<p>Rude and unnecessary? Maybe mass male-bashing should require more evidence than someone claiming to feel ‘belittled’, and therefore, of course, entitled to ‘really lay into him’.</p>
<p>*How exactly did he ‘belittle’? I bet he said something like ‘well I still wouldn’t eat my breakfast off it’. And how was it that you ‘really laid into him’? I bet like a neutron bomb. *</p>
<p>Are you serious?</p>
<p>Do you really think that the H said something humorous like that and the OP felt it was belittling and laid into him? Are you kidding?</p>
<p>the appropriate response to a critique of toilet cleaning is, in fact…a swirly.</p>
<p>poetgrl gets the award for BEST RESPONSE !!! :)</p>
<p>The idea that anyone would have the gaul to criticize anyone’s job of cleaning the toilet (unless that was their paid job) is beyond believable. I would expect nothing less than abject gratitude after doing such a disgusting job. sorghum, All I can think is that you have never cleaned a toilet after yourself.</p>
<p>busdriver, it is exactly how chores get allocated in my house. “Honey, I know that you are really not that wild about ironing and vacuuming, so I just wanted to let you know that I really do not enjoy retrieving dead rats and mice from the traps you set in the garage” 
Problem solved. I do not mind cleaning toilets, picking up cat barf and dog doo, etc. However, if anyone criticizes the way I do those tasks, yes - there will be nuclear annihilation!!!</p>
<p><<<i actually=“” suggested=“” a=“” compromise=“” the=“” other=“” day…take=“” money=“” earned=“” from=“” renovation=“” job,=“” plus=“” inheritance,=“” and=“” get=“” another=“” rental=“” property.=“” use=“” income=“” property=“” to=“” buy=“” motorcycle.=“” that’s=“” me…giving=“” up=“” what=“” is=“” legally=“” mine=“” supposedly=“” -=“” share=“” with=“” him.=“”>></i></p><i actually=“” suggested=“” a=“” compromise=“” the=“” other=“” day…take=“” money=“” earned=“” from=“” renovation=“” job,=“” plus=“” inheritance,=“” and=“” get=“” another=“” rental=“” property.=“” use=“” income=“” property=“” to=“” buy=“” motorcycle.=“” that’s=“” me…giving=“” up=“” what=“” is=“” legally=“” mine=“” supposedly=“” -=“” share=“” with=“” him.=“”>
<p>I think the foregoing is brilliant and generous and workable.</p>
<p>And, by the way, would your husband be more reachable/amenable to not getting the motorcycle if you addressed his desire to own a motorcycle from the point-of-view of safety?</p>
<p>There is a reason why we, in the medical field, call them “donor-cycles.”</p>
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<p>The problem with the control freak is that it can be gradual and insidious, so that after awhile you are just trying to avoid the random rants of abuse, but you can’t because you can never predict what will set them off. Thought you cleaned the whole house? What about the inside of the dishwasher? Aha! Thought you had necessities at hand? There’s no paper towel on the kitchen dispenser. Aha!</p>
<p>I once set off a rant by walking into church with one child while he parked the car and walked in with the other child (family should walk into church together don’t you know). Who would have seen that coming?</p>
<p>And because you are responding to the rants by doing things to try to avoid them, they work in controlling you, and it just leads to more and worse rants rather than less. It’s only when you pull yourself up and respond by metaphorically whapping the offender upside the head that you actually have a chance of getting it to stop. So good for OP if she whapped OPDH with the toilet brush :)</p>
<p>This is why household chores are best split up according to which spouse cares more about particular tasks.</p>
<p>As I mentioned earlier…this wouldn’t have worked in our household because H would have just claimed that he didn’t care if or how any chores got done, so they all would ALL be mine.</p>
<p>So, I brought this question up with some female friends today at lunch and all said the same thing! They all said that their H’s would say that they don’t care if many/most household chores ever get done and/or don’t care for those chores to be done with the frequency or level of cleanliness that the wife expects them to be done for normal health and sanitation standards. </p>
<p>My sis was there, too, (a therapist) and she said that particular method for splitting chores ONLY works when both spouses have a genuine interest in fairly splitting jobs. When there is an honest intent to fairly split duties, then the division can be by who likes/dislikes particular chores or who cares/not-cares about particular chores. The same could be said about splitting duties between partners in a business…when both have the true intent to split responsibilities, then division can be done by a similar method.</p>
