Opinions on Marital Money Conflict

Parent Cafe
301

<p>kinda off topic- but my H & I were just talking about motorcycles the other day- a former neighbor was visiting and showing off his new toy. H was talking about people @ work who ride bikes and how the ones that ride Harleys have all the accoutrement to go along with it. Harley t- shirts, Harley stickers on their car & Harley tats and thongs I imagine. :rolleyes:
People that ride other bikes don’t get into it to that point- just the Harleys.</p>

<p>But the way that my H drives, I would be scared to death to see him on a bike, I would almost rather he have an affair instead if he was having a midlife crisis.
( oh- maybe I better encourage him to get a new pair of skis)</p>

302

<p>Skis are cheaper than Harleys! :D</p>

303

<p>The inheritance belongs to the OP - at least in California. Any recompense received for the fix-up, which sounds as though the parents will pay above and beyond the inheritance, belongs to both husband and wife equally. That’s the legal part. But what should they do? Whatever works in the marriage. There are huge issues of resentment when one spouse is happy in their work and one is not, yet the one who is happy decides how money is spent. IMO, the OP is not unreasonable in her unhappiness.</p>

304

<p>I think many marriage counselors would tell you about 90% of the time the woman is the mover on counseling and their basic attitude is–he’s a mess–fix HIM and everything will be fine. But in many cases the issues are far deeper with the woman who are FAR better at rationalizing their own behavior and convincing themselves that every thing is the other person’s fault. So I take very single claim of the OP with a big grain of salt. It might very well be what she believes and it might very well be a tilted account. Any man whose idea of a vacation is fixing up rental properties is not to be dismissed out of hand.</p>

305

<p>Woe, I’ve never seen CCers so angry with each other. Just shows what a contentious thing money is.</p>

<p>Yes, we only have her side so we can only respond to that. But surely we all know couples where one is childish and irresponsible. </p>

<p>Everyone is acting like they’re rich. A $1mm net worth with most tied up in real estate is not a lot if they’re in their 50s, hope to retire at a reasonable age and not sell their expensive home. </p>

<p>They could easily lose $ on the real estate. I would not feel secure facing big college bills on their situation either.</p>

<p>I personally believe in spending money on re recreation, but long married couples have established spending habits and it seems clear the DH has decided to depart from theirs without agreement.</p>

<p>Why should she shut up and take it?</p>

<p>I would absolutely keep the inherited money seperate and explain I was doing do for financial security given his willingness to abandon joint decision making.</p>

<p>Man do they need counseling! Maybe it will bring them to a place where she has to let him have more fun. Maybe it will make him understand he’s not being a team player. Either way, of it’s not resolved it will fester and get uglier.</p>

<p>I would absolutely tell DH that marriage counseling is necessary for you so you can resolve your feeling about leaving the marriage. If he refuses, that would tell me a lot.</p>

306

<p>Had an interesting conversation with my DH on the way to holiday services (happy new year to those of you who celebrate). We talked about how we as a couple make decisions to spend/save $$.</p>

<p>Neither of us care much about “stuff”. We are careful savers, and do spend on things we consider a priority for both of us (as someone said above, education is a good investment that won’t lose value). We take one family vacation a year if the schedules align (usually to a ski slope, which some could consider “risky”). We balance the “enjoy life” with the “save for a rainy day”. </p>

<p>Two- three years ago we started to talk about doing a remodel on our now 23 yr old house. We had some extra funds available at the time (DH had a “double income” from severance/retirement package after 20 yrs of employment, and a new job he began after leaving the previous co), and I increased the amount I 'd been saving each month in preparation for the remodel. I saved up the $$ over the course of a year or so, combined with some $ we had in a liquid account that DH agreed was fine to spend on a remodel. Was the remodel more my idea than his? You betcha. Did he think it was all that important or was it more a “want” than a “necessity”? Probably. Did it cost more than the Harley described above? You betcha. A LOT, LOT more. But we considered it an investment in the house that was also something we could enjoy. And it wasn’t risky like a motorcycle or sky-diving (if you have read my past threads, my family members tend to break a lot of bones). Did my H feel as strongly about updating the kitchen/bathrooms/ lighting etc as I did? Of course not. Does he enjoy it? I hope so. Bottom line, he participated all along the way in interviewing contractors, watching the budget (which, as usual, ran over) etc. And while it wasn’t as important to him as it was to me, we made decisions together. </p>

