^^ @jym626 , you crack me up. A typo in your typo correction! :))
The text sounds promising @lje62 I certainly understand your family needs some time to grieve a loss of someone you liked and expected to be part of the family and unfortunately, none of that can be shared with your daughter. It sounds like your daughter is doing what she needs to do to grow up and stand on her own.
It really heart breaking to take such a decision. (((Hugs))) for you
@frazzled1 - I think your comments are wise. I too have some experience with this. People pull back because the relationship is painful to them in some way. And when they try to explain why, they are often told they have mis-interpreted things, or that’s all in the past & they should forgive and forget. They need their pain to be acknowledged, and reassurance that the others will try to avoid causing future painful situations.
OP, thank you for the update. I did not mean to imply that you ever even considered disowning her when talking about another family I know. I feel your concern shining through, and how difficult it can be when we have to let our kids figure things out for themselves, especially when they haven’t been in a great place.
I am glad your daughter is getting some counseling now - is it for her alcohol issues, or is it more general in nature? Perhaps you don’t know just yet. The recent text indicating she needs time to work things out is a small but very positive step - but was that before or after you tried to help mediate the trouble between her and her sister?
If she is no longer responding to your texts, perhaps you can find a calm, pretty “thinking of you” greeting card with something wonderful like a puppy on it, and use an old fashioned postage stamp. I would probably write a short note inside saying something generic like how you are hoping to send positive energy to her, or how you are sorry that everything is not hunky-dory right now, etc. Avoid the temptation to get into all of the history, and focus on the love instead. Show her by any communication that you want to throw out all the judgment and blame because that isn’t really important - but know yourself that she may still be in the process of blaming herself.
Do you believe she may feel that you have favored your other daughter in some way? If so, own up to it, and apologize to her. Show her you understand you have not been a perfect parent - if that even exists. Show her that you understand life is forever a series of struggles, successes and failures.
Perhaps something that seems silly and childish will help - send her a short questionnaire, written in crayon, asking - “Will you forgive me? with 3 check boxes - yes, no, and not sure” with a return SASE. But be mentally prepared for her to send it back with a no or a not sure.
@patsmom-
Yup! I saw that when it was too late to fix. Oh well…
@lje62 How wonderful to read your update about your D’s text! That is very encouraging.
I think the posters who mentioned how shame and pain can cause one to withdraw are on to something.
When on the receiving end of our D’s silent treatment or lashing out, it can help if I can muster a re-framing of her actions as her pain & suffering spilling out.
During one fantastic teenaged mistake on her part, we told her that if we, her parents, mess up big time, or get stuck in one of life’s many sand traps (addiction, depression, etc) we hope she would be there for us, with unconditional love & support, as we are there for her. We said, Look! You’re a human being! You have weaknesses & vunerabilities! You messed up!
That seemed to resonate with her.
Again, this was not easy. She had caused real pain & worry for us as well as financial consequences. But part of the equation for keeping us steady was imagining my own weaknesses and mistakes, and imaging them on display in front of my closest people and how I’d want them to respond.
Re: the therapist. Maybe professionals can weigh in, but I wonder if they are at an early stage of therapy where the therapist might be same-siding your D to build up trust so they can move forward and address the more difficult problems. IDK.
Thst text from your D? So happy for this positive sign! Take a screenshot of that text to get you thru any rough waters ahead!
Both these comments are spot on. I have never gotten along with my family, but did participate until it became too painful to do so.
@frazzled1 Rifts can be healed, and I hope yours soon will be. I do think it’s unusual for the person who initiates the estrangement to come around to the family’s POV, though that can happen. In my experience, the distanced family members can start to repair the relationship by accepting the estranged person’s POV and apologizing for causing them pain.
@GertrudeMcFuzz @frazzled1 - I think your comments are wise. I too have some experience with this. People pull back because the relationship is painful to them in some way. And when they try to explain why, they are often told they have mis-interpreted things, or that’s all in the past & they should forgive and forget. They need their pain to be acknowledged, and reassurance that the others will try to avoid causing future painful situations.