<p>However, in cases where one spouse is readily willing to let the other spouse carry an unfair level of the household/childcare burdens, that system will not work. </p>
<p>sylvan, you hit the nail on the head. It was about the issue of control.</p>
<p>I had a neighbor whose H had all kinds of weird rules for her. He wanted her home with the kids BUT he wanted to make sure that she wasn’t “eating bon bons all day” so he had this day-packed schedule of all these things she had to do each day. He acted as if he was her boss. </p>
<p>The weird thing was that this was not a lazy mom in ANY way…her home was always spotless, she was incredibly handy with tools and could do her own remodeling and electrical work…so it was very odd that the H felt this need to make sure that she wasn’t having any fun while he was at work. They moved after a few years so I don’t know whatever happened to them. It was very odd.</p>
<p>The op’s DH does sound verbally/emotionally abusive (as do the examples of the spouses above with the “weird rules” and “rants”). By buying expensive things that affects their budget/savings he also exerts control. For a couple with two full-time jobs, spending a little on a housekeeper every week or two is an appropriate investment in their time/quality of life. </p>
<p>And sorghum- sorry, but your post was dismissive, insensitive and belittling to the OP. So were comments made by some other male posters several pages back about the OP being “narrow” or a B*tch. Perhaps it might help if some of the gentlemen posting on this thread read this thread <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/999825-uncomfortable-work.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/999825-uncomfortable-work.html</a> and please-- no dismissive comments about that OP or her thread.</p>
<p>From my point of view, it sounds like emotional abuse to say “if I say I’m belittled I am belittled and that’s the end of it”. Yet “if I want to lay into you that’s my right but don’t dare say anything to me”.</p>
<p>There is still no indication of what the actual ‘belittling’ comments were. Maybe they are not so impressive on the cold hard computer screen.</p>
<p>If a person says they felt belittled, it really isn’t our place to challenge or devalue their feelings. If the OP chooses to give more information as to the nature of her conversation with her H, that is up to her, but it isn’t really our place to dissect it and opine as to whether we think the statement was belittling or not.</p>
<p>Exactly. The point is that the husband said something negative about a job the wife did that was to benefit both of them and the home (not a fun job either) on her day off. To put anything down about it is abusive. It is one thing to say, “you never clean or help out.” That would not really be the same. But when someone goes the extra mile to do this job on their day off and then is criticized for how well it was done, it is over the top. If the husband didn’t like how it was done, he could do it himself. He should have been saying, “Thanks honey for doing that for us today on your day off, and I hope now you can take some time to relax; you deserve it.” He should be showing appreciation for something she did for them. The context is everything. It would be different if she had said, "I’ll take care of toilet cleaning this week, " and didn’t do it and the husband had a valid complaint that she never did it as promised. But when a spouse is doing something nice for the other spouse (and it was for them both), to then be criticized for how well it was done…is NOT OK. This wife is not her husband’s “servant.” He should be appreciating the help she offered to do and not criticizing her efforts in this context.</p>
<p>AND…it is good that this wife asserted herself when she was verbally abused. Should she just have taken it? No!</p>
<p>It really doesn’t matter much what he said, but more that he said anything at all. In twenty years, my husband has never commented on the quality of my toilet cleaning one way or another. Most people understand these “dirty jobs” are thankless, and it’s best to just be appreciative you have someone to do them.</p>
<p>HCP, I am wondering, is it possible that this is your H’s way of dropping the hint that he is frustrated that you don’t hire a cleaning person? And that he wants the economic security to spend on this and other similar luxuries by moving to the home office? I’m making that leap in logic because of the comments about moving that followed the toilet cleaning argument, seemingly out of the blue. </p>
<p>It is boorish behavior, nevertheless.</p>