<p>We cut things out of the project when I discovered I had to give money to my father to help cover his living expenses (almost as much as that Harley) and then, shortly after the start of the project, the new start-up co that my H went to work for became a victim of the economy, and he was laid off. So we went from his having a double income to no income (the severence paid for about 9 mos total). There was no turning back from the project, as walls were already torn out. Fortunately I work, and I took on a bit more (I am self-employed) to keep the cash flow steady. Also, as we had already earmarked the $ for this project, it was already there to be spent.</p>

<p>My point in all of this is that you have to be a team. You have to consider your partners feelings but you also have to prepare for the “what if’s”, and you have to be reasonable (my favorite word in the English language). </p>

<p>I happened to look at today’s “rue la la” sales. There were $2,400- $2,700 purses that were already sold out! Yikes. That to me would not be a reasonable purchase, but thats just me. Obviously some people considered these items a bargain! There are still some $3k and $5K purses available, should anyone want the Kieselstein-Cord bags (never heard of them). </p>

<p>I think alumother’s post #303 is spot on. and then there is good ol’ barrons trying to be purposely outrageously provocative again. Sigh. Making up silly statistics for the sake of argument? Why? Most couples go to therapy at the encouragement of the wife. Far fewer husbands initiate couples therapy. There is no evidence that women rationalize more than men or that their issues are “far deeper”. I’d take anything barrons says with a serious, serious grain of salt.</p>

307

<p>Agree with Alumother’s post 303 and Redroses’ post 305. </p>

<p>I’m also not against using some funds for pleasure for one spouse. But the money the spouse is earning is belongs to the couple and the couple should jointly decide how money is spent that is earned. Part of that decision should include making sure each one gets to do something he/she wants to do or get individually. $25,000 is a lot of money and it is all for one person and should be a joint decision, and should not come before using it for things that the family needs. If this is extra money above and beyond what the family needs, then sure, each person should be able to get or do some pleasurable things. It should not all be decided by one spouse and not all be for one spouse. $25,000 is s substantial amount for one spouse’s pleasure.</p>

308

<p>I cross posted with jym but agree with her too. And in jym’s case, the remodeling was something both spouses benefitted from or utilize (even if one spouse cared about it more than the other), which is different than $25,000 for one spouse’s sole enjoyment and $0 for the other’s sole enjoyment. I’m into spouse’s getting things or doing things just for themselves, don’t get me wrong, but there should be balance and it should involve mutual decision making rather than one person deciding how money will be spent.</p>

309

<p>I am surprised that so many feel the earned money is community property. Not that I disagree, but my H has always earned the bulk of the money ( despite what I would have preferred - as it also required him to work mandatory overtime, often three weekends a month- I wasn’t able to use him for child care at all really- let alone anything else).
His rationale has always been, he takes money off the top for what he wants & we pay the bills with what is left over- even if there isn’t enough to go around.
I am not allowed to say anything, because I have it * easy*. : rolleyes:
( Even though once he gets home- all his time is his own- whether I am working or in school, that has never been the case for me).
I may print out this thread to show him, not really to start a fight, but I don’t think he even works with many who are married, so they don’t have this issue.</p>

310

<p>I can’t believe I read every-single-post in this thread! </p>

<p>Being married for 28 years, I know all about the give and take and compromises of a marriage. I’m married to the man - I am NOT his mother. I also know that whether you have 1 million or 10 million, you can never have enough money to cover catastrophic incidents…so live your life while you can. I’m not saying throw total caution to the wind but …damn, it’s just a motorcycle. </p>

<p>although we all know it’s not about the bike. OP’s is so unhappy and life is toooo short to be miserable. She knows what she needs to do but wants validation from CC??</p>

311

<p>EK, I know some couples where the husbands spend “off the top” or on “plastic”, and the wives to do the same thing. Some of these wives have never worked outside of the home, they have a housekeeper or somebody to clean a couple of times per week, and they don’t blink at spending $1000 on not just one handbag, but 5-7 of these beauties every year! Oh, and shoes, stacks of them at the cost of $250 per pair. I have seen them end up in divorces, forced home sales, and bankruptcy. I have also seen a few couples who can afford this lifestyle and more than what I described, and it is fine. The latter are famillies who inherited 3 generations or more in money (millions).</p>

312

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<p>There might be a better way to phrase this.</p>

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<p>I can’t believe it either.</p>

313

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<p>I think Alumother’s sentence sums up the underlying issues with outstanding concision; no, it’s not about the bike–the bike is a symptom.</p>

<p>I also think that the OP should consider the advice given by a poster above that she should make a unilateral decision to leave/change her job, since her H feels able to make unilateral decisions about money.</p>

