Overly Sexual Parent

<p>30 years ago I worked for a man like this.</p>

<p>Every employee warned every other employee, girls were warned about him. He eventually lost his job, what was okay (wink wink) in the 70s was no longer acceptable in the 80s.</p>

<p>He was and continues to be extraordinarily manipulative. He can make YOU feel like the prude, the over-reacting idiot, the crazy one. </p>

<p>I have continued to hear about or see now & again this individual. EVERYBODY knows he is a perv.</p>

<p>Everybody in his community warns their females to stay away and essentially slap his hands (yes, if you are not careful he will try to touch) and I know his grandchildren are not in close contact without supervision.</p>

<p>He is a lonely old man with inappropriate behaviour. He won’t change, he is in his 80s. He is still married, interestingly to a handicapped wife, though she was fine when he was behaving badly, though was dependent on him by the time he lost his job. I do not think he admitted why he lost the job, but she had to know what he was like before.</p>

<p>Sometimes people, esp young girls, are afraid to confront the subtle behaviour, they don’t want to make a scene or make it ugly. The perv also does not want a scene, he does not want the light shone upon his actions, he wants to find girls not strong enough to say no and he will escalate and escalate until he gets anything he wants.</p>

<p>I would have no concern about him making a scene, but use this opportunity as a teaching moment for the girls around you. His comments are not okay. It is a smart thing for them to draw a line in the sand and make sure he knows they will not accept his behaviour.</p>

<p>sewhappy- just another thought to keep in mind as you proceed. </p>

<p>Within the Catholic school context, one of the major reasons that pedophiles got away with things so long in the Church is because of the hierarchy not paying attention to valid concerns and rather moving the guys around, then ignoring complaints in the next place, and on and on. </p>

<p>I believe that since that scandal broke, parishes and schools now take the issue of complaint a lot more seriously, not just against priests, but also against lay volunteers. </p>

<p>What complicates this matter is that the person is not only a volunteer coach but, I am assuming, also a parent in the school. Which means that although the school can get rid of the guy as a volunteer, they are unlikely to ask him to pull his daughter out of the school. </p>

<p>If the text messages are still available, you could consider filing a legal complaint against the guy. The school would undoubtedly become involved at some point in an investigation. </p>

<p>I think you are very wise to get the lawyer involved. Also- check out the school and Church policies because if you decide to pursue anything either legally or with the school, they will come into play. Don’t confront the guy if your school or diocesan policies indicate not to. That could get you into hot water with the school and jeapordize legal action.</p>

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<p>I disagree about this! If I went on my computer and found that my H had a large stash of close up photos of young teenage girls in skimpy speedos, I would not think that it was no big deal. </p>

<p>Could you get the wife to check out the home computers?</p>

<p>Sewhappy: I ask you to reread the following lines from your original post.</p>

<p>“A close friend of my high school sophomore daughter has a dad who makes me and my daughter extremely uncomfortable. He stares at her at swim meets. Takes pictures of her when she’s soaking wet and in her speedo. Makes inappropiate comments about her “taut” and “curvaceous” body.”</p>

<p>None of this is acceptable behavior for any high school swim coach. My daughter’s high school team had 2 male phy. ed. teachers as coaches. If either of these men had acted in the manner you describe above, I would have run, not walked to the Superintendent of Schools as fast as my legs would carry me. The fact that he is a friend of the family makes no difference. He needs to be told his behavior is unacceptable and removed from the situation at once. He may stop bothering your daughter if you confront him, but who knows where he’ll go from there. Perhaps he’ll move on to other girls who are afraid to tell their parents. And perhaps he won’t stop with making comments or taking pictures. The possibilities are endless. But you can stop hiim in his tracks by reporting him to the proper school officials. It’s a difficult choice, but it’s the right thing to do.</p>

<p>Query: Is he a father of a girl on the team or a coach or both? The advice below is predicated upon the assumption that he is a father only. </p>

<p>I think the most important thing is to stop the harassing behavior. He may be a guy with a serious problem but he may also not realize that his comments and observations make the girls feel uncomfortable. In either case it should stop. I would see, through your daughter, or other parents if other people have the same experience and concerns. If so, I would consider a private talk with you, one other parent, and the man. Describe the behavior you’ve observed and has been reported to you. Tell him that, even if he doesn’t intend to do so, this behavior makes you and your daughter and other girls on the team and their parents uncomfortable. He will either honestly or dishonestly deny any bad intent. I’d let him know that because of your family’s friendship, you are only talking with him, but if it had been another father, you would already have reported the behavior to the school authorities and/or to the police.</p>

<p>With regard to the pictures, you can say that the pictures he takes contribute to people’s discomfort and you (parents) would feel a lot more comfortable if a) he deleted those he’s taken of girls on the team; and b) to cease and desist on this too.</p>

