Opinions on Marital Money Conflict

Parent Cafe
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<p>Many good points and questions…</p>

<p>No, I didn’t intend to imply I was testing the waters in my response to Barron’s assertion that chicks would be all over my husband in a flash (and honestly, they will be). I thought it was a little presumptuous to think that they’d be all over him, and that a similar thing would not happen to me. I’m definitely a confident, successful, fit, intelligent, attractive person. But, I am not really interested in going down that path. I am not there. I would hope this can be repaired…some folks have added a little perspective. But, I do feel beaten down over the years.</p>

<p>Re: the contracting career. We have mutually agreed that he might lose his shirt due to perfectionism and so-so estimating skills. He also doesn’t really have a head for business – I’ve had to guide him on some of the rental property stuff (formal leases since he’s a hand shake kind of guy, tracking expenses, credit checks, etc…and well, oh really, they put an out of ground pool in the yard…what’s our liability look like for that?) I’ve also said I’d be ok with a business, given lifestyle adjustments that would need to occur if income drops. He is not fond of the words ‘lifestyle adjustment’. Friends that we have known who have started businesses have made sacrifices to help ensure success. I think I know him pretty well now, and he won’t sacrifice.</p>

<p>Someone mentioned that I need to adjust my expectations…I don’t think I do. I’m not the one who wanted the big house or the private HS. They are great, but I can live without them, and I have communicated that (but I don’t want to take my child out of a place she loves either). I told him I liked one of the properties he renovated – I’d live there in a heartbeat. I am not sure where anyone got the idea that I am living the high life and need to make adjustments. There is no country club, no frequent restaurants, no fancy salons, no expensive clothing or jewelry, no house cleaner, normal vacations ($2,000-2500) and maybe a better vacation every 5 years. I spend frugally on groceries and cook most nights. </p>

<p>Regarding my sister…my parents are working on a plan. It is a mental illness that is very severe, but very unpredictable and episodic. She is completely compliant with meds, and all behavior – a model of physical health. Between rare episodes, she is perfectly sane – only reserved. She is highly educated, and the extent of the illness was not apparent until she was in her late 30s. She has the best healthcare that can be provided. Call the illness “late onset”, because that’s what it was. Everyone has accepted it, we are all hopeful, but it’s time to plan for the future. But trust me, when it is bad, it’s one of the most horrible things you could witness. DH has known her since age 14 – so he understands her and the support she has, and her commitment to trying to be as well as she can.</p>

<p>On the topic of dealbreakers…I never anticipated a 25k motorcycle. We married early and didn’t consider a list of these things. I think dealbreaker lists can be modified periodically though!</p>

<p>To some posters…I am not in agreement with the notion that he has contributed more than I have to our balance sheet and that he should be justly rewarded for that. (someone said something to the effect of “he’s worked hard and deserves it”…I guess I don’t?? We don’t know until several years from now if the risk we have jointly taken will pay off. I’m not convinced about our primary residence at all – yes we have good equity – but it’s equal to every dime that went into it. We are in a business venture now that does not have a definitive outcome. It was a team effort – he could not have done it without me, and I could not have done it without him. I don’t believe one of us works more hours than the other. My overtime is taken home, and laundry is done while I work at home. Studying hundreds of hours for my professional certs and required continuing ed has been done with my daughter while she reads, or is on the computer. do all the kid stuff – he’s never attended a school concert, arranged weekend activities, taken a girl to Jonas Brothers or Justin Bieber. College planning was also not his thing. His extra time is physical. </p>

<p>My work is for US, not me. I have no intention of working until age 70 to pay for a Harley.</p>

<p>Someone suggested a convertible…we have one. It’s a commuter car and older now. We have enjoyed it – so he can feel the wind any time he wants! (or get fans, LOL I love you JYM and your friend)</p>

<p>I’ve decided counseling is a definite…he won’t go to sort out his issues with a marital counselor, but he might go to a financial counselor to discuss the wiseness of this decision based on present and future circumstances. A 20 plus year marriage does deserve this. If he won’t go, then I think I know what needs to be done.</p>

<p>I am willing to compromise on a couple of fronts – I always have been. But he has never been one to compromise. I had offered the inheritance as a joint investment – I think that is a formidable compromise.</p>

<p>18 pages and 7000 plus views…must have hit a topic that is close to home for some</p>

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<p>Yes, marriage issues always hit close to home.</p>

