<p>Everyone is bringing their own life experiences to this situation and it’s interesting how people are getting angry and worked up about a situation that they’ve heard one side of and interpolated it to their own situations. I come from a marriage of two easy-going people who don’t spend a lot of time worrying about money and are happy to have the other person spend a reasonable amount of money if it makes them happy. We are currently in “just do what it takes to get the kids through college” mode and will then concentrate on catching up on retirement after they are through. My brother just got through a messy divorce with a horrible, controlling woman who fought him on every issue for 22 years. Six years of marriage counseling could not fix their problems and it is amazing how happy and relaxed he is now. I never thought divorce was a good option but I have changed my mind. Bitter, unhappy people tend to get more bitter and more unhappy and more difficult to be around. (not saying this is the case for the OP, just that I can see how people’s stories of the same marriage can be completely different)</p>
<p>You’re on, EK!! It’s a deal!!</p>
<p>BTW,dmd77, can’t quite tell from the OP’s post (I think its post # 42 or so) if the pensions are $2k each, or $2k total. Fixed pensions are increasingly rare these days-- hard to walk away from. My H will have a pension available when he gets old enough to tap into it. Even though its from a big company, and he was with the organization for 20 yrs, the pension is a proverbial drop in the bucket. Its certainly better than a kick in the teeth, but nothing we could live off of (unless we live in the convertible!!, LOL)</p>
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Ｉ ｔｈｉｎｋ ｏｐ ｈａｓ ａ ｌｏｔ ｏｆ ｆｉｎａｎｃｉａｌ ｏｂｌｉｇａｔｉｏｎｓ ｕｎｔｉｌ ｔｈｅ ｋｉｄｓ ｇｒａｄｕａｔｅ ｆｒｏｍ ｃｏｌｌｅｇｅ. Ｔｈｅ ｙｏｕｎｇｅｒ ｉｓ ｏｎｌｙ ｉｎ ｈｉｇｈ ｓｃｈｏｏｌ. </p>
<p>Ａｌｓｏ, ｔｈｅｒｅ ｉｓ ａ ｄｉｆｆｅｒｅｎｃｅ ｉｎ ｖａｌｕｅｓ ｂｅｔｗｅｅｎ ｏｐ & ｈ. Ｈｕｓｂａｎｄ ｅｎｊｏｙ ｍａｔｅｒｉａｌｉｓｔｉｃ ｔｈｉｎｇｓ ａｎｄ ｏｐ ｄｏｅｓ ｎｏｔ. </p>
<p>Ｗｅ ａｒｅ ｆｉｎａｎｃｉａｌｌｙ ｃｏｍｆｏｒｔａｂｌｅ, ｂｕｔ Ｉ ｋｎｏｗ Ｉ ｗｏｕｌｄ ｎｅｖｅｒ ｓｐｅｎｄ ｔｈａｔ ａｍｏｕｎｔ ｏｆ ｍｏｎｅｙ ｏｎ ｍｙｓｅｌｆ ｗｉｔｈｏｕｔ ｍｙ ｈ ｏｎ ｔｈｅ ｓａｍｅ ｐａｇｅ.</p>
<p>this topic hit a real hotbutton, but enough already! if i were mr op and saw my wife’s 22-page and counting post about how self-centered i’ve been in 20+ years of marriage, i’d spend 50 grand and get TWO HARLEYS…then find myself someone (must be at least one out there) who appreciates me. how 'bout them apples ladies.</p>
<p>Reset your cc options to 40 posts/pg. This thread has only 9 pgs on my cc. And sounds like “them apples” contain a bad apple. Anyone remember The cartoon Tom Terrific-- with Snidely whiplash and crabby appleton? Sounds like maybe crabby appleton has resurfaced. And as the saying went-- “he was rotten to the core”.</p>
<p>Jym626, I’ve fallen behind on this conversation but still want to say thanks for your kind words a few pages back. </p>
<p>Reading this thread has been a huge eye-opener for me. Emeraldkity4, this absolutely stuns me: “…he takes money off the top for what he wants & we pay the bills with what is left over- even if there isn’t enough to go around. I am not allowed to say anything, because I have it easy.” Oh my.</p>
<p>Dh & I have been married over 30 years. For a few years our incomes were pretty similar; later I earned much more than he did, but we each took a small (& equal) “allowance” and pooled the rest. Contrary to our pre-marriage plans, we decided (largely at dh’s urging) that I would stay home with our children when we learned that they would be possible after all. I loved my career, but not to the exclusion of all else. Dh lives to work. Now, medical problems combined with the economy make it highly unlikely that I’ll work again. His only concern about that is how it makes me feel. We have not always agreed on how to take care of our finances, and over the years we’ve sometimes shifted roles on spending vs. saving. One constant is dh’s position that his compensation is our income and that I contribute significantly to his ability to achieve career success. I wish I could express it better, that sounds so “little woman behind her man.” </p>
<p>As for money management, I handle most of it; the retirement savings comes off the top, bills are paid, funds are set aside toward annual expenses and things like the next car purchase, and only then do we consider other spending. I research most purchases beyond all reason, hunt for online deals, refuse to pay retail, etc., while dh just wants to buy whatever and be done with it. I cringe when he pays retail, but bite my tongue since the amount involved would never make a material difference. We discuss any big ticket purchases and many smaller ones, but I don’t recall either of us attempting to veto the other’s decision.</p>
