<p>Perhaps less, relative to the number of incidences. Or so women on American college campuses seem to report. (Have you followed the Notre Dame rape cases?)</p>
<p>I spent a lot of time as a banker in Pakistan in the late 1990’s, when Benazir Bhutto was PM. The people that I worked with were very nice, but the place, as a whole, is very dangerous. Please advise your daughter to avoid Karachi (I was there when the Union Texas workers were murdered.). She should fly in to Islamabad directly from, for example, Dubai or Frankfurt. Jackuk</p>
<p>After reading thru this thread , I am particularly disturbed by zoosermom’s input
( knowing from previous threads about her Pakistani boss )
Please , please put a stop to your daughter’s plans , OP .</p>
<p>In 2009 (latest data available), there were 12,600 violent deaths in all of Pakistan. That is fewer than the number of gun homicides in the U.S., much less than the total of gun deaths in the U.S., and much, much less than the total number of violent deaths in the U.S.</p>
<p>Of those 12,600 violent deaths in all of Pakistan, more than half were caused by U.S. drone attacks.</p>
<p>The U.S. is by far the most dangerous place for U.S. citizens, and parts of among the most violent places on earth. (We also have a higher percentage of people in prison than virtually anywhere else, which just feeds this even further. And for women - well, again - you can check out the college campus data for rape, sexual assault, and assault data yourself.</p>
<p>Now are there places I wouldn’t go in Pakistan? You bet. But anyone who believes that Pakistan is a uniformly violent society doesn’t know what they are talking about.</p>
<p>(By the way, the comparative India data are, shall say, “interesting”.)</p>
<p>I think mini just likes to “stir up the pot”. I have a feeling that many of the regular posters on this forum have hit 60 and hence, are able to offer wonderful advice.</p>
<p>Mini, I would not be shocked that there are more violent deaths in the USA than in Pakistan. The US is a bigger country and has a bigger population than Pakistan, for starters.</p>
<p>There are parts of the USA that are relatively safe (no place is 100% safe of course), such as I live in a pretty safe community in rural VT where violent deaths and crime of that nature is a rarity. Some places in the USA are less safe. So, depending where a young girl may wish to travel alone in the USA, my advice would differ as to the risk involved. </p>
<p>There are too many places in Pakistan where the risk is great. And the risk is increased if one is an American in Pakistan, compared to just any person who is there (this is different than your analogy of an American in a dangerous situation on US soil). The mere fact that she is an American girl in Pakistan increases the risk compared to the normal risk of a person in Pakistan. </p>
<p>There is a reason why the State Dept. has warnings for US citizens right now in Pakistan. This is not the same as a young girl visiting ANY foreign country or ANY campus in the US, etc. The risk level is elevated enough to cause these warnings to be posted and even for the US govt. workers over there to have some restrictions at this time (see State Dept. warning and warden notices).</p>
<p>Also, I don’t hear people saying to never visit Pakistan. They are talking about right NOW while the risk level is increased and the travel warnings are posted. If the warnings are lifted (or liken it to in the past), going to Pakistan might be OK.</p>
<p>Pakistan suffers record number of deaths due to militant violence 3,021 people killed in terrorist attacks in 2009 – a 48% rise, according to Islamabad thinktank</p>
<p>A record number of Pakistani civilians and security forces died in militant violence last year as the country reeled from an onslaught of Taliban suicide bombings that propelled it into the ranks of the world’s most perilous places.
…</p>
<p>The strife is frazzling public opinion. A recent Gallup poll found that four-fifths of Pakistanis feel unsafe in public. “Life has completely changed for everyone,” said Ali Mustafa, a doctor whose best friend was gunned down during a “swarm” attack on a Rawalpindi mosque in December.</p>
<p>source:
<a href=“http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/11/pakistan-militant-violence-death-toll[/url]”>http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/11/pakistan-militant-violence-death-toll</a></p>
<p>^^^And that is just the native Pakistanis…not Americans who are visiting at THIS time (soon after the death of Bin Laden).</p>
<p>The OP stated:</p>
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</p>
<p>Forgive me, mini, if I don’t know Pakistan like you do, but I just read an article that the NORTHWEST region of Pakistan has been nicknamed “the most dangerous place on Earth.” Not sure if when the OP says, “to the north,” (of Islamabad) just where she means.</p>
<p>I know you say college campuses are very dangerous for women, and I surely think sexual assaults are HORRIFIC, but this is not a fair comparison to violent DEATHS. Not to mention that sexual assaults are prevalent in Pakistan too. The risk of death in Pakistan is greater than the risk of death on a US college campus. In the US, there are some dangerous places too…like I would not advise a young girl to go alone into a gang infested crime ridden ghetto late at night either.</p>
<p>Back in September, Newsweek called Pakistan “the most dangerous country.” That was in September. I imagine it surely isn’t better at this very moment after Bin Laden was killed. Add to that an American girl, not just any person on Pakistani soil. </p>
<p>[Pakistan</a> Is the World’s Most Dangerous Country - Newsweek](<a href=“http://www.newsweek.com/2010/09/04/pakistan-is-the-world-s-most-dangerous-country.html]Pakistan”>Pakistan Is the World's Most Dangerous Country)</p>
