<p>I really like your perspective, PlantMom. I probably had a lot more fun when I was younger, but I value the rarer moments of fun I have now a great deal more. So yes, that Springsteen concert back in October might be the most fun I have for a long time - at least until I get to Paris next year! In general, though, I enjoy my life. Work has ups and downs, but I don’t define myself by work now. I work to pay bills. When I worked in litigation, I got great satisfaction by winning. Now, mostly, I look back and think, those poor people who lost. I wonder what’s become of them? I think aging brings a different perspective. Working with sabadog is a lot of fun. I really enjoy that, and get a real sense of accomplishment when he masters something and I know that I taught him that. I am really enjoying exercise again, which surprises me; I have the time for it and enjoy setting challenges for myself. Will there be moments of great exhilaration? I’m sure. My children have their whole adult lives ahead of them; graduations, marriages, grandchildren to come…lots to look forward to.</p>
<p>I dont want to volunteer either, I thought I did, but my lifes work has been serving. I think I would want to do it more if didnt work. I have spent so much time making sure my kids were educated, that I didnt pay attention to my own need. although have learned a lot at my work, and it is a challenging place. So that may have helped.
D2 survived, she said the micro test was easier than she thought, and the AP was harder. The life of a nursing student. She will be happier when she is doing nursing things. She is talking about a coop abroad in an English speaking country, Australia,South Africa.
NO sleep last night thinking it is from the steroids I am on for the bronchitis.</p>
<p>Here I am!
I posted this AM.
Actually, I’ve posted a lot lately and then I take them down…too much soul searching. Ha!
DTE - I reluctantly took a week off when I was ill and it was the best thing I’ve done in a long time. So take care of yourself with the bronchitis.
PS I hate volunteering. Cynic that I am - and I am quite the cynic - I always suspect people’s motives.</p>
<p>I guess most people find this strange, but not only do I not think my life has purpose or meaning, but I don’t think it should have purpose or meaning. I don’t even understand what it would mean for my life to have purpose or meaning: who would it mean something TO? What would a meaning BE? My life doesn’t mean, it just is, like my foot or a teakettle.</p>
<p>CF i like that. it is kind of freeing, takes the pressure off. Although I dont think would have wanted to not do a job that doesnt help, but it is something that is important to me. Certainly everything doesnt have to have meaning. On my BC group everyone says things happen for a reason, I say really? My motto s@#t happens.</p>
<p>Interesting perspective, CF. I’m not a spiritual or religious person at all but as I alluded to in an earlier post, I’ve been known to do a little soul searching.
Since we’re quoting philosophers today, I’m a bit partial to the whole, ‘An unexamined life is not worth living’ thing. I mean otherwise, I could find myself on the couch eating bon-bons and watching the Kardashians for heaven’s sake. Life must have more ‘meaning’ than that. ;)</p>
<p>Gosh, just love everyone of you. Shaw–just really feel Thoreau looks so great but he did not live his life independently at all but borrowed much of what he needed from neighbors. This so bugged me during my back to earth days in the 70’s.
Thanks all for not criticizing me for not liking volunteering. H says that I could organize it but that is not what I hoped to do–I have spent 36 years of my life in the hopeful abstract and would like concrete evidence that something is finished and done.
Would also love a book club but everyone I know is either in a long term one or works and has no time. I am loving “the invisible ones” which is a surprise to me but so very well written.