<p>It seems clear to me that her work hours/lack of fulfillment in the job, coupled with her H’s unwillingness to acknowledge that this is a big problem, are truly the source of her unhappiness.</p>

314

<p>Oh, and shoes, stacks of them at the cost of $250 per pair.</p>

<p>I was trying to get my H to admit I was pretty low maintenance yesterday - and I commented that I didn’t buy shoes- his retort was that I had more shoes than he did.
Well maybe- I have tennis shoes, flip flops, boots, heels & sandals, whereas he has boots & tennis shoes- plus shoes that I have bought him that he never wears…, but seriously, I have bought one pair of shoes in the last year & that was a pair of slip on black shoes to wear to yoga/airport- I didn’t have any slip ons except for flip flops.</p>

<p>I still think I am low maintenance.
:wink:
( I expect my big splurge for this season will be to get my grandmothers camel hair coat restyled so it fits me a little better- she was a tad larger than I am- it’s a pretty nice coat though- very MadMen)</p>

315

<p>I absolutely agree with garland 100% about that! Excellent post, garland.</p>

316

<p>Ek, it is all relative. For some low maintenance may mean that they are not driving a new BMW, but for others it means that they only buy 8 year old compact no name brand cars. </p>

<p>I remind my DH that I am low maintenance too. He knows it, but would rather not acknowledge it. I know how to stretch a dollar very well.</p>

317

<p>* seems clear to me that her work hours/lack of fulfillment in the job, coupled with her H’s unwillingness to acknowledge that this is a big problem, are truly the source of her unhappiness.*</p>

<p>I agree, my H is pretty supportive of me ( emphasis on * now*), to do what I think I need to, to feel more centered. He has always been more about doing fun things- he would take off skiing/ fishing etc with his friends, even if we hadn’t gone out as a couple or even to do errands for months.( which is possibly why I was attracted to him in the first place- cause I am serious/intense and have a hard time having fun- ) l So I totally understand how years of burnout, can really weigh on a person or a marriage.</p>

<p>However-& this is what I am not clear on for OP- if the marriage is worth working on- if they love each other- then it is worth working it out & not trying to get into a keeping track line of thinking.</p>

<p>Is this just one more toy in a long line of toys? Or is this something he has wanted forever, and now he sees the possibility of being able to do it?
If it is the latter- I would say go ahead- as frankly it seems that financially, they are doing better than most ( us anyway ;)- although personally, I would want parameters around the actual bike riding for my own peace of mind)</p>

<p>Has OPs H encouraged her to do things that she wants to do? Having a motorcycle actually could be fun, ( although I don’t think H would ever get a Harley- we did used to ride dirt bikes though- where Microsoft now is- so I guess it has been a while) :)</p>

<p>Life is short- and while I encourage individual interests, its nice to share them too</p>

318

<p>Here’s my question to the OP: if having a nice home, well-educated children, two jobs, two rental properties, and secured pensions totaling $4K/month does NOT make you feel secure enough to spend $25K on a frivolous expense, what amount of money would it take to make you feel financially secure? Is there a net worth where you could look at $25K and say “I don’t need this, sure have some fun with it” to your husband? Or will you always feel that $25K is just too much money to waste on pure pleasure?</p>

<p>(Their net worth is substantially more than $1M if you include the value of their pensions, which the OP says would pay them each $2K/month if they quit their jobs now. That amount of income would be worth about $400K, each.)</p>

319

<p>EK-
The OP said the issue of a Harley came up only a month ago. She described is as the latest toy on the “I want it, can I, can I?” list, not a lifelong dream, like another poster’s H’s porsche, with a picture pinned to the bulletin board for years.</p>

<p>As an aside, I saw a guy (kinda dumpy, probably in his late 50’s or so with a limp) wearing a kipa (yarlmuke) with a Harley logo on it at services today!! </p>

<p>And as for frivolous spending, as I mentioned above, my H needs a new car (old on was totaled last Dec). He wants to get an old junker b/c it may spend too much time at the airport parking lot. But I know he really has his eye on a higher end convertible (previous convertible was lower end). Even though we are both really practical, probably to a fault, with our spending habits, I am encouraging him to splurge on himself for once, and get the nicer car. If he stays with his current job and continues to travel a lot, he can leave my 5 1/2 yr old car at the airport and I can zip around in the convertible :)</p>

320

<p>*zip around in the convertible *</p>

<p>hahahhaha
I call shotgun!</p>