<p>It just seems this decision to say “no” to the Harley is based more on long term anger and resentment (a lot of tit for tat finances) and fear than any other factor.</p>
<p>Please take this as a suggestion to take a giant step back and look at the situation from a few different angles–but a lot of your tone and argument with your husband really sounds very much like a mother scolding and controlling a child.</p>
<p>I would take the judgment on <em>what</em> the item is (a toy/fun/adventure) and just ask yourself if your husband has earned the right to spend 25K om himself. Please remember that he is working VERY hard to pay out 300K for education for your children… he could have decided to not participate in that and send your kids to community college instead to save some money. At some point in life, some of us just need to feel like there is more than squirreling away 1 million or more acorns in a day to day grind.</p>
<p>You want to squirrel away 1,025,000 acorns and spend 300,000 acorns on your kids’ education. </p>
<p>Your husband wants to squirrel away 1,000,000 acorns and spend 25,000 acorns on a motorcycle (which he can sell later and get some of that back). </p>
<p>It is your fear and resentment that says “no”. I think that you both can come up with a plan that has everyone having everything they reasonably need AND your husband with a Harley. </p>
<p>Otherwise the message to your husband is “Please keep working until you are too old to work. Then you can sit on a porch quietly and behave until you die.”</p>
<p>If your family was broke or had retirement monies in a shambles, I’d probably say get a bicycle or find a cheaper thrill. But your finances don’t seem to indicate that. </p>
<p>A good man is hard to find. If this is the worst of it (and it sounds like he works his tail off for the family) to keep him happy, I’d go for it. It is a small risk financially in the big picture.</p>
<p>I don’t think it is you spend $x so I get to spend $x, it is more ant vs grasshopper. When my DH wants to spend on something or change something, I am the ant who wants to spend nothing or change nothing.</p>
Female posters probably outnumber male posters 10-1 here, so this is not significant.
$3000 a year? $250 a month? For clothes? Wow. I don’t spend $250 in a year.</p>
<p>
A whiff of self-martyrdom, too; this also seems common here.</p>
<p>My wife spends more on clothes than I do (she isn’t spending $3k a year though), has gone on more (and more expensive) so-called “buddy trips”, wants to get some sort of sporty convertible in the next year or two (even though we will soon have two in college), she has more gadgets than me.</p>
<p>So I hate to spoil <em>your</em> assumptions, but this is not a gender issue.</p>
<p>Guess what, though? I am happy she goes on buddy trips, because it makes her happy. I am happy she gets $100+ hair styling, because it makes her happy. If a convertible will make her happy after 12 years in a minivan, I have no problem.</p>
<p>We don’t keep score, and we are happy when the other person is happy.</p>
<p>Maybe you should try a buddy trip. You might enjoy it.</p>
<p>Doesn’t sound like this is really about the motorcycle or the $25,000. There’s a lot a apparent resentment here, including yours of him having a job he likes while you’re working at something you don’t enjoy; and his of you calling the shots on how the household’s money is spent (or not) over the past 20-plus years. A few things that struck me: 1) A job that is stressful to one person might not be stressful to another person; who gets to make the call as to whether someone else’s job is “stressful”? 2) Are H’s parents still alive? If not, how was any inheritance handled from that estate? And if those parents are still alive, would you be OK with H keeping anything he inherits separate and in his name only? 3) Maybe H is trying to do something that would add to his enjoyment of life right now. Maybe you should do the same, whether by quitting your job or taking an extended unpaid leave from work to do something you have always wanted to do? 4) Like you, I would be hurt and angry if my husband planned to buy a $25,000 toy without my OK. However, is there a chance that your H feels that spending/investing of the shared household pot has been done without his OK for the past 20-some years? 5) Making snide remarks about each other in front of other people is never a good idea. 6) Ditto for keeping a tit-for-tat balance sheet in your marriage.</p>
<p>I think seeing a marriage counselor would be a wise investment for the two of you right now. A Harley is not a big enough issue to end a marriage over, but you and/or your H might find the underlying issues and resentments are. Keep in mind that a divorce is going to cost you a lot more than $25,000.</p>