<p>I wish you the best in resolving these issues.</p>

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<p>But come on, it’s a Harley. Sounds like the guy wants one major splurge in his life before its too late. Are you really going to break up a 20 year marriage and a family over a motorcycle? My h has been talking about a motorcycle for years. And if we had some extra $, not nearly a million in semi-liquid assets I would be fine with him getting one, if only to go out to the garage and look at it. He probably wouldn’t spend nearly that much though. You could always sell it for a decent price if you needed the $$. I don’t think you’ll have to work until 70 to pay for the Harley.</p>

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<p>Zoosermom…I’ve become accustomed to the way he asks for things. He starts dropping hints weeks and weeks in advance. But I had never heard the word Harley in 20 years…until this summer. I almost wonder if I am being manipulated, and he will ratchet down the request to a 5000 beater bike, because that’s what he knew I would say yes to if brow beaten enough.</p>

<p>I am inclined to compromise, but would prefer he starts out small - just to see if he even has the time to ride one. I don’t think you start out with a 25k or 30k bike. I would make it conditional on additional disability and life insurance, and a year of leasing, or a cheaper bike to learn on and try out.</p>

<p>I get the fact he wants to be a guy and have a bike. We’ve both had significant grief in the past 5 years, and I am sure some of it is that. He wants to enjoy life while he can. The beater convertible has been enough for me.</p>

<p>Now, the DEALBREAKER is TATOOS!!!</p>

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<p>But he has already figured out how to earn the money for it. You won’t have to work extra at all.</p>

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<p>That’s a good idea but be prepared for the financial counselor to tell you that you can afford it. Are you prepared to hear that?</p>

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<p>I don’t think you should do that. I think you should keep it in your own name. The money is still there to use for joint things if you wish but it is your money. Does he even want you to put it in his name?</p>

<p>Sidebar – My recently deceased mother’s estate was not small. My husband doesn’t even want my inheritance in his name, it’s all in mine. But I have used it to take a substantial bite out of our mortgage and invested quite a bit of it into fixing up our house. Why would he even care if it in his name if I’m going to use it for things for us?</p>

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<p>You sure did!</p>

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Has he ever had one before or something similar? My brother had one for years and there came a time when he just didn’t use it anymore and sold it, but I could see him having one again in midlife because he knows that he would ride it. My husband, on the other hand, occasionally expressed envy of that bike but doesn’t have the frame of reference to know if it would be a worthwhile purchase for him. Does your husband have the frame of reference to know that? If not, then I think you’d totally be within your rights to ask him to rent for a while to make sure he would want to make a permanent commitment.</p>

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I am very sorry for your loss.</p>

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<p>Thanks zoosermom. It’s been almost a year but it is still very difficult.</p>

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<p>Hotchiliepepper,</p>

<p>I think it’s safe to say that you really need to take some personal time for just you and work through some of your personal things going on in your life. You have a lot of emotions - a future inheritence house, a fun-loving husband that really hasn’t grown up, a disabled sister, and I don’t think anybody here really understands what the issue is.</p>

<p>You’re certainly feeling a lot of pressure…but perhaps you don’t need to be under the pressure that you are under. Perhaps you don’t always have to be the responsible one. Perhaps you can do something fun for a change. The world really won’t stop spinning.</p>

<p>take it easy and take a breather from life. I think your husband will appreciate that. And maybe if you’re more relaxed and less stressed, he won’t feel the need to escape on a motorbike and will enjoy doing things with you again, too.</p>

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<p>dmd77…I liked your post. I have a lot in my life that makes me so happy. It’s just not stuff! It’s doing things with my kids, it’s helping them develop and guiding them…it’s time together with family. (sorry to be trite, but that’s what I like) I am so lucky to have healthy young parents to have around and beautiful healthy daughters. We travel on long weekends here and there. </p>

<p>My response to loss has been to hold tight to my loved ones and do things with them.</p>

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<p>You said “someone said something to the effect of “he’s worked hard and deserves it”…I guess I don’t??” (sorry, forgot how to quote)</p>

<p>That’s what some of us are saying – you deserve it too but you would never be able to bring yourself to spend that kind of money so you think he shouldn’t either. If you are how I am imagining you are (which is just how my dad was), there will never be enough money where you feel comfortable spending a chunk of it. You are just waiting for the other shoe to drop. Your husband doesn’t want to live that way.</p>

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<p>NOW you mention the tatoo! It’s the perfect compromise. He can get the Harley Davidson logo tatooed on his bicep for alot less than 25K, and you don’t have to buy extra insurance.</p>

