My opinion doesn’t matter in the scheme of any of this, but since it is a discussion, I’ll share mine.
I think no matter how unlikeable Bob may be, and if not happy about or approving of this marriage, I would maintain the same traditions and amount of time together as in the past with MIL, and not change that because she is with Bob. If certain holidays were shared in the past, I’d continue to do so. Now that they live in the same town, even more reason to do so. Bob may have to be tolerated in order to share these family gatherings with MIL. Of course, hopefully there can be other opportunities for Hoggirl and/or her husband to get together with MIL without Bob (not a holiday event). If it were me, I would not necessarily expect the generation in their ‘80s to initiate the holiday plans, but would expect them to be invited, as I assume they were in the past, even if their marital status or unlikable partner is now in the picture. Same thing goes for one’s young adult kids, in which case I would expect their parents to initiate the holiday plans, and include their partners or spouses even if not thrilled with them, and not give up spending time with their truly loved ones on these special occasions.
It’s definitely a kindness to be sure MIL isn’t isolated and to continue to include her (with or without Bob, as things evolve). It really makes a difference that our loved ones feel included (and their spouses). Selective deafness/blindness can be very helpful. People learn what a they live—perhaps Bob has not been around people who value and treat servers and people in positions where they interface with the public well so he hasn’t had the opportunity to see how amazingly well courtesy is rewarded by fabulous service. Maybe MIL can teach him?!?!
What is left to be seen is if MIL WANTS to continue some of the same family traditions. Many reasons. She could be influenced by Bob. She could be spending some holidays or other free time with Bobs family.
We’ve already seen that she has been less communicative since being with Bob. Doesn’t mean her family should be inviting or protective with her. But she also since being with Bob has been more distant. I could be wrong - and maybe she never was - but she hasn’t seemed like “warm fuzzy huggy” MIL.
I don’t think @Hoggirl, her family and her SIL are going to forget about MIL. But her decisions to be less interactive seem to babe set the stage for a “new normal” for their relationship.
See? This is part of the problem. Mil’s moving (not necessarily her marrying Bob) has thrown a kink into our traditions. I started to type out the logistics, but it would be TL;DR material. Let’s just say we have a well-oiled machine that works perfectly for our family and home sizes. We have, “done,” Christmas in mil and sil’s town at sil’s house with our staying overnight at mil’s. Mil has stated she will be in our/Bob’s town for this Christmas. Sil won’t leave her dogs. Sil does not want to drive up and back on Christmas Day because she doesn’t want to spend Christmas with Bob anyway.
The reality is that sil has never lived farther than half an hour from her mother. Right now, she is five minutes away from her. Where the CCRC is, we are five minutes away from mil. Sil is about to experience a drastic change with this move. I think a big part of this situation is that sil is feeling somewhat abandoned. Like mil has chosen Bob over her.
Back to Christmas - we could spend Christmas with mil and Bob, but sil will not come here on Christmas. She does not want to. But, my point is that what has happened in the past, won’t be happening this year. We need a new playbook, and no one knows what that looks like. I’m not ready to design it all by myself.
(Next part is for the thread as a whole - not directed @soozievt - I just wanted to extract her quote about traditions)
Please know that we are not going low-contact with mil. I should clarify: When I say that I am not going to initiate Christmas talk, I mean not right now. I honestly feel like I jumped the gun on planning TG precisely because I did NOT want mil to be left with nowhere to go. I do not think it is unreasonable to wait and see if mil brings up Christmas and makes a suggestion or asks us what our plans are. The truth is that I am not so sure mil isn’t going to go low-contact with US. Or, even if not, they may choose to spend Christmas with Bob’s son. Perhaps THEY will invite them.
When I mentioned maintaining traditions and the amount of time together….I realize Christmas used to be celebrated in MIL’s old city, where SIL lives, but the bottom line is your immediate family was with MIL on Christmas. So, I meant that need not change, even if now it is in your city, not her old city. What SIL does is up to her (not sure if she is willing to either bring her dog with her or get a dog sitter for a night, or perhaps none of these things), and I realize this is a BIG change for her that MIL moved away. But you and your husband could (if you want) still spend Christmas with MIL. Obviously, only do what you wish!
