<p>What does the “girl” say?</p>
<p>There’s a pretty wide variety of familial belief systems represented here.</p>
<p>We haven’t had to deal with a husband or wife that has died in the extended family and the extended family has been prosperous enough so that each household can take care of their own needs. But my culture is one of support to and from the extended family. Whether or not that would be practiced (because we grew up in the US) and to what degree, is another matter.</p>
<p>Phone30, I have some sympathy for both you and your H. My brother died unexpectedly about 5 years ago, leaving a teenage niece. While I have not had to support her financially, handling my brothers estate as his personal representative has been a huge burden for me and my remaining brother (deceased brother owned LOTs of real estate, probably tells you why the estate is still open after 5 years :(). My parents put pressure on my remaining bro and I to be executors (and we were named in the will) because they didn’t want strangers handling his affairs, even though we both work full time. They have also expected me (and my Ds, who are close in age to the niece) to alter our lives dramatically to help maintain a family connection with her. We have spent many vacations traveling to be with her (and a lot of additional time with my parents, who do not live close) over the past several years. My dad and I had an argument just yesterday where he wanted me to communicate something to the niece regarding her college applications that I did not agree with. I refused to carry his message, as he could tell her himself (which he had already done, and she is choosing not to follow his advice) and now he is mad at me. I am just telling this to point out the Phone30s husband is likely getting real and ongoing pressure from his family, and it is not an unusual situation. My parents were completely devestated by my brother’s death, and I do spend a lot of time and energy trying to fill that gap and make them feel better. I love them, and consider that part of what we do as family for each other. Their behavior on this topic isn’t always rational, but if I had lost my child, I’m not sure mine would be either even after 14 years.</p>
<p>Regarding a spouse’s reaction to this, I have to say that my ex-H was pretty much a complete baby about it. He was fine for about 3 months (stepped up to doing closer to half the housework , for example), then started to balk. Life just wasn’t all about him any more. He was jealous of any time spent on the estate or mention of my niece (a 13 year old girl at the time). He is not one to spend a lot of time with his family. His dad died of cancer this year, and H only went to see him once in the last 6 months of his life – and he complained about having to go. I suggested he go, offered to give him extra visitation days with D2 to take her if he wanted to go or adjust his visitation schedule if he needed time to go. His parents live a one day drive away, and H has many weeks of vacation in a year. But he just didn’t seem to see the point. So we certainly had very different viewpoints on how to behave in a family crisis situation.</p>
<p>But 14 years is a long time, and giving the kid money to get settled in life after college is not something most parents do for their own kids. Maybe a few thousand dollars for some new clothes for work or an initial apartment deposit or something like that. I guess the good news is that the end of this is probably near for this process. If it isn’t too much of sore subject, you could approach your H about the upcoming transition. Something like, “Once you have finished this year <or whatever=”" timeframe=“” you=“” think=“” makes=“” sense=“”> and can provide <niece> with some start up funds, I’d like to discuss how we are going to adjust our lives now that your financial responsibility to her is ending.". I’d “sandwich it”, give him praise for taking care of him and being a great son, brother, and uncle for his family. Determine is he is going to keep working the 2nd job to pay college expenses for your own kids, or cut back and find another activity/hobby. If you can lay out a plan with him before that timeframe ends, maybe you can cut off future demands from you MIL/SIL.</niece></or></p>
<p>If you can continue to open your home and heart to your niece at holidays and as a member of your family, of course your H and niece will be very grateful to you.</p>
<p>*Not a fair statement to the man. How about himself? The 2nd job is hard on his health. Obviously, his wife and kids are more close to his heart because he thinks (I guess) they can suffer with him for his late brother’s family, only for a year or two longer. *</p>
<p>It is a totally fair statement. They have suffered about 12 years too long. A year or two of help is the most help most families could give at THAT level of support. Any support after that should have been incidental.</p>