<p>male bashing? yeah. i don’t know any guys who call their favorite things “toys”</p>
<p>not all wives spend lots of ME money on things. they just have other ways. therapy, for ex</p>
<p>perhaps women should look at their men like other items they were attracted to in their youth - tattoos for ex - “seemed like a good idea at the time”. what was it that op found attractive about mr op when they first got together? was he a computer geek who happened to be good with tools, or was he a more physically active kind of guy who somehow seemed like he could be on a motorcycle, even if he didn’t happen to own one? one way or the other op picked him, and he probably hasn’t changed all that much since then.</p>
<p>you can get rid of a tattoo, but once you’re 20 years into a marriage with kids going to college, maybe better let this thing slide while. then spend your inheritance on therapy.</p>
<p>First, I would not describe this situation as ant and grosshopper … the husband has been way to frugal to be considered a grasshopper. I’m probably more frugal than about 98% of the people in the world … the catch … my wife is more frugal than about 99.9% of the people in the world. We’re both ants but the 2% difference does raise it’s head every once in awhile and always in the same direction (and it sounds a lot like this thread … our financial plan is in great shape why can’t more money be spent on something for fun)</p>
<p>Second, I think “mid life crisis” is way over used. They guy who punts his family, gets a hair weave, and starts chasing 25 year olds … OK I’ll give you that one. The guy who gets to 45-50 who has been slugging away and realizes you know what we’re going to be OK at retirement … let’s start enjoying life more now … I’m not buying mid life crisis … my vote is changing priorities and I’ll add for the better. Is the goal to hand over as much as possible to your kids or to be fiscally independent and responsible and enjoy life?</p>
<p>Finally, two comments on keeping inherited money separate. I do not think there is a right or wrong answer but I think a difference of opinion is a tough pill to swallow on this one for the spouse who believes in co-mingling everything. In our marriage I am the co-mingle person while my wife believes in keeping family money separate … and everytime we have that discussion it drives a dagger into my heart about what it means to be a spouse … my feelings are not the absolute truth but they are very real feelings. There is a second element of the separate money … it can raise the combined number we need for retirement … so my wife does not trust me enough to co-mingle her family … am I supposed to trust her comments about that money, over which I have absolutely no say, about how it will be used for the kid’s college expenses, big home improvements, or retirement money? Since I have no say over that money I do not consider it in any long-term planning … essentially for our family it is dead weight off to the side … it may provide a nice surprise in the future but it has no positive affect on our financial planning from my perspective. Mom3togo would say it absolutely should count … and also that she is the only one who gets to say where and how … which takes us back to the point that from my perspective it is nothing that can be banked on. We certainly are doing fine on our own … but the the lack of trust (in both directions) about family money pushes out our retirement A LOT of years from my perspective.</p>
<p>Now that some people making this about gender, I’ll weigh in.</p>
<p>I’m somebody’s husband. (I am not handy, and I do not plan to buy a motorcycle, so I assume I am not married to hotchilipepper.) Assuming that hotchilipepper’s version of events is accurate, I think the husband is being unjustifiably self-centered. I think he is spending money frivolously when they have serious expenses now and in the near future. If he were my husband, I’d be seriously resentful.</p>
<p>And FWIW, my wife is the frugal one in our marriage.</p>
Our philosophy is that everything is OURS. Not mine. Not his. Ours. I have a hard time with your approach because I am on the OTHER side. It’s HIS parents who have given us money (mine were deceased and what little money they left gone long ago). They have given it to both of us, with the only condition being that we are not to spend it on more rental properties. Other than one year when H dumped it in the stock market without any discussion with me and lost a large chunk of it, we have always discussed how to spend it together. To my mind, it has primarily allowed me not to work full time while we are raising our kids. I don’t think of it as having gone for this or that object, per se, other than one year when we bought a car. </p>
