<p>I understand that different marriages are set up different ways concerning money. Maybe with the help of a financial planner, they can divvy up their assets into his/hers/joint (kids, household). That way there won’t be any quibbling over what can be spent and what can’t.</p>
<p>Though if you have to do this after 20 years, it seems there may be a lot of bad feelings on both sides over this issue. And those need to be worked through too, if it’s not too late.</p>
<p>zoosermom, I know someone who had the same problem that your brother had. It ended in divorce. The person who moved on their own (spouse did not go) is happy and stayed at their new locatioin and is now remarried, the other person in the marriage did not make the move and did not remarry after divorce. I am only commenting how it turned out for a couple where neither gave in.</p>
<p>I can see all three sides of that northeastmom! My sister-in-law is a wonderful person (which is why my brother wanted to accommodate her) and I have a feeling that if she had realized how hard it would be for him to leave his grandkids, his son, his friends and that house, she might have chosen a different path. They are financially secure enough to have purchased a vacation home near the other son down south, so that might have been a better option.</p>
<p>If they have enough money, perhaps it can still be fixed by having a small home south, and one where they relocated from. I know a couple who did that. They lived in Long Island and after their kids grew up, one son went out west and one remained on the east coast. They bought two small condos on each coast and spent 6 mos. of the year in each location.</p>
<p>Sylvan, about 5 years ago I caught my (now ex-H) cheating with a woman he had dated from before we were married 23 years before. The fact that I was able to effectively trace and prove gifts from my parents during our years of marriage saved me tens of thousands of dollars during my divorce, but there were tens more that I had to split the assets for because I had not actually kept separate accounts. I also had an inheritance from a sibling that I fortunately kept separate, so he could not get at it. It has helped pay my kids’ tuition (ex-H has not contributed one dime to either child’s tuition). So you can think it is a “vile” as you want to, but taking these steps has saved the opportunity for my kids to go to a much better college than they would be able to attend otherwise.</p>
<p>I agree! The only people who would think keeping the money separate is someone who hasn’t known of situations where a divorcing/cheating spouse ended up grabbing a bunch of money that he/she shouldn’t have gotten.</p>
<p>*divorce might be better than being bullied in her marriage.</p>
<p>I don’t think it is clear who is bullying who, especially with the OP making comments like “it’s been a real chore to keep a lid on him.” *</p>
<p>Anyone who has witnessed a marriage where one spouse excessively spends while the other is trying to keep the finances in sound condition knows that the bullying isn’t coming from the person who’s trying to keep sound finances. </p>
<p>I have a relative whose wife bullies/intimidates him into agreeing (or shutting up) about the many, many, many remodels she insists on doing to their home. He tries to keep a lid on her expensive ideas, but you can’t win many of these battles.</p>
<p>My husband came home two plus years ago with the same request to purchase a new motorcycle. For me, it was not a hard decision. My husband and I have always had a mutal respect for the fact that what can make me happy may not be a source of happiness for him and vice versa. I was never pro nor anti motorcycle so I had no safety soap box to stand on. I think my husband’s request stemmed from the death of a friend’s wife in a freak accident (she was 46 and died when a truck carrying a cement divider lost his load and the divider fell from an overpass onto the interstate below and hitting her car) Husband’s friend spent the whole visitation, etc, stating how he wished they had not put off XYZ for ABC. And that she never got to enjoy the fruits of their collective labors. My husband and I are not score keepers. He would not challange me on a pair of shoes and I would not challange him on yet another gadget for his garage. We are financially responsible and spent many years build a fund for this and a fund for that and he just reached a point where he wanted a me fund. As adults we are blasted with responsibility around every corner. Sometimes it is nice to be able to step away (ie on a bike ride) and just be alone with one’s thoughts and feelings. And a funny thing came with that motorcycle. A closer relationship with my husband. As I would either go on rides with him or he would go with the guys, our relationship grew into other dimensions. I don’t think this has anything to do with a motorcycle. It is far deeper than that. But I heard “I have sacrificed” throughout OP’s post and can’t help but feel she wants her husband to acknowledge all of her emotional and physical sacrifices. Men are pretty black and white creatures. I have learned that from raising boys. When they say they want a motorcycle, there is no reason except a desire to have a motorcycle. When they say they are fine, they are fine. Women on the other hand are never fine when they answer fine and just like the motorcycle in OP’s world, it is not about $25K.</p>
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I’m sorry for your unfortunate circumstances, inparent, but it doesn’t it seem like what you are proposing would drive a wedge between them, where couples have enough trouble already (money)? Suppose your kid takes your sage advice, and you give him/her lots of bucks, and he uses only the money you have given him to pay the mortgage, the car, the backup savings accounts, the furniture, and other tangible assets. And uses his and her paychecks on food, utilities, tuition, gas, and other daily necessities. He would have to do this either behind her back (not conducive to good marital relations) or with her full knowledge that every tangible thing they were buying was technically HIS. Then in the event of a divorce she walks with nothing. Zip, zilch, nada. Happy for him. </p>