<p>Here’s a good example of how being part of the harley community goes well beyond the “toys” stage. There is a large social function that can come with ownership that many men and women even enjoy.</p>
<p>[Travel</a> Tomahawk - Tomahawk, WI - Tomahawk Fall Ride](<a href=“HugeDomains.com”>HugeDomains.com)</p>
<p>My local car club offers a wide range of events all year from purely social to driving competitions. Many couples take part in some or all of them. Well beyond the toys aspect. You meet people of all kinds and nobody cares where you went to school or work. Actually the best thing is nobody ever talks about work. </p>
<p>[url=<a href=“http://www.pnwr.org/calendar07/?CalendarID=4&thisMonth=4&thisYear=2010]PNWR[/url”>http://www.pnwr.org/calendar07/?CalendarID=4&thisMonth=4&thisYear=2010]PNWR[/url</a>]</p>
<p>barrons, a car club or motorcycle club can surely be a social community that someone belongs to. Like a hobby. A hobby shared with others. </p>
<p>But the OP wasn’t talking about her husband joining a social club around a common interest, Harleys. It appears that he wants the luxury item just to have it and to use. And even that would be OK too, IF they could afford it and it wasn’t using up fonds earmarked for necessities, savings, mutual entertainment, etc. Certainly a spouse should have a say in big ticket purchases and the use of funds. </p>
<p>For some men, a sports car or motorcycle IS a toy and is not part of a social club at all.</p>
<p>And some hobbies are just too expensive, regardless, if a job is in imminent jeopardy, which is the way it’s beginning to sound. Hm, maybe he wants to make a deal - I won’t get the motorcycle if you’ll agree to move to the home office.</p>
<p>I don’t believe everything one party says about another either. People have been known to bend the facts to suit their desires. You don’t get to their financial position being lazy and stupid. People who will work all day on their vacations to fix a place up are not all THAT selfish. Something smells in this whole story.</p>
<p>barrons, while there are two sides to every story, it seems rather factual that the husband wants to buy a Harley using funds he earns. Nobody said he was a bad guy or is lazy. But any way you slice it, earnings are marital assets and should involve mutual decision making in terms of how the funds are used when it comes to items of significance. While one person may WANT a certain luxury item, that only works if the couple can afford such items without impacting other expenses or savings, etc. And it only works if there is some mutuality so that it doesn’t mean that the only “extra funds,” IF there are any, are used by just one spouse or that one spouse unilaterally makes such decisions. And while we don’t know his side of the story, the fact remains that the wife would not like to see such a large amount of money spent on a pleasure item that only one of them can use, and where the funds may be earmarked for something both need (retirement, college expenses, cushion for security) and would like a say in the matter.</p>
<p>Maybe OP should have told her H that if it isn’t clean enough for him, he surely shouldn’t use it then… there is a gas station on a nearby corner, I am sure!</p>
<p>*It really doesn’t matter much what he said, but more that he said anything at all. *</p>
<p>Very true.</p>
<p>When one spouse negatively comments on the quality of the chore that was done, then there is an attitude of boss/employee. It’s especially upsetting if the critical spouse never/rarely does the particular job.</p>
<p>I remember one time I was re-doing the inside of closets with organizers and had everything pulled out of 3 closets. I was using the guest room as kind of a “staging area”…hence the guest room looked a bit like a garage with tools, materials, etc all over the place.</p>
<pre><code>My H then announced that he wanted his sister and her family to spend the night at our home that night (SIL gave no notice that they would be driving thru our area. This would be the SIL’s first visit to our home and she expected the full “home tour.”)
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<p>My H (who does very few home chores and very few “home improvement” chores) couldn’t understand why I couldn’t get everything done and back in order in the one afternoon. LOL I asked him if he would take the afternoon off to help, and he said no. So, I said no to his sister staying overnight at our home. </p>
<p>It annoys the heck out of me when people who never/rarely ever do those chores think that they can comment/criticize the work/efforts of those who are doing those chores. Why would they think that they have the expertize to put forth a reasonable critique???</p>