<p>
It would bother me a great deal if everything tangible were HIS and regardless of all the money that I made, or that we made together I had nothing in the event of a divorce because of how HE chose to spend dollar X vs dollar Y. If that makes me a toddler, so be it. </p>
<p>
well, husband, actually. If there were something he really wanted (NOT a motorcycle), we would discuss whether it was a good time to buy that in the context of our other obligations. If things looked ok otherwise, I’d be good with that. We’ve done things that wouldn’t have been my first choice, but that’s what marriage is all about. Some of the financial choices wouldn’t have been his first choice either.</p>
<p>One question- you mention that your sibling is going to need help in the future. Will your H’s earnings or retirement pay some of that sibling support?</p>
<p>It might help the conversation to ask your H why he has his heart set on a Harley. This kind of fantasy is pretty similar to oldfort’s Birkin bag (you go girl!), in that it is not about needing a purse, or a mode of transportation. What is he picturing here – is it about feeling carefree, or macho, or being on the road? If this is the first time he has ever wanted something like this and been this “selfish”, then it must represent some longheld dream. It might help you to see it that way rather than something that is neglectful of your needs. Personally, I would not stand in the way of a man and his dream, even though the idea of a motorcycle makes me cringe. And not just for safety reasons – have you seen those middle-aged men on Harleys on a Sunday afternoon?</p>
<p>notrichenough, no, it is not a gender issue. But you called it “male bashing” and I responded. You said for every man that buys a $25K toy, there’s a woman in the relationship who bought $25K in designer clothes and handbags. I simply said that the OP was not alone in having a husband how bought extravagant toys for himself when the wife bought none. I could relate. Simply put. I never said ALL MEN. I’m sure there are women who do that and men who don’t. </p>
<p>There is nothing wrong with buying things for pleasure or going on a buddy trip IF you can afford to do so. I don’t wish to share my personal life and this is not my thread. In my case, my husband has done this a great deal and has not had the money to do so, has great debts, is currently not earning his regular living and has spent money he did not have to spend on himself (unlike OP) and did so without my knowledge and/or input. I have never done that myself. That is all. </p>
<p>You suggest I buy myself some big “toys” or go on buddy trips. The difference is that I would not spend money I did not have to spend. </p>
<p>By the way, for women, $3000 is not a lot of money for clothing. My husband’s clothing runs about $1000 (though he gets other items that are not clothing that I don’t get and then many expensive toys beyond that). A guy like my husband wears a button down shirt and slacks every day to work and year after year the style never changes and on weekends wears jeans and casual shirts. A woman typically cannot get by on just some button down shirts and pants and a pair of shoes. I only wish. :)</p>
<p>(going off to look up what a Birkin bag is…)</p>
<p>I’m in Southern NH and we have a Harley dealer in town. This is a place where you can ride a bike for maybe seven or eight months. I believe that they do plenty of business here though. We do have those convoys of middle-aged men riding Harleys on the roads and highways. A few years ago, then went through our little town and someone called the police about them thinking that they were a biker gang looking for trouble. No. Just a bunch of middle-aged guys out for a ride.</p>
<p>^^^Soozi, I think you may have misinterpreted what notrichenough was saying. Back in post 54 a poster asserted that it was mostly men who wanted to spend big money on themselves. Then in post 108 another poster agreed that it was mostly men. Not rich enough then pointed out, and I think quite correctly, that it is not gender issue, that women do this kind of thing as well. What he said (or meant to say) was that for every man who wants to spend 25K on themselves, there is a woman somewhere (not nessecarily in the same marriage) who would do likewise. For what it is worth, I am a woman and I agree with notrichenough that the original post was kind of swipe at men.</p>
