Opinions on Marital Money Conflict

Parent Cafe
521

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<p>I don’t really think you can “demand” change of anyone but yourself.</p>

<p>I don’t even really think basing your life around whether or not somebody else is doing something or not doing something is a very good idea, married or not married. </p>

<p>We teach people how to treat us. If we refuse to accept the idea that we are anything but a partner, then we will not be treated that way. The guy who doesn’t want a real partner for a wife may not want to marry us, or be with us, but who cares? the point is to get up and live your life and see where it leads you, not to be living in such a way that we are constantly checking what the other person is or is not doing. Independence can happen within or outside a marriage, but every marriage is better when everyone is independent.</p>

522

<p>I think some of the posters who are saying tell him, “my way or the highway” have not been through a divorce. There will be less money for her kids college education, not more if she does that. I think phone30 should start with a conversation with her H, telling him that there is NO college fund for their own kids, and he needs to stop whereever he is now with money for the neice and consider that all he is going to provide financially. Tell him that he can talk to the niece, or she will call the niece to discuss it. If he won’t take action, she should contact the niece directly for a calm, matter of fact conversation. Saying that she is thrilled that the niece has finished college, but that it is now time for her to support herself, as her uncle has to now pay for her cousins’ educations. Under no circumstances should she or her H be talking to the MIL or SIL before they settle this with her niece, and she should tell her H to please not involve them in this discussion.</p>

<p>Here is another choice… tell her H that she can LOAN the niece money (with a formal contract) going forward, but not just give her any more. Or, as a compromise, set a date not far in the future – say, the end of this year. Any money earned by that point can go to the niece (assuming it is under the annual gift limit). But starting with the first of the year, that is it.</p>

523

<p>It’s not necessarily my way or high way. In this case, however, it may very well come to that. Their way of life seems very set. It’s gone on for a long time and the in-laws are solidly united. Phone30’s H is not telling her how much he is making from his second job or how much he has saved up. Phone30 will have to start the talk knowing it could come to that. I hope I am wrong. I would appreciate from communication experts how Phone30 should coomunicate. I mean what should she say and how not what needs to be accomplished. She did object to continueing the support after the niece’s college graduation and H responded by shutting her out.</p>

524

<p>Intparent…</p>

<p>I dont think you are wrong.</p>

<p>I do believe Phone needs to practice on some smaller things before she begins the conversation with her husband. It is a big change in the marriage and she should expect to be met with some resistance. Starting small, honestly, with a few non-negotiable demands, ie a weekend getaway with the kids…would probably be “better” JMO.</p>

<p>It would help him to come to a better understanding that she is changing. Of course, there is the big caveat, that she IS changing. It will be hard for her to stay strong, given the long term pattern in the marriage. But I do believe a man who cares this much can be slowly led to understand his focus is misguided, to some extent. YMMV</p>

525

<p>I could not disagree more with the above. Phone30 has already told us family members don’t talk to her. They have divided and conquered-they just deal with DH and get what they want. Her issue is with her husband, not her niece. She needs to work this out with him.</p>

<p>Maybe there would be less money in a divorce, maybe not. She tells us she does not even know what they have. She is not sharing in money from the other jobs. In a divorce she would. Why does everyone want to tell women to stay for the money? I did extremely well financially in a divorce.</p>

<p>Poetgrl, by demand change, I mean that in phone30’s case, I would simply tell DH that the money is community property and that she no longer supports giving the niece money except in emergency situations. It is now time to focus on saving for their kids’ college needs. I would tell him what he has done is admirable, niece has what she needs to be self supporting and their responsibility is over.</p>

526

<p>redroses, I’m sorry if it seemed that by quoting you, i was disagreeing with you. I’ve just noticed a lot of “demand” language in the conversation.</p>

<p>I usually agree with you, from an entirely different vantage point…fwiw.</p>

527

<p>What about something like this…</p>

<p>The wife gathers up the financial info that she does know about …their income from first job, bills, expenses, college funds, savings, etc. </p>

<p>She sits him down and shows him how little they have left over each month to put towards their own savings and their own kids’ college costs.</p>