<p>Let him deny any bad intent – you are not trying to win an argument but to change behavior. If he refuses to change behavior, he should know that you will escalate.</p>

<p>sewhappy, your daughter has the opportunity to talk to this guy on her own – without you. There are two good reasons to do so: (1) She’s letting him know that she is not a pushover, and (2) it won’t impact her friendship with the guy’s D. If you and/or DH talk to him, your D may feel that her friendship with the guy’s D has been compromised. </p>

<p>Then, if the behavior continues in spite of her speaking directly to him, she can bring in you and your DH, or the school administration, or whoever. </p>

<p>I understand your daughter’s concern about the friendship with the guy’s D. You don’t want her to avoid having a confrontation (or just a conversation) with the guy just to protect that friendship. That’s why giving her the opportunity to talk to him by herself may be what she decides to do.</p>

<p>^Agree with Peachy. Plus it is important that the kids see that when they report this stuff to adults, something gets done–not just sweeping things aside so that there are no waves made.</p>

<p>“sewhappy, your daughter has the opportunity to talk to this guy on her own – without you. There are two good reasons to do so:”</p>

<p>I personally would advise against this. As I said above, many times these sorts of people are very manipulative and try to convince others that they are the ones with the “dirty minds”. Also, there are no witnesses to this conversation and later it could turn into a “he said she said” scenario.</p>

<p>I agree with the poster who stated that some pervs purposely set themselves up as coaches, teachers, etc. in order to gain access to their ‘interests’. It’s hard to say from a couple of posts to what extent this guy has gone or is planning to go but you need to err on the side of safety for your D and the other girls in the group.</p>

<p>There must be someone who’s the head of this school. Why don’t you and your H make an appointment with that person and discuss it point blank? You might find that you’re not the first to complain. It’s important that someone else in a position of authority at the school know you have concerns about his behavior.</p>

<p>Pictures are important. Very important. The photography needs to stop now.</p>

<p>Case in point - Allison Stokke. Google her name and you will see the most vile websites come up. Two years ago she was a hs senior in CA and one of the top pole vaulters in the state (she is now a soph at Cal and is still a top vaulter). A sports photographer posted a photo of her that he had taken at a meet. In it she had leaned her pole against her shoulder and had reached up to fix her hair. The photo got plastered all over the internet - two years later and there are still lacivious websites devoted to her.</p>

<p>Yep, nothing like knowing that all over the world there are creeps drooling over your image. Nothing she can do about it. That photo, and any photos that she might have had on her facebook page, other sports sites, etc. are out there forever.</p>

<p>Sewbusy,
The fact that this parent is a coach as well as a parent changes the calculus in my mind. Time to speak up – glad your H is on board with you and that he’s talking to the attorney.</p>

<p>I’m not expert in this field, and this is not legal advice. </p>

<p>I don’t think either the girl or her parents should confront this guy privately. If they do, he may spin the situation or use his power to get even. This will turn into “She’s telling stories about me because I didn’t put her on the first relay team” or did something else as a coach that she didn’t like OR he will deny everything and take it out on the kid. Even if the OP’s daughter stands up for herself, another young girl may not. She may watch while the OP’s daughter isn’t given the same swim opportunities she was before and conclude she’d better keep her mouth shut. </p>

<p>If this were a teacher would some of you give the same advice? Would you say just talk to the teacher about it privately and he’ll stop? Or would you say that the young girl has to get out of that class or the teacher should be fired? The guy may be a volunteer, but he’s the assistant swim coach. </p>

<p>I think it’s wise to consult an attorney and get some advice.</p>

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<p>Agree with jonri on this.</p>

<p>I missed the part about him being a swim coach - is that the case? If so, that changes the dynamics completely. I thought he was just another Dad sitting in the stands with a camera.</p>

<p>With great trepidation – and conscious that I am one of the few males who have posted in this thread – I would like to remind you all that there is a pretty big and significant difference between being a creepy guy with an inappropriately lively interest in the bodies of his daughter’s friends and being someone who takes any action on that (um, with anyone other than himself). I have no idea what the actual conversion ratio is, but I believe, maybe naively, that there are lots and lots more of the former than of the latter.</p>

<p>Now, that doesn’t mean that this guy isn’t a creepy skeeze. Clearly he has stepped over the line enough to make the girls and their parents uncomfortable, and that’s not a good sign, and the photographs are disturbing, too. But, still, it would be a big step from there to doing anything like touching one of the girls inappropriately, or disseminating the photographs, or even keeping them for private use. I don’t think it’s fair or right to hold a full-blown witch hunt as if he were an established molester. Not fair to him (although that’s the least of my concerns), and not fair to his wife and children. I don’t think sewhappy is wrong at all to worry about that. She shouldn’t worry about it to the exclusion of worrying about her daughter and the other girls, but a good person shouldn’t act as if it were irrelevant, either.</p>

