to shield money, even without a will. But tis always a good idea to have a will (or trust) too.
The mystery to me is why Bob would resist getting paperwork done. Tis to the benefit of his family too.
3 Likes
The problem is that I don’t think Bob has been terribly forthcoming about his finances so we aren’t sure he is as well-positioned as MIL. Is that correct, @Hoggirl?
6 Likes
Arkansas, Ohio, and Kentucky have dower and curtesy laws. Which are distinct from intestate laws. I’m probably being a bit too general in my talking about waiving inheritance rights in an effort to simplify the discussion and not get too into the weeds on this.
To us, things seem clearer and more straight-forward if the prenup is executed.
And, yes @Youdon_tsay is right - we have no knowledge of Bob’s financial status. Mil might - we just don’t know.
To whomever mentioned this upthread - I 100% agree Bob won’t push back against dh like he has against sil. My (limited) observations of him put him in that patriarchal (if not downright misogynistic) category.
10 Likes
I think he doesn’t want to reveal that he has comparatively fewer assets.
8 Likes
That was me. Unfortunately, I know the type all too well. And I’m guessing MIL would respond to her son being her “protector.”
2 Likes
A while ago, you had said that Bob was amenable to having a prenup. So, I really hope your MIL doesn’t have the wedding until the prenup is signed. Further, if you say that MIL may not know about Bob’s financial assets, she should be privy to that before entering into the marriage. Full disclosure. Hopefully, she will listen to what I imagine is similar advice from your husband, her son.
6 Likes
I hope your H is able to convince his mom to have the prenup signed. Good luck — hope things work out well for her.
2 Likes