I also didn’t just mean Christmas, but just any special occasions. While the location of such holiday gatherings may differ, the bottom line I was referring to is not giving up spending major occasions with MIL just because she is with Bob. Of course, if she chooses to do a holiday with Bob’s family instead, there’s that.
Beyond special occasions, I was also referring to the amount of time together doesn’t need to diminish just because Bob is in her life, and in fact, she now lives near you.
What MIL wants to do remains to be seen. I was simply referring to your family’s end of it.
My parents moved to a sunbelt state when they retired. It was my dad who pushed for it, my mom was quite unhappy to be moving far away from the kids and grandkids
I was ok with them moving as this was what dad really wanted.
My sibling on the other hand never quite forgave them and somehow blamed my mom for moving away from them.
So I see how sil could be feeling. I hope that she will get through all this.
There is alot of truth to that. After my MIL started marrying her next husbands, the relationship between my husband and her changed. Never could seem to have a heart to hearts with him not around and we actually like the current one. It changes so much.
It’s gonna be harder, but I hope there is a way to spend time with MIL (and sister with MIL) alone without Bob present, like invite just her to do something together.
I have no suggestions but wanted to send my sympathy. My dad died relatively young but had multiple wives over the years beginning in our early adult years. Growing up, our family moved a ton and used traditions, especially around the holidays, to maintain a sense of constancy. So the new wives really challenged thaose! Over dinner the other night, we reminisced on the many forms Thanksgiving had taken over the years – the wives, their kids, the in-laws, the friends, the dogs! Much of it is now quite hysterical and even nostalgic. But there were also a million little landmines as we tried to navigate each other’s traditions.
You have to come up with something that works logistically for your nuclear family. Then you decide who to prioritize. If it were me, I’d make it SIL as having good sibling relationships is key (to me). VRBO or SIL’s, depending on cast of characters and need for privacy! MIL and Bob can do their first Christmas together at the CCRA and have a separate celebration with you. Or they can come back to her old town and join all of you. But I wouldn’t let them be the tail wagging the dog.
Your SIL is going to have to begin adjusting to the fact that it’s not going to be what it was. It’ll just be the best it can make it. Acknowledging her grief about that is important because she may be having trouble naming it as that, which can also make it feel more like anger.
When I was in my early 20s, just out of college and in my first apartment, I invited my parents to come spend a weekend with me (it might have been a holiday, I can’t recall at this point).
I was shocked when my mother told me that she and my (very long-standing) stepfather who had raised me had just split and she was with someone else and the two of them would be coming up to visit me instead. It was about a 500 mile distance.
I wasn’t ready for this at all and eventually after what I remember as a lot of tears on my part we agreed that she would come visit me by herself. It was very stressful.
She eventually married him and we all get along great but I think when people are newly in a relationship they may lose track of how their choices affect others and that not everyone is on their same wavelength right away.
That will be something I can do (girlie lunches) since I am local. It’s going to be much harder for sil who will be three hours away. The transportation issues with mil’s not wanting to drive by herself will inhibit that. Plus, once her house sells, she will be spending nights at sil’s IF she goes to visit her.
I do not think Bob will be keen on mil going to visit sil. Sil will not invite Bob. She will expect mil alone. I don’t think that will fly.
Sil needs to be willing to come here and spend time. She can stay at our house. I have told her this. The dogs are a problem. I am not inviting her two heavy-shedding dogs to our house. One of them is particularly anxious. Sil says either she or her son have to be the one to take care of them. The convenience of having her mother always nearby is going to be gone. I struggle with being sympathetic with that having lived far away from our ds for the last 10+ years. I think it is not uncommon for adult children to have to travel TO their aging parents. And the dog thing - well, one could argue sil is prioritizing the comfort of her dogs over visiting her mother.
As someone who has a somewhat difficult dog situation, I have to say that, ignoring everything else, your mil should not have to structure her life around sil’s dog situation.