<p>Since you are proposing that you would probably love your kids-in-law would that really be happy for you? What if your kid was the one “at fault” in the divorce? Maybe not so happy for the grandkids, either.</p>
<p>But really, I think men are more inclined to do this sort of thing than women. What woman would take $25,000 and knowing her husband didn’t like it, go out and spend it on something frivolous that she wanted, say a 3 carat diamond ring.</p>
<p>Very true…</p>
<p>On the day we brought our crib set for our firstborn my H complained about the cost (We got it on CLEARANCE!!!). However, the VERY NEXT DAY he bought himself a new set of golf irons - costing more than the crib, drawers, changing table set. </p>
<p>When he had the NERVE to say that the crib set was my expense and the golf clubs were “his expense,” I let him have it big time. He never made that idiotic verbal mistake AGAIN. Only a guy would call a crib set a “wife’s expense” (unless it was some over-the-top designer one. (This one was a normal set.)</p>
<p>I think the H needs to understand that right now, most extra money needs to be set aside for future college costs…which are substantial! </p>
<p>However, is that part of the issue? Is the H against paying for pricey colleges? Would he prefer that the kids go a cheaper route? If he’s in agreement about the kids’ college plans, then he needs to explain where that money is supposed to come from.</p>
<p>BTW…I would talk to my H to determine X amount that EACH spouse can spend how he/she wishes. And, also maybe Y amount that could be jointly spent on something fun for BOTH of you.</p>
<p>Northeastmom quote……*Now there is a big trip involved with others to a place that I don’t want to go to, with people that I have no interest in vacationing with (many of the people I have never met), and although it is not 25,000, it is too expensive for me to have to go along with this plan. DH is resentful, and I expect an angry phone call from one of his buddies about killing their plans. *</p>
<p>LOL …prepare yourself with a “cut to the chase” response. Don’t let some friend make you feel bad about not wanting to blow money on a vacation that doesn’t interest you. </p>
<p>If some buddy calls you…You could make some smart A$$ remark that you’re planning a trip that will include this buddy and his wife and the trip will be to Rodeo Drive in Hollywood (or some other “chick destination” that the buddy would HATE.). Then tell him that if he and his wife won’t go on that trip, then he will be “killing your plans.” ;)</p>
<p>Collegeshopping talks about a “me” fund. That’s how my DH and I have dealt with our different spending habits. We each get the same amount from the community earnings to spend however we want, no questions asked. He spends $100’s on electronic toys a few times a year, and I spend $1000’s on trips every few years. OP might not mind the Harley if her husband didn’t have a habit of spending more than she’s comfortable with.</p>
<p>“I think it is about the 25k. I don’t mind him treating himself to something for his efforts. It’s completely over the top and inappropriate based on our current and future circumstances. And I have begun to think there is really something wrong with anyone who would even think they should do that in a marriage, or that they are entitled to make a decision of that weight independently - to behave as if money they make is their own. It is your own…if you are on your own”</p>
<p>Tell him this. Maybe he doesn’t realize how much this–the idea of one married partner spending a huge amount of $ on something just for himself when the other partner disagrees-- really upsets you.</p>
<p>I agree with you. It would upset me, too.</p>
<p>Believe me, my kids are MUCH happier that I took those steps to keep the inheritance separate, and at least saved enough documentation to trace some of the gifts. As my grandchildren might be someday. Ex-H would not have given a dime to tuition even if he had taken that money. I am confident that both my D’s are much more ants than grasshoppers (as am I) – regardless of any fault in any future divorces (not a relevant factor in the discussion, in my opinion), I believe that if they have children, they will use any assets from the divorce for the support of their kids. And probably not for motorcycles :)</p>
<p>As I said, my child would be free to buy groceries, gas, etc. with the money. I would not tell them how to spend it. Those are obviously things that don’t have long term asset value. But if they buy assets, why shouldn’t my child have the ownership of that portion? If the marriage is solid, believe me, this won’t be the undoing of it. It may never matter for them in practical terms (I hope it doesn’t), since they may not divorce (heck, they may not marry…). As I said, I am willing to be the fall guy, so my kids can say that I requested that they handle it this way. And, of course, they can choose to ignore my request. So what if the tangible items belong to one spouse or the other? Here is the fact: they DO, based on the law in most states if they are purchased with non-marital assets. Just as the equity in the house my ex-H and I owned together when we first married belonged to him. And he walked away from the marriage with that equity amount, I did not dispute it.</p>
<p>I am not advocating keeping the existance of the money from your spouse (one of my siblings did that, but I chose not to). The sibling who did not tell finally did after many years, but I do not think it is a divisive topic for them. His wife is AWFUL with money, by the way, I definitely think he was right to keep his separate. He still has almost all of it, stashed for a rainy day (and his son’s college education, who will be starting college next year). I had the option of not telling – my parents mailed the checks to my workplace for several years (until the year I was out sick unexpectedly for several weeks, and they sat in an interoffice envelope at work for weeks until I got back).</p>
<p>I can love my kids-in-law without gifting them tens of thousands of dollars. I believe we can have a happy relationship without them directly receiving that type of gift. I assume all of us on this forum can.</p>