<p>The first time dh departed from his view that all assets not only belong to both of us but were also earned by both of us was when I came into an inheritance this year. Then he was quick to say those funds were mine alone. Like Pea mentioned doing previously (Pea, please accept my sympathy for your loss), I wanted to use it to pay down our mortgage; he insisted that I wait a month to think it over before making a final decision. After 30 days, I sent a check to the mortgage company; it felt great. </p>
<p>OP, I hope you’ll take to heart the repeated suggestions of counseling, both financial and marital. That’s assuming you do want to salvage the marriage. If not, then start making plans and taking steps to protect yourself and your children now, before you mention divorce. IMHO, it would be a mistake to tell your dh that his refusal to go to both counselors with you would be the last straw before your marriage dissolves, even though I think he will need to hear that before he agrees. (Sorry if that’s an unfair assumption, but we can only go by what we read.) My hope is that an objective financial planner (not someone with products to sell) will be able to show you both that there’s room for compromise and to see how it could be feasible for you to change jobs even if that means making some changes in assumptions about future spending. Once that’s resolved, then marriage counseling may be more helpful. At the heart of the matter appears to be a lack of mutual respect; I hope I’m wrong.</p>
<p>“them apples” go back a bit further than your saturday am tv. and i’ll leave my options set as they are if it’s alright with you…and if it ain’t. (TWO HARLEYS mr op)</p>
<p>This issue of marriage counselling has been mentioned several times. The OP stated that her H was not interested. I would suggest that the OP try personal counselling first. The internet makes a poor substitute.</p>
<p>Agree edad. If somebody is generally happy and productive with their life it’s not the first thing you look to fix. Questionable spending habits are nothing compared to hating pretty much everything and blaming it on others.</p>
<p>Dmd, I think the number would have to depend on lifestyle and financial obligations.</p>
<p>Those with spouses feeling the money is more theirs in long term marriages-wow,
just wow!</p>
<p>I think this is different in second marriages. As I contemplate this, I’d love to hear how everyone thinks that should work.</p>
<p>*The husband sees that the money [earnings] disappears because he can’t use it for anything. If he doesn’t get any (usable) money from his efforts, he is essentially working for free which really defeats the purpose of working. *</p>
<p>Actually…the OP has made it QUITE clear that her H often buys himself “the finer things in life.” Also…the money he earns goes to the pricier home he insisted that they buy. I believe he also insisted on private schools for his kids. So, this statement doesn’t hold ANY water in this situation.</p>
<p>It would be one thing if the OP was acting like my neighbor…she gives her H a tiny allowance and that’s all he can ever spend. They have a TON saved because she is super cheap…she even makes her own bras and panties!!! Who sews their own bras and panties??? LOL </p>
<p>Anyway…in my neighbor’s case…that husband could say that “the money disappears and he can’t use it for anything”…but the OP’s husband sure can’t make that claim.</p>
<p>Unless they earn lots of money it would not be that easy to have the equity they have if he were truly a spendthrift. And if they are earning that much they can afford it anyway. The math does not compute. You can’t be spending too much and having it too.</p>
<p>We only have the wife’s side of the issue. She has painted him in the worst light possible, but even with that, he doesn’t sound that bad. He wanted a bigger home in a better neighborhood. They could afford it and they got it. They did not go bankrupt, they did not go into foreclosure. He wanted better schools for his kids and they got it</p>
<p>I don’t think she has painted him “in the worst light possible.” She’s tried to put forth the situation the best way she can. He enjoys the finer things in life. He wanted the nicer home. He wanted the kids in pricey schools. He has said that he was deprived as a child. He won’t consider economizing to enable the start of a new career. These just sound like simple statements that he would probably agree with. </p>
<p>He probably would say she worries too much about money. He would say that she never wants to blow any money on nice trips or nice restaurants or nice clothes. She would probably agree with that as well.</p>
<p>Yes…their finances are sound…BUT…If she spent money the way he spends money…would they still be sound? If not, then it’s not fair. He can’t spend all the discretionary money on himself. </p>