<p>Then…She brings a year by year listing of all that they’ve contributed to the niece so far…with a grand total at the bottom. That amount should be shocking. (She needs to do this anyway because I bet the H is in MAJOR denial about how much they’ve given to the SIL and niece over the last 14+ years. Separately, include how much was spent just on her college costs alone. ) </p>

<p>Then she says…</p>

<p>We will need XXX dollars by next summer for Child #1’s college costs. Where is that money coming from if you continue to support your niece? </p>

<p>If he’s evasive, then ask how come the niece’s needs are more important than his own children’s needs?</p>

<p>BTW…do you really know that he has this second job? I think it’s odd that he’s keeping that money secret. How much would you say that your family has given the SIL and niece over the last 14 years?</p>

528

<p>What really strikes me here is how many women don’t seem to understand the concept of community property. Are there are non community property/ lifestyle parity states?</p>

<p>From the DH is one post that took some money off the top to the OPs DH believing he’s entitled because the money is from a side job, many of these men appear to feel that if they are the ones working they can control the funds, and the women don’t seem to be correcting that notion.</p>

529

<p>Agreed, particularly becuase if Phone was to up and leave the house for a few weeks, he’d be in a heck of a bind trying to figure out how to manage. She ought to just leave for a week vacation of her own and let him figure it out.</p>

<p>I don’t know. I’m not much of a one to sit around and “take it.” But we’ve kind of been over this in another thread.</p>

<p>Hey PHone! Why not take off for a week??? Go see an old friend. I would.</p>

530

<p>The dynamic in many of these relationships is indeed the women have taught that they can be treated this way. If they actually left or otherwise communicated they seriously will no longer accept the conditions, many of their spouses would reevaluate.</p>

<p>Instead of telling women they should stay for the $, perhaps we should suggest they educate their husband’s on what the financial situation will look like if they leave.</p>

531

<p>mom2collegekids…I think that is a good suggestion as a starting point. As well, phone needs access to information on husband’s second job income and seeing bank statements. </p>

<p>I’m not quite understanding why support of niece is the sole responsibility of the uncle. What about the widow (does she work?) and the grandparents. I can see the uncle helping and that is admirable but he should not be the sole one responsible and also now the niece is a college graduate (I don’t even support my own kids upon graduation). And what is really bad about it is that the support of niece is coming before financial support of his own kids and time with them. If phone can’t make headway on her own in meeting and being firm with husband, hopefully she can get help through counseling to work this out.</p>

532

<p>I don’t think practicing on the little stuff is practical. And THIS is the big issue. I like Mom2CollegeKids idea. It is fact based. Not that emotions are not relevant in this… lol. But if phone30 can summarize the info, and maybe a few different options for dealing with it (at least have what she wants to ask for in mind – “stop now”, and a backup plan “stop at the end of this year”, maybe another backup plan “limit next year’s gift to $5,000 and stop at the end of next year”, and a “nuclear option” – talk to niece).</p>

<p>I disagree that the niece should be left out of it if the H is uncooperative. I agree that she needs to start with H, but the niece is a young adult. If the H refuses to budge, then I think the niece does need to be talked to. I speak from experience (as the one who often has to have the “touchy” conversations with my own niece). Too often the adults assume the kid should not be consulted. This actually makes my own niece CRAZY. She very much appreciates that I try to be honest and share as much info as I can with her about whatever family situation or dynamic is going on. Of course phone30 needs to prepare for the conversation carefully, and consider the different directions it should go in. Not blaming the niece, of course – she has probably not asked for this support, or not considered the consequences of it.</p>

533

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<p>You cannot negotiate from a position of fear.</p>

<p>All marriage is, to one extent or another, a negotiation, like any other arrangement, past a certain point. I know, this does not sound particularly romantic…however, how romantic is it to be left alone all the time?</p>

<p>The biggest mistake I think women make in marriage is to drop thier own life from the mix. I never would have stood for the second job, to begin with…I would have been too busy to watch the kids. At some point, you have to come to understand that your time is just as valuable as your husbands. Men are very good at believing thier time matters. Women simply need to enter marriage with a fully intact sense of the value of thier time and maintain that.</p>