<p>Sylvan, to me you sound like a toddler – what is mine is mine, and what is yours is mine. Because I want it. You are like the kid at my D’s birthday party who kept wanting to open the presents even though the kid was not the birthday child… Just because you are married to someone, does that make every physical gift they receive yours as well? Why would you think that is the case for money?</p>
<p>Sorry, OP… don’t mean to derail your discussion.</p>
<p>A motorcycle is out of the question, in my marriage at least. Mr PMK has always wanted one and his parents would not budge, then he married me. I fully expect he’ll ride up to my funeral on a Harley. </p>
<p>There is risk you can live with and risk you cannot live with. I supported him unconditionally through a career in the Marine Corps as a helicopter pilot, including combat tours in Iraq. </p>
<p>In our marriage, anything over $500 takes two “yes” votes. I just cannot even imagine Mr PMK spending 25K on something that is only for him nor would I. </p>
<p>In any case, as you no doubt realize, you are fighting about a lot more than money. Money is just the tangible part of the problem. Get into couples counseling or if he won’t go, then go yourself. Best wishes.</p>
<p>And that’s why many men prefer to move on and be on their own. With somebody less narrow. A million is not enough to feel somewhat comfortable and have a motorcycle? That is insane. I just spent about $20,000 on a new motor for my old car because it needed one and I enjoy it. Nobody said boo. In a few more years I might not be able to drive the thing anyway and maybe I’ll sell it and I’ll make the money back. Or not. But no woman would pry that car from my fingers. I don’t think women understand men and their stuff–and we don’t call them toys. That’s for people who just buy stuff to impress others. Most guys I know have a real love for their hobbies–it’s what helps you get up every day and go to work. Many people without a strong outside interest seem miserable to me.</p>
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<p>Why is your DH resentful? </p>
<p>Good grief. I would inform the “buddy” that my husband was a grown man who is more than capable of making, and standing by, his own decisions. You’re not his mother, you’re his wife!</p>
<p>@intparent and sylvan – I think you two might agree on more than you realize.</p>
<p>If I understand intparent correctly her kids are free to use her gift money as they see fit. So if it gets spent on the mortgage, for instance, then it has become comingled with the family finances and it is unavailable for later retrieval.</p>
<p>sylvan, if on some occasion your wife received some gift money and didn’t want to put it into the family pot that would be OK with you wouldn’t it?</p>
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<p>Interesting insight about your feelings towards cars and women. </p>
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<p>Oh, good grief. Of course most men call them “toys.” It requires a level of maturity and perspective that perhaps you and your friends have not achieved. </p>
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<p>I love sailing, been doing it my whole life and I’m rather good at it. I’d love to crew on long distance ocean racing boats. Mr PMK is not comfortable with that level of danger, so I crew in bays and days races. </p>
<p>People who mistake things, be it tiny trains or real private planes, with being as valuable as relationships seem the most miserable to me. When I hear some adult says “No women or man comes between me and my motorcycle/boat/rare stamps”, the only people impressed by that statement are others of similar arrested development. The rest of us just feel sorry for the person in your life who ranks lower than inanimate objects.</p>
<p>PMK, he is resentful, because he wants what he wants. This is a very old friend, and he loves the plans that his friend made to go abroad to celeberate his birthday (activities involved that they like only). The friend would pay for the hotel for 2 or 3 nights and for the food for both of us. The buddy will know that the decision was mine not to go because my DH has been saying that he looks forward to it. </p>
<p>The flights and anything else would be on our tab, not to mention an expensive gift. I would resent paying for this when we have never spent this much on flights to take a vacation by ourselves to a place that we would both like to visit. Additionally, I am going to be stuck in a remote hotel that the buddy chose, with people that I don’t konw, in a country that I don’t particularly have on my bucket list. I thop that I don’t end up being dragged to this thing and needing to pay for the airfare for it! Besides, I do not feel that we can afford this, although we could spend our points for the airfare (something that I would resent).</p>
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Is the male-bashing really necessary?</p>
<p>For every man that gets a motorcycle, I could point to a woman who is addicted to designer clothes and Coach bags who is spending $25 grand <em>a year</em> on a shopping habit, but it does nothing to advance the conversation.</p>
<p>PMK, btw, the friend is single, which is one reason that he wants friends around him for his “dream” birthday.</p>
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<p>Actually, my man has bought several costly toys and buddy vacations for himself (though not for $25 grand) and I have never done it ever (been married 33 years). I don’t think this is male bashing but actually several of us have had this experience. I have never gone out and bought myself anything of significance. For that matter, no, I do not own designer clothing or bags. I have a clothing budget in our regular expense budget (it’s $3000/year, nowhere close to you are saying) and in fact, my husband also gets clothes but not as much as it is easier for guys in that area. He gets other things that make up the difference. However, he has gotten many significant “toys” for himself and I have never done so for myself. Add in guy vacations vs. I have also never done that. Sorry to spoil your assumptions.</p>