<p>I think he should be confronted by two or three other adults (maybe fathers, maybe mothers, I’m not certain what works best), and told, plainly, that he is making everyone uncomfortable and has to stop immediately. Stop making comments, stop taking pictures, and really watch himself to make certain he’s being ultra-appropriate. Maybe it would be best if he stepped back from the swim team, but he can decide whether he can clean up his act enough to let everyone breathe comfortably again. If he doesn’t do that, people will ask that he be barred from involvement with the team, and will not let their daughters be around him. Give him a chance to straighten up and fly right. Maybe he can’t fix his brain, but there’s every possibility that he can fix his behavior, and fix it well. Most of us do. (It’s called “society” or “civilization”.)</p>

<p>Now, maybe he can’t handle that. After all, at the very least he’s already shown that he’s insensitive to social boundaries. But if that’s the case, it will be easy to escalate the response, and make it more public. (And so far I haven’t read anything that makes me think any of the girls is in imminent danger of more than feeling uncomfortable. If things go on unchecked, maybe, but not in the space of the week or two it would take to try this approach.)</p>

<p>Part of my sadness and caution here involves two factors: (1) This guy would not be the first husband of a woman with MS to have some issues in this area. I can only imagine how painful and shameful it is to his wife, and I would want to spare her as much as possible. I imagine it’s painful and shameful to him, too, actually. It’s hard to work through for both of them, and it takes lots of people a while and some trial and error to get it right. That’s my observational experience. (2) The situation may be pretty evanescent. His daughter is, what?, 15 or 16? It’s not like he has spent years peeping on teenage girls, as far as you know. His experience is probably that he’s suddenly surrounded by beautiful, vibrant young women who are coming into their own. He may not have been prepared for it. And in a couple of years, it will all be different. I understand that a couple of years is forever to these girls, but it is a blip in the life of his marriage and his relationship with his daughter. If he can get through the next few years, he won’t face that overload again the rest of his life unless he chooses to. In a few months, they’ll probably be driving themselves places. I would want to give him the chance to do that before taking action likely to irrevocably change his permanent relationships.</p>

<p>This whole thing makes me so sad. A cherished memory from the past is of driving six 10 year-old girls from a birthday party to dance class in a minivan. Time was tight, and I suggested they might want to change in the car. A couple of them said, “J’s a man. We can’t change with a man in the car.” But one – actually, the child of two mothers – said, “J’s a DAD! A dad’s OK.” And they all agreed that a dad was OK, and changed and weren’t late for class. Sigh. A dad should be OK; that’s a really important responsibility of being a dad. (I would not have done the same thing with older girls, of course.)</p>

<p>A not-so-cherished memory of the past: My best friend’s father developed a problem like this when his only daughter was that age. It didn’t stop with looking, although it was much more discreet, and thus more of a shock when it came to light. It absolutely tore the family apart, though. Raw pain, years of it, the only thing that made it better was his (early) death. By the time anyone knew to tell him to stop, that was unavoidable, but it would have been worth anything to his children, and even to his wife, to head it off somehow if that would have been possible.</p>

<p>JHS, I know you mean well, but IMO that’s TERRIBLE advice. </p>

<p>As far as I can tell from the OP’s posts, no other parents have expressed any discomfort about this coach to them. If the OP and or her H call other parents and talk about this, they risk being the defendants in a VERY ugly slander suit. Moreover, the more this is discussed with other parents, the more likely it is that it will get back to the coach’s wife and D. </p>

<p>I actually agree with a LOT of what you say. But talking to other parents about this and then confronting the coach in a group is not not appropriate. And it’s highly unlikely that if this is done there’s not going to be one heck of a lot of ugly gossip about it. </p>

<p>I like the fact that the OP’s H is talking to an attorney about the situation.</p>

<p>I just reviewed sewhappy’s posts and nowhere do they say that he is a coach. I would deal with parent differently from coach. So, we should clarify.</p>

<p>Also, to whom does he make the inappropriate remarks? sewhappy’s daughter? other parents in the stands?</p>

<p>I agree with sewhappy’s H’s move to see a lawyer about whether he can put her pictures on the internet or otherwise use them without her written consent.</p>

<p>shawbridge, sewhappy mentioned that he was a coach in post #46.</p>

<p>From sewhappy:

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<p>JHS:
The OP is talking about someone who is essentially working for the school (don’t know if he’s an employee or not) and is a coach so unless he quits his position, the girls can’t avoid him. It’s not the same situation as if he were a dad in the crowd. This person has placed himself in a position to be around the girls on an ongoing basis and probably even have some control over them since he’s a coach. At the very least what he’s doing is sexual harassment that wouldn’t be tolerated in the workplace.</p>

<p>That changes the advice I gave earlier in the thread. I think the complaint needs to be made to the school admins - in one form or another. There are various ways to do it with regard to who is involved in lodging the complaint.</p>