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<p>OP, I am thinking more about your reference to the larger house and private schools. My ex-H was also the one who insisted that we look at private schools for our kids. Hadn’t occurred to me… I, of course, ended up being the one to visit and evaluate schools, and in the end I was the one who hustled in my career and climbed the ladder so we could pay the tuition. Now that we are divorced, he does not contribute a penny to D2’s tuition (D1 is off at college now, which he also does not pay for). He also HAD to have a large library in our house we built when the kids were a bit older (twice the size of my home office).</p>

<p>I have to say, I do not regret the private school decision, as our school choice has been GREAT for our kids. Worth the money and sweat, in my opinion. And I am very happy now that I am divorced that I worked hard to build my career so I can afford to support my kids, since I can’t count on him. But there were days when I was resentful during our marriage that he had the attitude of wanting the finer things in life, yet he didn’t lift a finger to better his career situation to pay for it (for what it is worth, he also liked to collect fly rods, shotguns, and wine – probably $25,000 worth over the years!). I, too, would have blown a gasket he had wanted one large ticket item after all the years of diligence for the sake of the kids and family I had put in.</p>

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<p>I think this is the root of your problem. It sounds like you’re always sawing back on the reins so he won’t gallop right off a cliff. If this thread were about a teenager spendthrift, we might be saying, “Let him make his own mistakes, he’ll see.” But in this case, if he does gallop off that cliff, he’ll take you with him. Quite a dilemma!</p>

<p>You mentioned he had a deprived childhood–I also know a guy with a deprived childhood who now “has to” have the best of everything. He just sent his kid to an expensive college that he can’t really afford, and is paying for a dorm for the kid even though the school is in his hometown. He refused to consider state universities for his son because they weren’t (according to him) “good enough.” I think it must be a real trial being married to that guy. (His wife is the main wage-earner, but goes along with everything he says.)</p>

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<p>Over 7000 views, nearly 300 replies, 36 hours.</p>

<p>Is this a hot button in our lives outside the college application process, or what?</p>

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<p>^ And all for a motorcycle ;)</p>

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<p>Wow – this thread has exploded! Definitely a hot button. IMO, it’s time for the OP to ask the old “Dear Abby” question: Are you better off with him or without him? There seems to be SO much more going on than a motorcycle. Financial counseling is a start, but marriage counseling would also be extremely worthwhile – IF your H would go. Have you told him this may a “deal breaker?” What is his response? Is he willing to walk away from the marriage if he doesn’t get his Harley?</p>

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<p>*We have mutually agreed that he might lose his shirt due to perfectionism and so-so estimating skills. He also doesn’t really have a head for business – I’ve had to guide him on some of the rental property stuff (formal leases since he’s a hand shake kind of guy, tracking expenses, credit checks, etc…and well, oh really, they put an out of ground pool in the yard…what’s our liability look like for that?) I’ve also said I’d be ok with a business, given lifestyle adjustments that would need to occur if income drops. He is not fond of the words ‘lifestyle adjustment’. Friends that we have known who have started businesses have made sacrifices to help ensure success. I think I know him pretty well now, and he won’t sacrifice.
*</p>

<p>And people wonder why she’s had to be the adult in financial matters? </p>

<p>*To some posters…I am not in agreement with the notion that he has contributed more than I have to our balance sheet and that he should be justly rewarded for that. (someone said something to the effect of “he’s worked hard and deserves it”…I guess I don’t?? We don’t know until several years from now if the risk we have jointly taken will pay off. I’m not convinced about our primary residence at all – yes we have good equity – but it’s equal to every dime that went into it. We are in a business venture now that does not have a definitive outcome. It was a team effort – he could not have done it without me, and I could not have done it without him. I don’t believe one of us works more hours than the other. My overtime is taken home, and laundry is done while I work at home. Studying hundreds of hours for my professional certs and required continuing ed has been done with my daughter while she reads, or is on the computer. do all the kid stuff – he’s never attended a school concert, arranged weekend activities, taken a girl to Jonas Brothers or Justin Bieber. College planning was also not his thing. His extra time is physical. *</p>

<p>Right…like many women, you have another full-time job at home…for no pay.</p>

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<p>I’m with you on that one.</p>

<p>The key question, however, is whether or not he’s with you. If he is, let him enjoy himself a little bit. If he’s happy, he’s with you, and he’s contributing to the marriage, what else do you need?</p>

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<p>Agree.</p>

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<p>It’s really interesting to read all these different attitudes about money, managing money within a marriage, women working, men working, side jobs, family financial dynamics. I’ve always heard that money is the number one thing couples fight about. Just reading this thread is a mini study on the nature of why that is.</p>