You say that the “why” seems small and fixable, but it probably doesn’t seem that way to your daughter, I assume. I I am not estranged from my parents, but there are many issues between us that appear to remain perpetually unresolved. And I do feel like this has affected our relationship. When I did try to talk to my parents about these issues, they seemed surprised that I would even care, and proposed fixes that only tangentially help and make it clear they didn’t really understand. So I gave up.
If she explained why she is upset, please believe her, even if you don’t agree with the reasons or think they are trivial. Whatever issue she has identified is THE reason & as such, must be acknowledged, apologies issued (if appropriate), and reassurances that her feelings on the issue will be taken into account in the future. Whatever is going on is painful enough to her that she is willing to walk away. She can’t come back unless something changes.
One of the wisest things I ever heard on reconciliation was a very powerful story the associate pastor of a church I belonged to told. In the end , he reconciled with someone he had been in a romantic relationship with and the other person basically abandoned him to meet their own vision of the future (it was a same sex relationship and involved being in seminary for the clergy), then in later life reconciling as friends. What he said was when you reconcile it has to be based on a new relationship, one based on new understandings and footing rather than trying to recreate the past relationship because you can’t, that one died when the old one did. In the OP’s story, it might be about looking at the root cause of the estrangement and finding ways in a future relationship to avoid that, whether it is better communications or in the way one treats the other or the power dynamics, whatever it was that led to the break. And over the years I realized how wise he was, that reconciliations that tried to recreate the past don’t work, because whatever caused the break is still there (and with family, it is often “we can reconcile, it is easy, you admit you were wrong, you go back to being our bobo who will put up with anything. and we are fine”
@warbrain …the " why " was in reference to why she felt the need to cancel her wedding , not pertaining to our relationship…and that is clearly over and done with.
I have read almost every post in this thread but still am struggling with exactly what it was that caused the rift. Certainly I can understand the rift between your D and her ex-fiance and the rift that might exist between your D and his family – these difficulties would be expected. But what is it exactly that she is upset with you and your other D about?
Were there hard feelings towards her because money was forfeited relating to the deposits on the venue and other contracts? I could understand that as well - with only 2 weeks to go I imagine much was lost in the way of money, people’s time and schedules being thrown into disarray. But in those circumstances cooler heads usually prevail after time passes and the consequences of the alternative are thought through.
Or did she just feel that her decision to not follow through with the wedding was generally unsupported by her family? And if so does she perhaps feel that this lack of support might be due to all that was lost as referenced above? Or maybe she just feels so guilty about it that she can’t face you.
Maybe I missed something in all these posts but I just do not understand the underlying reason for the rift.
@HarvestMoon1 I suspect what is happening is that @lje62 isn’t sure what happened. She’s confused also. That happens. I think of a situation I’ve been a part of. The one in the middle. One party thinks they are being supportive, the other thinks they are being anything but. It happens, if only we could tell people the truth but sometimes we just skirt around the truth.
I’m sure there are other things going on also, but the op is not privy to them. The person who broke off the engagement may have a tons of things going on, that they need to figure out. They may feel extreme guilt, they may have some unresolved issues they are working through.
I keep telling myself I’ll stop posting here and then I keep adding to it! ;))
One thing I will say, when my D called and finally told me that she couldn’t be in her relationship. A lot of the reasons were small and inconsequential to me. But I think she wasn’t seeing or acknowledging the big elephant in the room. She did later but at the time could not communicate what was wrong. Just that it was and it was broken.
@HarvestMoon1 I don’t think the OP exactly knows what caused the rift.
FWIW, this is what my sister is like. Even when she does stuff to screw up her life, it is never her fault. She always manages to find a way to blame others.
It is entirely possible that the OP did nothing wrong but her D has found a way to blame her. Or the situation is just so painful for the D that she just needs to be alone to deal with it. Some people are just like that.
The text message the OP got is quite promising IMO.