<p>Full disclosure first-- I hate motorcycles (I work with patients with brain injuries and this is a leading cause) and I believe strongly in fiscal responsibility (and I have a BIL who is painfully fiscally irresponsible, makes good $$ but continues to live well beyond his means, burned through an inheritance and will probably be looking to us for a handout again sometime in the hear future-- AND he owns TWO motorcycles). My belief system is that you don’t spend money you really don’t have. If the OP and her H have humongous college loans to pay off, then the extra cash should go towards that. Just because the money is in his hand doesn’t mean he really has the $ to spend. It isn’t burning a hole in his pocket. Sure, a little play money is ok, and he can probably rationalize some discretionary income, but $25K is a LOT of money, especially to a family with a lot of debt. Has he spent frivolously before, or is this a first?</p>
<p>I agree with those who suggest either to maybe rent one first and try it out (would be a real waste if it just sat in the garage) and if and only if a purchase is really, REALLY that important to the DH, that a cap be put on the amount, and only a used bike is considered. Hey-- I know someone with a used BMW bike to sell, ahem BIL, are you listening!!! </p>
<p>Also, even if the DH “earns” 20-25K by doing the labor, 1/2 his income is wifes, and he should consider what is really left after taxes, etc. If they are in the say 35% bracket, not to mention state taxes, then almost 1/2 of that 12k (his half of his earnings) is going to taxes. That leaves 6K for a bike. Tops. Keep in mind that there are other expenses-- helmets aren’t cheap, and good protective clothing is important. Then there is the class c license (or whatever it is in their state), insurance, gas, etc. This is NOT a one time expense.
I am surprised (well, not really) that barrons is being so cavalier about this purchase, since he’s been so vocal about students who engaged in risky activities and then got seriously injured or died. Maybe he chastizes students for making foolhearty decisions, but old geezers in their second childhood-- seems the rules are somehow different for them.</p>
<p>My H used to own a bike when he was in college-- his mother never knew. He still drools at nice ones when they go by. I tell him its like women-- he can look, but he cant… err… ride.</p>
<p>I am not a biker, but I can understand the appeal. A bike is a fine piece of machinery with noise and power and excitement and a sense of adventure. We all need a focus in life which goes beyond the daily drudgery. It sounds like Mrs Money Concern might need to find some excitement before she continues to sink deeper into anger and despair. And by the way, I think $25000 only buys a modest bike.</p>
<p>I’d also suggest a really good life, disability and long term care insurance policy before one dime is spent on a bike. Medical costs can quickly bankrupt a family. That nestegg isn’t as plum as it may sound to some.</p>
<p>I am also confused about this <em>inheritance</em>. Is it a current inheritance or an estimated future inheritance? Is it the parents house? Do they still live in it? Is this from another relative? One should never count on money they don’t have. My dad thought he had enough saved for retirement, but he is rapidly outliving his money. It happens. And its more common than people think.</p>
<p>$25,000 buys most stock mainstream bikes. It buys a pretty loaded Harley (not my style), a very nice top of the line Ducati (my bike of choice–had one a few years back–sexiest thing on two wheels IMHO–and I made a few bucks when I sold it!) or pretty much any Japanese super sport bike (if he wanted one of those I’d be worried more–al they are designed to do is go VERY fast). Those are the bikes most people die on by far. But then I see them popping wheelies on I-90 at over 70 MPH too–crazy.</p>
<p>lololu, yes, that summation is different. Indeed there are a lot of women who do this and not just men! I thought notrichenough was talking about a man and women in the same marriage. And I was saying that in some marriages, a spouse (and I used a man as in the example that I was relating to) buys extravagant things for himself and the other spouse doesn’t do the same. And sometimes, these are things the person cannot afford.</p>
<p>It’s not a “toy” when it is something you have been seriously interested in for decades. I probably read about, watched races, and dreamed about owning my cars for 20 years before I actually bought my first one. And I bought that first one well over 20 years ago so do the math. I don’t buy or read the books and magazines dedicated to them because I could write them. I love my wife just fine but before we got married 8 years ago it was with the knowledge on her part that my cars were my cars and she really had nothing much to say about that. Luckily she seems to like them fine and enjoys going out on events with the club and to races. I’m very lucky because not everyone I’ve been with felt that way. They are gone now. I really don’t miss them.</p>