<p>Here would be my chance, if I were a parent, to discuss the issue with my daughter, first of all. I would ask her to help develop a goal of showing true love to her friend, this boy, their parents, and to protect the potential newborn(s). Our goal would be to set my concern about being “hurt”, by the consequences of my divulging the sexual behavior, aside. What is most important is to do everything possible to prevent a child from being born, as it would be devastating for the child to be born to this couple (abortion/killing the baby is not what the baby would want his/her parents to do to them, so this is not an option). This would require straight up talk with the parents. It is about caring enough to confront when bad is happening. If I were to have a child, I would want other parents to please inform me of what’s up with my kid. That is the most loving thing to do. If we shut our eyes to bad, then it only grows in our society. There is a time to stand up in the face of bad actions, like Dr. Laura does. It really does take a village to raise a child. We should all love each other enough to keep each other in line, but to do so in a humble and gentle way, offering as much help as possible.</p>
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<p>I don’t know if I agree with this. I think that 8th grade boys are not mature enough to engage in respectful, reciprocal sex. Most kids don’t have the developmental maturity to think dispassionately about sex at all. Unfortunately, their bodies say different. I think 13 or 14 is way too early for a girl to have sex, but does that mean that a girl that age can’t be both sexually active and confident? Does it necessarily follow that all sexualy active girls of that age have underlying problems? (This kind of thinking isn’t that far from the “slut” label.)</p>
<p>Just reading this thread makes me soooooo glad that my two Ds turn 21 and 19 in the next month or so. I realize how lucky I was that I didn’t have to deal with this. </p>
<p>I do remember that in h.s. health class, there was a “list” of about 10 intimate behaviors, starting at the level of holding hands and ending on “going all the way”. The assignment was that the students were to “draw the line” on what they thought was appropriate for their age level. Then they had to bring it home and have a parent (both of us did it for ours) do the same exercise based on what the PARENT thought was appropriate for the kid. Although I think we were fairly straightforward in our discussions about sex up until then, that was certainly an excellent conversation starter at our house! Ha, I remember with oldest D, each of us had excellent (separate) conversations about it with her. BTW (my line was a couple of behaviors sooner than D’s, ha…I explained my reasoning.) </p>
<p>And yes, I must admit that H admitted that if he had sons instead of daughters that he probably would have had a bit of a different point of view. That was an eye opener to us who thought we were so cool and not having double standards…</p>
<p>And thanks for the clarification on the “bases” (although I’ve got to admit that even as an extremely naive high schoolers, I wasn’t really sure about what the bases meant back then, either!!!) Of course, I knew what reaching “home” meant, but there was a lot of fuzzy info between 2nd and 3rd and halfway to home…!)</p>
<p>And, unfortunately, mousegray, to answer your question, I, too, really feel that a girl of 13 or 14 can’t be both sexually active and confident, I’m sorry to say.</p>
<p>apmom, that sounds like a great exercise! The most in-depth talk we had with our boys was prompted by a Scout merit badge activity.</p>
<p>I’ve been thinking a lot about the potential double standard – that girls who have a lot of sexual partners at a young age have self-esteem issues while no one says that about a sexually active boy. I do think part of it has to do with how at this age it’s usually a one-way street. Just like apmom, regretfully, I have yet to meet a sexually precocious girl who didn’t seem very needy.</p>
<p>“does that mean that a girl that age can’t be both sexually active and confident?”</p>
<p>Maybe, in another culture, but I’ve never met one in this. Have you?</p>
<p>Hypothetically, a person could have any combination of character traits and actions, but that doesn’t mean people fitting the description are walking around our cities. That’s not who I meet when I work with middle schoolers. </p>
<p>I agree with you that eighth grade boys are not capable of respectful, reciprocal sex. That was patently obvious to me when I was in eighth grade, even though I’d never even been on a date. So what’s the purpose in having sex with them? Why would a rational person who was seeking physical fulfillment go there more than once? I conclude that they must be getting something else out of it.</p>
<p>When reading you parents’ comments I find it stunning that your comments insinuate a relaxed stance on out of wedlock sexual activity with other teens. It really is striking to read. </p>
<p>Don’t you love your daughters/sons enough to monitor them, set boundaries, and to state “I love you and will prove it by providing this structure to your hormones!”</p>