My guess is that it’s largely a matter of embarrassment. D pushed for a proposal from someone that everyone in the family loved and thinks is a great guy, then suddenly (for whatever reason) had doubts and started doing things that sabotaged the relationship (cheating, alcohol abuse). When the whole ugly truth came out, who wouldn’t be embarrassed? The wedding was off, people would be asking questions, she’d be the subject of gossip and feeling that most people would side with the guy who was devastated and seen as doing nothing wrong.
It’s not uncommon for people to pull away from everyone and everything at times like this, and the punching bags are often the people they respect the most and feel they have let down, but know in their heart of hearts will always be there for them (parents and sister she was the closest to in this case).
Hugs to the OP. Hang in there.
It could be that the OP knows exactly what caused the rift and doesn’t want to share the details with a forum of strangers.
There could be lots of good reasons not to share the actual cause of the rift. Respecting her daughter’s privacy, not thinking any of us need to know the exact cause of the rift…or even (gasp!) the OP might know that her daughter actually has cause to be upset and the only difference between the two of them is that the OP thinks her daughter should get over being upset and the daughter disagrees.
None of us know, nor do we need to know. With what has been written, it seems clear that everyone is hurting in this situation. I think the hardest part of estrangements is that only one person within a relationship needs to decide to be ‘done’ and if the person cut off wants to spend time litigating whether the other person was ‘reasonable’ or ‘right’ to choose estrangement - I think they are wasting a lot of time and energy that could be put to better use.
At a certain point, we all have to decide during relationship troubles whether we want to be right or whether we continue the relationship regardless of our ‘rightness’ being acknowledged. I don’t think it helps in this situation to try to determine whether the OP is ‘right’. Insisting on being ‘right’ can easily lead to continued estrangement. And, this situation sounds complicated enough that trying to determine rightness is a losing game.
OP, I think that talking to a therapist about this estrangement solo might be very helpful to you. Knowing that your daughter also has substance abuse issues makes you seeing a therapist even more valuable. Good luck, wishing you the best.
If you could just keep her in the loop about family news, and check in with her in a low key way, (NOT discussing the past) you may be able to reopen the communication channel. You don’t have to approve of everything she does and you can still love her and have a relationship. She can do something AWFUL (WORSE than cheating on fiancée) and you will still love her. We’re going through something similar, and after I realized the truth I mentioned above things kind of clicked and felt better.
Someone above suggested sending a card with a message asking her to check a box regarding when, if ever, she will forgive you. It was a well meant suggestion, and I know they said to keep it light, make it look like a little kid thing with crayons, etc, but I think that it would be a HUGE mistake right now to put any kind of pressure on her to make a decision or a choice about reconciliation. I don’t think she’s ready for it. I think she needs her space: she’s told you that, respect her wishes.
I think she will come round eventually. In the meantime, I’d back off and at most maintain a long distance message of support. Maybe a card one a month. Bombarding her with good wishes is in effect pressuring her to give up and come home. Let her set the pace.
If your daughter is drinking enough to result in people close to her keeping an eye on her and watching out for her while she sleeps it off because they’re afraid for her health, then that is alcoholism right there.
And if it IS alcoholism, then your daughter is an addict and the addiction will drive a lot of her choices & her behavior. The fear of letting everybody down and the shame of having to face people who know that she is the one who cheated and she is the one who ruined the relationship with the guy who she pushed so hard to marry her…that fear and shame has, for whatever reason, resulted in her internalizing those emotions and looking to alcohol as a way to flush away that fear and shame.
And IF that is what is actually going on, then there is absolutely nothing that you or your other DD or other loved ones can do or say to make any of that better. Your DD has to decide for herself to make major changes in her life. And sometimes when an addict finally realizes that he/she has a serious problem and wants to make big changes in moving away from the addict environment (friends, loved ones, job, whatever), it can SOMETIMES mean that the addict has to NOT spend time with or communicate with family members for awhile.
The distance could, alternately, mean that your DD is engaging in MORE alcohol abuse, but I hope that’s not the case.
Take whatever your DD tells you about what the therapist says with a grain of salt because the therapist is only hearing 1 side of the story and the therapist is only hearing what your DD wants to tell her. What do you want to bet that the therapist doesn’t know about the alcohol abuse?