<p>If their finances are sound ONLY because she doesn’t spend like he does…then…wouldn’t you agree that his spending/budgeting is a problem?</p>
<p>*Unless they earn lots of money it would not be that easy to have the equity they have if he were truly a spendthrift. *</p>
<p>Huh??? </p>
<p>Some people have a lot of equity simply because they bought their homes at a time when prices were very low and now prices are much higher. None of that has anything to do with ability to save or lack thereof.</p>
<p>More to the point…the saving grace has been that the wife doesn’t spend like he does. You can’t spend a dollar twice. If there’s only X amount of discretionary money after bills and savings, and he’s spending most of X, then their finances are sound because she’s not spending similarly.</p>
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<p>If she doesn’t like this attributes in him, then she married the wrong man. These traits are developed when he was young and growing up, not after years of marriage. She will never change these in him. </p>
<p>Post #1 says it best:</p>
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<p>They have two different opinions regarding finances and no doubt have had different opinions for 20+ years and will continue to have different opinions for the next 20 years.</p>
<p>I think the solution is that she needs to sit down with each other and figure out how much he’d like to spend and what they can afford. She should then deposit that money into his bank account each month and he can spend that money as he feels fit. If he works another job during his vacation time, he can put that money in his bank account and spend it however he likes. The money that he earns from his and her regular jobs goes to paying family expenses, retirement, and college education.</p>
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<p>What you are saying is that she married the wrong man and needs to find a different man who has a different outlook on finances that her current man.</p>
<p>She isn’t going to convince her 45+ year old husband that he doesn’t spend his money “correctly”. Spending habits are learned and developed in childhood and young adult, not at the age of 45.</p>
<p>He isn’t going to convince her that she is a tightwad and needs to spend her money more freely. She thinks being thrifty is right and that will never change, either.</p>
<p>Folks, they are doing very well financially. They have a 4k pension, plus an additional $2k to $4k monthly in social security. That means they will have a retirment income of $96,000 annually.</p>
<p>In addition, they own two rental houses that will continue to provide income and whose mortgages will be paid off at some point, so 100% (minus taxes and expenses) of the rental income will supplement their retirement.</p>
<p>In addition, they will have retirement savings as well.</p>
<p>By no stretch of the imagination, this couple is well set to enter retirement. A lot of people here would like to as well off as they are.</p>
<p>Actually the op hasn’t clarified if the pension of $2k is each or total. And rental properties require lots of maintenance, and taxes, and to be occupied, and management. Its not pure profit even if the mortgage is paid off.</p>
<p>toodleooo-
quite familiar with the fact that 'them apples is an old colloquilism. Just sayin your post reminded me of crabby appleton. And two harleys? Only if you are seriously passive-aggressive or look like this <a href=“http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/fat_man_bike.jpg[/url]”>http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/fat_man_bike.jpg</a></p>
![http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/fat_man_bike.jpg[/url]](http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/fat_man_bike.jpg%5B/url%5D){kind=link}
<p>And thanks, Silpat. Hope you are feeling better.</p>
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<p>I sense a big issue here. I somehow don’t think the husband is buying that they will wake up and 2 pensions and 2 social securities suddenly will be gone. </p>
<p>Saving enough for retirement so you can still live large even if two pensions and two social securities disappear means that the OP is seriously overfunding their retirement. There is nothing wrong with overfunding retirement a little. But if you overfund it too much by sacrificing too much today, that’s not a good thing.</p>
<p>Spending some money on fun things today wouldn’t hurt them…but the money should be spend wisely and not wasted.</p>
<p>I own 2 rental homes 3000 miles away. It’s not a big a deal at all. I spend maybe an hour a month on them. I visit them twice a year because I can write off the trip and I enjoy the area and get to do some fun things there. I have owned them over 7 years now.</p>