<p>It is ridiculous making an argument about double standards, boys getting a break over girls. Are you kidding me?! What matter does it make? The fact is, in my household, my parents love me enough to set the standard. I meet it because I trust they know best and that they adore me. I will be presenting my virgin body to my spouse as a gift to them. If parents cared enough to train and structure their teens’ sexuality, they would not even be discussing this issue. PARENTS! BUCK UP AND BE STRONG SO WE CAN RESPECT YOU! My guess is that you allow your kids to slut around because you were that way, or you have succombed to this liberal worldly thinking. Be honorable parents.</p>
<p>Truelove, assuming you might be referring to my posts (since I seem to be one of the only one bothered by double standards), re-read what I actually write and come back to it. What do you see as the ‘main point of the argument’? This is a good exercise for you to practice critical thinking. Read it again. See if you can do it. </p>
<p>Where do I have a relaxed stance? As I noted, I would be upset if this involved my son OR daughter. Moreover, I have worked hard to provide the same direction and guidance for both son and daughter to make the right decisions around sex and other important aspects of their life. I want them to go away with critical thinking skills that they can use to make important decisions whether I’m watching or not (since I can never always be watching). As I also previously stated, I use LOGIC (as in its a risk to your health, your emotional well being, and your future to have pre-marital sex). My MAIN POINT is I could not care less about the reasoning, ‘what will people think’. THAT is neither an intelligent nor justifiable reason to make personal decisions. What I wrote has nothing to do with how I feel about my kids having sex (which is not actually different than your parents): it has to do with how I parent and communicate to my kids to ensure they make the right decisions. </p>
<p>My children are not ‘slutting around’. They are brilliant, mature, high achievers and thus far, they have made fantastic, mature decisions. The last thing they do is follow rules blindly or out of fear from arbitrary rules set by authority figures. Sometimes authority figures are (gasp!) actually wrong! And those authority figures will not be wandering the bathroom stalls at malls to enforce their rules. The beauty of my parenting approach is it allows my kids to internalize important critical thinking skills so they can make teh RIGHT decision, and not because of appearances, or because they might get caught. They do the RIGHT thing because they think makes sense to do so, not because of parental threat or fear of ‘getting caught’ by us or the neighbors. </p>
<p>I completely trust my kids to travel to foreign countries alone, manage their own finances, and make their own doctors appointments. Neither is interested in drinking or drugs, both are vegan (despite us parents being meat eaters), and actually neither is into the teen party scene. Both have been too busy for much dating. Both of them have been active in political movements and have worked helping youth in the 3rd world. Our kids are turning out pretty damn good, and I think because their parents chose to engage in critical thinking to help them make the right decisions, rather than enforce arbitrary rules set by dad, or god, or whoever is ‘in charge’. The LAST thing I want them worrying about is what Mr. Bud, the racist at the corner, thinks of their hair color, or whether the cool kids will be impressed by the brand they are wearing, or whether the neighbors will approve of the car they chose to drive. It’s the logic of “what will people think of me” that leads some kids to engage in sex when they do not want to!</p>
<p>As an aside, I always found it amusing that at the bible camp my daughter the aetheist went to (she was the only one but loved the water sports there so went every summer). The ‘religious’ girls were the ones decked out in heavy makeup and hiked mini-skirts…she was the hipster who didn’t really care what the boys thought.</p>
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<p>Given what you describe, I am now wondering if this raises a concern about your daughter. I’m not judging her-- I don’t know very much at all- but if this is her friend or especially close friend, it might be a concern me. Not concern in that she’d be a bad influence, but concern about why she gravitates to a friend who has these challenges and what the friend provides to her and vice versa.</p>
<p>Hey Star, your words, “This is a good exercise for you to practice critical thinking. Read it again. See if you can do it.” are very “critical” and “teachy” and sound quite condescending and are emotionally driven, as noted by your very defensive tone. These are not very rational, level-headed communication techniques toward a teen or anyone. </p>
<p>Your statements are rude and demeaning. I feel for your kids, really. My parents are always respectful to me and others. Perhaps your kids and you can learn something at those bible camps you go to. Ya think? Maybe if you and your protege’s could stop judging the external of the bible camp girls and look at your hearts, where i think bible camps encourage you to look, you would fair even better than where you are at today. </p>
<p>I do appreciate your taking the time to talk to your kids about issues. But you still don’t even think about the potential baby’s feelings and thoughts being brought into the world by irresponsible, selfish, let’s get an orgasm teen parents. You don’t quite get the whole picture. Again, maybe bible camp can help you here.</p>