<p>My H’s best, best friend (and best man) drowned in a flash flood many years ago leaving a young widow and two very young children (one a baby). We helped the mom get back on her feet, but then she soon managed on her own (went back to work full time) and social security income for the kids. They are now in college.</p>
<p>Not everyone is back on their feet in two years. And I think immediate family is closer than a “best, best” friend. My parents will need extra time and attention from me for the rest of their lives after losing their son. And people hate to ask for help, you know? My ex-H provided support for many years to a woman whose husband was his friend, the husband had committed suicide. He did chores around her house (fell out of a tree once with a running chain saw in his hand at her house :eek:, took her kids out for malts, etc.) for many years until they went to college. I never begrudged this time spent for her. Can’t imagine losing your spouse that way.</p>
<p>I don’t mean to be argumentative, intparent, as what your ex-H did for his friend’s family and what you are doing for your late bro and your parents is very kind (I am doing the same for my dad, with no help from my bro), and I am hoping your ex-h didnt lose a limb or incur serious injuries/medical expenses as a result of that injury, but when a person helps others out at their own expense (ie at the expense of themselves or their immediate family) that crosses from caregiving to caretaking, as is said in the co-dependency lingo. Phone30’s H has gone way above and beyond what is necessary to help the widow and her dau. Do we know if there was insurance? Other family support (like form her family perhaps)? Did the widow go to work? Remarry? Could she afford to live on the survivors benefits for herself and her dau? Cultural issues aside, when is enough ENOUGH?? A friend of mine’s bro died in an accident leaving a wife and small child. She helped to a degree, with forms and some financial assistance and time from her home/business to help the family, but she did not take on ownership of his family as hers (she and her H have no children and have been quite successful in their careers).</p>
<p>From the way Phone30 has described the expectations of the H’s family, there will never be an end, but rather it is extremely likely that there will be new things expected for him to pay for. He should NOT be expected to be a bottomless financial pit for this now adult niece and her mother. Excuse me for being blunt, but he should grow a pair. He needs to see the price that he and his IMMEDIATE family (wife and kids) are paying, and his first priority should be to them. HE should set a time or dollar limit on this blood-letting and stick to it. JMO.</p>
<p>momof2- what I said is that I would make any sacrifice I needed to make for my wife and I know many men that would. If that sacrifice entailed my wife asking me to support her brothers children I would do it. If that sacrifice meant my wife decided she needed to work extra or be away from me for some time because another family member needed her I would support her in that choice. Yes even if it was 14 years. I would also be sure my children understood why my wife made that choice and would try to send the message that they should note the sacrifice that she is making for their cousin because it is the same sacrifice she is willing to make for them. I would be sure that her sacrifice is not portrayed as neglecting her children and I would do my best not to see it like that myself.
/////
I am speaking only for me and do not want to seem critical of how anyone else would see and handle the situation. I am strictly responding to mom2’s post that men or most men would not make that or a similar sacrifice.</p>
<p>Tom
Agree with you- Honoring your WIFE’s request should take priority. The extended family’s request/demand/expectation is at this point unreasonable.</p>
<p>phone30, you used the term “my kids”. Are these ones not DH’s kids as well? Or were they from a prior relationship? </p>
<p>Like some other posters, I’m not seeing why niece would be DH responsibility, unless she was actually HIS child. Other than being a cultural thing, it just seems whacked. Do you have any reason to think there is more going on in this picture than you know about? Any reason at all?</p>
<p>I’m sorry, but my parents would no more expect me to give them extra time and attention for the rest of their lives having lost a son. This has happened to me. I lost a brother as well and my parents lost their son, but they would never put a burden on a family member in that way. We all lost in this situation and we have always supported and cared for each other but no one is the others caretaker.
As far as phone30, it will be very hArd to undo what has been allowed to take place over the past 14 years, there is more to this scenario than meets the eye.