<p>I tend to be a fatalist, believing that what will happen will happen, and that most of the time things go fine. Worrying, IMO, is often a waste of good time.</p>
<p>One of my kids spent most of this past January in Egypt, and I did not worry at all. </p>
<p>But I also believe in being aware and not denying reality.</p>
<p>The reality is that things in Pakistan have changed fairly recently.</p>
<p>That does not mean that the Pakistani people, in general, are any less decent and caring, or any less worthy of getting to know.</p>
<p>But it may mean that a reevaluation of previously made plans may be appropriate in light of the current situation.</p>
<p>Another way to think about it is that while the OP’s daughter could go there and be safe and all goes well (good chance!), the concern and worry on the part of the parents given the very unstable current situation and travel warnings and danger in Pakistan is not worth it considering a similar type of job/experience could be found elsewhere (even if nowhere is totally safe of course). We all worry about our children. We do have to let go. I know I have when my kids have traveled alone in many foreign lands. I have survived. But I would be much much more concerned in a place where the risks are far greater, the government warns against travel to, and where communications will not be available at all times. My kid would respect my reasonable concern. That doesn’t mean we don’t let them do things. I think we have been real liberal with our young adult daughters and where they have lived and traveled alone. So, this isn’t coming from an overprotective parent. I don’t think this job is worth the risk to the daughter, or the undue concerns it would cause the parents, when she could do something similar with less risk and where she could be in communication with her parents. </p>
<p>I am also concerned that the daughter seems to have sloughed off the parental concern and doesn’t want to hear any more about it. At least if she were to go, she should not deny reality and the very very valid parental concern and become well informed and find out which precautions to take about where she goes and how she goes about it, and how she can set up a form of communication with her parents so they can reach one another at any time.</p>
<p>We all know our kids could get killed driving or walking down the street. But there are things they can do to minimize the risk…such as seatbelts or not walking in what is considered unsafe places alone. Risks exist everywhere. But it is not wise to purposely go where risks are ratched up many times over. Risk is necessary. Minimizing risk is a good idea when possible.</p>
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<p>Are you really comparing the travel security situation in Pakistan with that of the U.S.? really?</p>
<p>Comparing crime rates in Pakistan vs America is not valid, because in Pakistan, most crimes against women are not even reported. There is no support network for rape victims, and the women are often blamed for being attacked.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.womensviewsonnews.org/wvon/2011/04/pakistani-rape-victim-fears-silence-of-other-female-victims/[/url]”>http://www.womensviewsonnews.org/wvon/2011/04/pakistani-rape-victim-fears-silence-of-other-female-victims/</a></p>
<p>[Assisting</a> Those Overseas | News | The Harvard Crimson](<a href=“http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2011/4/27/ahmed-victims-pakistan-website/]Assisting”>Assisting Those Overseas | News | The Harvard Crimson)</p>
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<p>yea… the easiest way to identify an American is someone with Canadian flags on their baggage.</p>
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<p>don’t kid yourself. The drones are not only to kill Osama.</p>
<p>mini… the difference is an American girl at an upscale college is not in the demographic that is likely to be killed by violence in the U.S.</p>
<p>An American traveling to Pakistan has a target on their back.</p>
<p>you shouldn’t make this thread into a sociological debate, attempting to twist statistics to show that the U.S. is more dangerous than Pakistan. Anyone with a brain knows that is not true.</p>
<p>[First</a> suspected drone strike in Pakistan since bin Laden raid; 12 dead - CNN.com](<a href=“http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/06/pakistan.drone.strike/index.html]First”>First suspected drone strike in Pakistan since bin Laden raid; 12 dead - CNN.com)</p>
<p>soccerguy, Another drone strike in Pakistan today.</p>
<p>OP, I already posted links to the US State Dept. Travel Warnings and Warden Notice for Pakistan. </p>
<p>Here are the “travel advice” warnings from the UK for its citizens to Pakistan, updated just three days ago (the US warnings I posted were even before Bin Laden died). Please print this out for your D:</p>
<p>[Pakistan</a> travel advice](<a href=“http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/travel-advice-by-country/asia-oceania/pakistan]Pakistan”>Pakistan travel advice - GOV.UK)</p>
<p>It is quite comprehensive and has been updated due to what they consider “increase in threat.”</p>
<p>OP - you should ask your D to go with you to a lawyer to write her will. Maybe that will bring her decision making down to earth.</p>
<p>The Wikipedia page on violence against women in Pakistan is a real eye opener. Acid throwing, dowry murders, unreported rapes, and tribal judges who always let the men off…</p>
<p><a href=“Women in Pakistan - Wikipedia”>Women in Pakistan - Wikipedia;
<p>[Category:Violence</a> against women in Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Violence_against_women_in_Pakistan]Category:Violence”>Category:Violence against women in Pakistan - Wikipedia)</p>