<p>^ Don’t disturb the mamma bear: judge my children and refer to them as ‘slutting around’ after completely misconstruing my arguments, and that is what you get. </p>
<p>Now re-reading your postings, I realize you are so way out there with your ‘present my virgin body’…'train and structure your children’s sexuality"… “succumbing to this liberal worldly thinking” and duh, you are obviously a ■■■■■. I stupidly took the bait. </p>
<p>Now that you’ve had your entertainment, go do your homework or clean up your room, make yourself useful! lol.</p>
<p>Starbright you are funny! And right on about many points, especially the international morals vs our cultures.</p>
<p>I want to add: I lived in the same community since my oldest was 3. I “grew up” with the parents and felt very lucky to know most and their children going into middle school and High School. Until we got there. Then, one after another I would be stunned by a parents action or reaction to other childrens behavior, but totally blind to their own child’s participation. By High School it seemed to be a free for all- nobody at the helm of their own family, yet gossip, gossip, gossip about everyone else. I didn’t want to a “strict” parent since I had grown up in that kind of household, but next thing you know I felt like a shrew.Why? Parents letting there child take kids in car when 15 1/2 and against the law (I didn’t, was married to a lawyer and was well aware of liability) leave teenagers home alone for long weekends so they did not have to “condone” teenage drinking and parties, but provided the opportunity for it. Give teenager use of the family vacation cabin alone, and to invite friends up. Assist in daughters having co-ed sleep overs.Find bong stash and they give it back to teenager- it goes on and on. I tried calling the parents I had been very good friends with for 10+ years, but was told, “I’m so tired” blah blah. I waged my own battle all the way through Senior year, and now when I drive by the high school I have hateful thoughts, because the parents were such wimps, afraid of their child.</p>
<p>Side note- I have boys, and my experience from middle school on is the girls were in control as a group and very aggressive. My son’s GF mother said to me “I heard you were angry when your S. didn’t come home last night” Yes I said, he has a curfew. She said “they looked so cute sleeping together on the couch I didn’t want to wake them up”. ??? Was this real? I thought I was trying to protect her girl too…Nooooo.</p>
<p>At graduation there were perhaps 2 families that I had any real respect for. What a disappointment. But, I must say I was almost gleeful when they called out son’s name graduating w/ High Honors, NHS Pres. and all sorts of awards. Was accepted to great schools too. Almost all the parents I had been arm wrestling with the last 4 years were stunned- some even asked me his GPA. They had no idea he had stayed the course the whole time. He left almost all of them behind that summer and entered a top uni while their boys went to CC. </p>
<p>Everyone should read the book “The Price of Privilege” by Madeline Levine. Amazon. Very
informative.</p>
<p>"She said “they looked so cute sleeping together on the couch I didn’t want to wake them up”. ??? "</p>
<p>Wow. Just wow.</p>
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<p>I hope my kids won’t want to do that as a gift to me. I would prefer cash.</p>
<p>Sorry about the confusion Oldfort, I meant to convey that I wish to give myself as a pure gift to my spouse. My statement has nothing to do with my parents. Just God, who gave me my body to take care of, and my spouse is what my statement is about.</p>
<p>It appears that you added “parents” to my quote. That spins my statement in quite a bizarre direction. Careful there!</p>
<p>Couldn’t do it with the quote. I wanted to do it outside of the quote, but it looked strange. I was trying to clarify as to how I was reading it.</p>
<p>8th grade is too young, but I don’t feel it’s my business to say or do anything. My girls probably won’t get married until much later (probably in the late 20s). I wouldn’t expect them to be virgins when they get married, nor do I think it’s healthy.</p>
<p>@oldfort --May I ask why you would not think it is healthy to remain a virgin until married. I have never heard this before.</p>
<p>TrueLove - obviously you have a very strong religious believe that I do not share. Only you need to be happy with your decision and believe. My daughters are brought up to believe sex is an expression of love (and there is responsibility that comes with loving someone also), they could love someone just as deeply with or without a marriage license.</p>
<p>I was sure I responded to this thread last night. Oh well.</p>
<p>My feeling is–8th grade way, way too young. Not ready for the emotional even if ready for the physical. (I think we all agree.) But mom should not confront other mom.</p>
<p>I hoped all 3 of my kids would get through HS being virgins. There are many reasons for this desire–health related, emotional, moral, psychological, etc. I think they all did!</p>
<p>But “presenting yourself” at marriage is extreme. And it is definitely religion based. So-- if you are of a particular religion–you should be a virgin. If not, having sex before marriage seems sensible. What if you are not compatible, ie they do not rock your boat!!</p>