My BIL also has a challenging dog situation because his dog has difficulty with strangers. My BIL is able to figure out how to make things work but it does limit his travels some. He’s happiest when we go and visit him—fortunately the dog is fond of us and BIL has huge house and nice yard for dog.
It’s a tricky situation for SIL. I can certainly understand her feelings of loss and abandonment. Brother and I used to live about 40 minutes apart in different Chicago suburbs. And that 40 minutes included the Tristate past O’Hare, so it could expand to any amount of time. When our parents moved from Michigan, they bought a condo in brother’s town. Everyone was mad at me for being hurt by this.
So is it a bit selfish of SIL to bemoan the changes that mainly disadvantage her? Perhaps. It’s actually true that her mom chose Bob and the move with no thought of her, which is certainly well within MIL’s rights. But hurtful nonetheless, when getting together becomes easier for everyone else and harder for her. She’s struggling to deal with the changes. But refusing contact with Bob will not help her.
How does DH feel about his sister? He’ll likely be dealing with her for many more years than with his mother.
For this imminent holiday season, at least, it might be charitable to go a bit out of the way to reassure SIL that she still matters. Does her son lived with her? Is your son close with his cousin? Will MIL’s house be available if you go there for a day or two so you don’t have to stay with dogs?
Sure is easier to have no living parents, siblings across the country, and only the minor holiday of Chanukah to celebrate.
Dear nephew does not live with sil. Lives 30 minutes away. I would not say ds and his cousin are particularly close. Even though they are both onlies.
I wouldn’t mind staying with sil and the dogs. I like her dogs. I am just not inviting the dogs to my house. We are in a townhouse, have no yard, they shed, etc. BUT, sil has inly one guest bedroom with one queen bed. With ds in the mix we need two beds. Plus, usually my nephew spends Christmas Eve in that guest bedroom. He could skip that and just arrive Christmas morning since he’s close. But, we can’t all stay with sil. We have two guest bedrooms, each with a queen bed. So I can’t sleep all three (ds, sil, and dear nephew) here either. AND, sil does not want to come up here on Christmas Day anyway.
I will not stay in mil’s house with Bob there. We would get a hotel. Ds could do what he wanted - hotel with us or stay with his grandmother. For that matter we could do a round trip there in one day. Less time together, but dh has said we could do that. Likewise sil and nephew could do a round trip here. At one point mil did say to me - “We have them outnumbered - we can make them come here.” Not sure if I shared that before I did NOT share that with sil.
The overarching issue is that sil doesn’t want to host Bob in her home. At all. But, she doesn’t want to come up here either.
For THIS year, mil could host Christmas Day in *her* home. Sil and nephew could do their usual Christmas Eve together that way. We could do hotel or one day round trip. But, mil has stated she and Bob will be here in our town on Christmas? Honestly, IMO, mil has caused the disruption. She should be the one who is working to help transition/smooth things over. She could pick up a fully prepared meal from a grocery store.
Oh, I was thinking if MIL stayed in your area and/or visited with Bob’s family, then you could stay at her house and celebrate with SIL instead. And be removed from the possibility of dealing with Bob.
Is MIL actually pleased with the tense dynamics? It does seem like for this year, at least, better if SIL and MIL don’t have a chance for a clash.
I don’t know. I think mil just doesn’t get it. I think she is oblivious to everything but Bob.
I failed to answer your question about dh and his sister. They are not particularly close, but they get along okay. They work well as a team.
Dh has not been as, “reactive,” to mil’s recent actions and decisions as sil has been. Other than when she and Bob were thinking of driving back to our town when she was sick with the flu and couldn’t do all the planned events in her town. And would have had to stay in a hotel since CCRC house was being painted. He talked them out of that plan. Oh! And, he also got into the mix when we couldn’t reach her after one of their between town drives. When they didn’t let us know they had arrived safely. But, overall I would say he is less intrusive in mil’s business than sil is.
The convenience of having her mother always nearby is going to be gone. I struggle with being sympathetic with that having lived far away from our ds for the last 10+ years. I think it is not uncommon for adult children to have to travel TO their aging parents. And the dog thing - well, one could argue sil is prioritizing the comfort of her dogs over visiting her mother.
I did NOT share that with sil.