Phone30 you should have put your foot down years ago.</p>
<p>…her sacrifice is not portrayed as neglecting her children and I would do my best not to see it like that myself…</p>
<p>No family vacation for 14 years and continued absense IS neglecting his own kids whether one regards it such or not imo. Which need is greater at this point? The grownup niece’s need for lump sum money or his growing kids’ need for normal family life?</p>
<p>I agree with milkand sugar. Loss is loss. We can’t make it whole by leaning on others.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>I think you misunderstood.</p>
<p>no one is suggesting cutting off all help after 2 years. Periodic chores and taking kids for malts is not anywhere close to what this family has been dealing with. This woman has had an absentee husband and father to her kids for over 14 years…and it’s not stopping!</p>
<p>If your H spent **nearly every night and weekend **working to support this friend’s wife, I doubt you would have been fine with it for 2 years or more (or in this case…14+ years).</p>
<p>*I am speaking only for me and do not want to seem critical of how anyone else would see and handle the situation. I am strictly responding to mom2’s post that men or most men would not make that or a similar sacrifice. *</p>
<p>Just because you claim that you wouldn’t mind having your wife dedicate 14 years of your early marriage to helping some other family to the gross neglect to you and your own family, does NOT mean that most men would agree to such. I stand by my statement…most men and most women would NOT tolerate this. Period. As you say…you’re speaking strictly for YOURSELF (and not based on any real experience…only a belief that you wouldn’t mind.) </p>
<p>But you are criticizing my statement that most men would not tolerate this situation and you’ve offered no argument except that YOU (one man…you aren’t “most men” ) claim that you would tolerate such an arrangement. I still want to pull the BS flag on that. LOL</p>
<p>Many people marry for companionship for each other and partnership to raise a family. They typically don’t marry for a one-sided deal.</p>
<p>Again mom02 you have no idea what situation my wife and I have faced in our marriage so your assumption that we have or have not faced situations that others would not tolerate is just wrong.
I realize that there are men that will not make any sacrifices. I also realize there are two views of every situation. I doubt that phone30’s husband feels he is doing the wrong thing and I bet he could portray the situation completely different than phone30 sees it. I doubt that he sees that he has alienated his children as phone30 says. He may have but clearly unless he is the most selfish man in the world he would not continue this behavior if he felt that. It is also possible that at this moment his children are bothered by this arrangement. As I have said there are two sides to this story-heck even three we have not heard the nieces mothers side and how she feels.</p>
<p>Tom’s situation is posted elsewhere here and it’s pretty easy to understand it if you have the rest of the story. Making assumptions without the rest of the story is, well, wrong.</p>
<p>
Where is it posted and what is … as that guy (forget his name-- oh wait… Paul Harvey) use to say… the rest of the story? Why be evasive-- just either post it or post a link to it.</p>
<p>Tom was the one who suggested that his situation wasn’t as extreme as this one. And tom is confusing men who wouldn’t tolerate any sacrifices. No one is saying that. There’s a huge difference between occasional help or weekly help and near daily help for oner a decade to the gross detriment to family and wife. </p>
<p>And the nieces mom doesn’t have a side or say. She’s in no position to demand anything any more than a stranger could.</p>
<p>
For some couples, an arrangement of this sort is what actually works. DH is a workaholic, and has been for as long as I have known him. Because of our rental units, he is gone from the house 80+ hours a week, week in and week out (he also has a full time job). </p>
<p>He leaves around 7:30 am and returns after 10:30 pm most weekdays. I don’t start to worry until after 1 am. He usually puts in 8-10 hours on Saturday as well. On top of that he is the scoutmaster for DS troop, so is gone one weekend a month for camping trips, and during the school year 1 night a week for scout meetings. </p>
<p>DD, DS, and I don’t see too much of him. The only real “rule” is that he doesn’t work Sundays, unless there is a major emergency. When he IS home, he drives us crazy, so this is not such a bad thing. I wouldn’t mind having more help with the chores and kid chauffeuring, because sometimes it really is like being a single parent, but in general we manage.</p>
<p>Sylvan- this is a family decision (well sorta) between a husband and wife-- not a husband and mother/SIL. That is, IMO, a big difference. And he spends quality time with DS through scouts. That’s wonderful.</p>
<p>My H was absent for a large amount of time when his mother was terminally ill. She was given six months, but made it over two years. During that time she had to be brought to dialysis appointments, doctor’s appointments, and unforeseen issues would arise. As well as shopping and housekeeping. His sister was the primary caretaker, but she worked full time also.</p>
<p>It wasn’t as bad for me then since I was working part time hours. And he would often bring older D with him. But for a couple of years, the family vacations and much family time was spent without him. I didn’t feel that I was being neglected or slighted - it was just something that needed to be done.</p>
<p>
More a matter of wife agreeing to tolerate workaholic hubby, but I agree - although phone30 tacitly accepts the situation when she doesn’t leave or demand that it change. Just making the point that this type of “no-see-um” spouse is the norm for some of us, in response to posts suggesting that most husbands/wives would not tolerate this type of continued absence on the part of their sig other.</p>