<p>It is a battle against the slow errosion of neglect. But, I believe it starts with us. We need to refuse to neglect ourselves. When we stop neglecting ourselves, it is amazing how quickly the people around us begin to value us more, as well.</p>

<p>Another suggestion is to start to hire people to do the things the husband should be doing around the house. This usually pulls them up short pretty quick, too. (I hope you understand I’m only sort of joking.)</p>

534

<p>Interestingly, by boyfriend’s ex left him for being a workaholic and he’s not making that mistake again. I left a workaholic who is alone because he continues on that path and has no time to meet anyone. Some will get it.</p>

535

<p>Ahhhh…but you are still attracted to the same type. :D</p>

<p>Funny, the way we are.</p>

536

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<p>The niece could be a lovely person who just has been left in the dark. However, it’s entirely possible that her mother and grandmother have told her she is entitled to the money, and she believes it. What makes you think she cares whether her cousins have enough money for college?</p>

<p>Phone mentioned getting a part-time job. Why not full-time? Part of the problem is that Phone has been totally dependent on her H. Why not try to get on equal footing?</p>

537

<p>I still think the H is probably in MAJOR denial as to how much money they’ve given the SIL and niece over the past 14 years.</p>

<p>I have no idea of how much was given, but just some VERY rough guesses…</p>

<p>If the family has been giving $10k per year to the SIL to help with household costs …that’s $140k right THERE.</p>

<p>If the niece went to a state U and the costs were about $20k per year, that’s another $80k.</p>

<p>If my numbers are anywhere close (or underestimated), then this family would have given away over $200k in the last 14 years. If that was done with little harm to the nuclear family, then fine. It that caused the nuclear family to be unable to pay for their own children’s college costs, then that is not fine.</p>

<p>As to the statements about men and their mothers. The dynamic I’ve often noticed is that girls can confront their moms because moms and daughters often have a history of confrontations, drama, and arguments throughout middle-school, high school, etc. </p>

<p>On the other hand, many boys have been pampered by their moms…these sons have been doted on. The last thing these men can imagine is standing up to their beloved moms. </p>

<p>I come from a family of 7 kids…4 boys, 3 girls. My mom used to bend-over backwards for my brothers…cooking their favorite foods, changing her plans to accommodate them, never reprimanding their misbehaving children in her home or while babysitting (while my sisters’ and my kids were regularly corrected by Grandma.). My sisters and I used to be furious at the ridiculous lopsidedness of treatment and how some of this favoritism often negatively affected our own plans. </p>

<p>Then, 6 years ago, my mom had a MAJOR stroke which wiped out a portion of her brain. WHATEVER if was that made my mom favor the boys was gone…completely!!! All of the sudden each child and grandchild was treated equally. My brothers were in absolute shock to no longer get these special treatments and concessions. </p>

<p>Anyway…there is something between doting moms and boys who want to stay in mom’s good graces. It’s because of the family dynamic that has gone on for years. </p>

<p>Has the OP mentioned if her H’s parents are ethnic immigrants? Some of this financial expectation sounds kind of “old world”.</p>

538

<p>Well poetgrl, yes and no. I love that bf learned, even if it was the hard way, to highly value his partner:)</p>

539

<p>^^^^
What oldfort said.</p>

540

<p>*DH did start second job only last year to accumulate a considerable sum of money for niece. Until then, all monetary support came from regular pay check. yes, it is humiliating for me that he wont tell me how much is in there… i guess i’ll know when tax time comes?
well, now i am looking for parttime work so that can be of some help. *</p>

<p>Are you saying that when you ask, he just says…none of your business…or what?</p>

<p>Yes, you will find out at tax time. </p>

<p>As for taking on a part-time job to pay for college, I would advise against thatwithout some concessions from your H…If you now have to manage ALL household and family concerns because your H’s two jobs prevent him from doing much around the house, then taking on a job yourself would just make you more over-burdened. </p>

<p>It’s not like he’s going to pitch-in and do laundry, cooking, shopping, cleaning because you’re working part-time. As it stands now, he doesn’t even have one hour a week to attend counseling.</p>