CF–appreciate your post. I really did believe that everything had a meaning and still do believe in a type of Karmuppance. Just meaning that I did think cause and effect happened. Not so much anymore. There is one thing that for my life is true over and over and that is the “sin” of pride. It is a Catholic thing (not connected for many years to the church) but it does seem that if I ever brag or even feel pride that a swoop comes down and puts me in my universal place. I have what I call “instant Karma” which mean I get away with nothing! ever! No mean thoughts, no pay backs, etc. It is pretty much a drag!</p>
<p>Interesting. It turns out Oregon101 that, as you probably read in your happiness quest, people who are generous generally are happier. [It seems pretty clear that there is causality – that is, if I induce you to act generously, you are still happier and thus it is not self-selection bias].</p>
<p>I don’t like the usual volunteer stuff – bake sales (I’d be incompetent), finance committee of town or synagogue, money-raising for charities, etc. I found myself very frustrated at a worthy organization. </p>
<p>My sense of fulfillment and meaning is not tied up in any deeper philosophical framework. If I can create ways of thinking that directly or indirectly help people live better and help organizations function better, I feel fulfilled. This ranges from helping warring parties end a civil war in which people were dying ever day to writing a book on career choices to directly helping my client save $200 MM by applying the ideas directly. At another level, I get a sense of fulfillment from helping my kids and wife to thrive and succeed.</p>
<p>First off… thanks for the support. Second… I didn’t mean to diverge the conversation to the meaning of life. I am so not ready to go there. But I have to admit I love the easy introspection of this group!</p>
<p>However, I do think I’ve had purpose. While I relate to the comments made by Plantmom about “what do you do all day” and worse, like a “wasted life” or the even more insulting (if possible) of “it’s not your money”, apologies have since been made. S and I had a real heart to heart over Thanksgiving about how comments like that don’t just hurt, they singe my being. At the same time I tell the kids all the time that what I want most for them is all the things I may not have been brave enough to do myself… and while some aren’t missed, there are others where I’d prefer not to think “what if” but on the other hand, It’s not like my life just happened. I made a very conscience decision to do what I did. And while I may not have had all the facts, any change in history might have meant a different egg and a different sperm… a different them! And while I wouldn’t trade a million dollars for this child of mine, on any given day, I might just take a dime!</p>
<p>As for volunteering… it’s been my professional resume, so to speak. But I like projects… PR, Marketing of a event, writing copy, brochures, etc. So… it’s like the only time I really get to exercise my skill set. I do not like to ask people directly for money or touch dirty things (like going through donated stuff). I keep it to things I am willing to do not what’s expected I do. </p>
<p>My sister has boomerang karma. It isn’t that she doesn’t send out negative energy at all, but for some reason her generous spirit seems to come back to her. But then too… she’s earned it.</p>
<p>yes I am feeling open this week. mostly because I have been home staring at the dog because I have been sick. With work am gone for 17 hours so dont have time haha
I like Shaw like to help and take joy in helping my family. he is more like a knowledgable mentor. I do think my kids listen to me. Because I have heard my words repeated back to me.
I am so phylisophical as I know I dont have too many years in my current position. and what is the next chapter. I think we all kind of knew about marriage and children, and career. I am thankful have been a nurse as I could work and be home. Wasnt always too good for me but I did it and while my H was building his career was able to contribute to help my kids in their education. My H is pressuring me to wind down, he has become very protective. so while Ithink it will be a couple years, granted my health is ok, I need to think about the next step. I didnt necessarily live through my kids, but the job and family left nothing for anything else. We had no real family to help us even with my first cancer , with very young children had no help that was awful.
Anyway thanks for the listneing ear, this has been helpful little therapy session. I think with all the responses we are in some form of this thinking. Moda so glad for you epiphany
Ok whats for dinner tomorrow night?</p>
<p>dt–I think that you either do not realize or do not accept that you have been more important than someone who has just a “career” as a nurse and mom and wife. I have a good friend who you remind me so about and she is a nurse, also. She and you have been so important in so many daily lives that you would be surprised! And yes, many of us stepped aside so that the other spouse could go forward. Yet, we would do it again and again for the family. I think we are the lucky ones if we have an H or a W who at least knows that this was a choice. Even IF we do look back and wonder what we might have done–we then look at our D or our S and at least are very happy about that.
Just want you to know that some of us appreciate you so much!
I have never had a family member make one bottle or change one diaper and it was hard at times. I am sorry you did not have help when you were sick. Isn’t it nuts how we would never let that happen with our kids now? My S has his in-laws to help his new little family and I know they realize they would have us at the drop of a suggestion.</p>
<p>This was the strangest formating on CC–maybe I am suppose to go to bed??</p>
I meant to mention my favorite adage, which is “A breakdown is a breakthrough waiting to happen!” ;)</p>
<p>I picked that one up from Landmark leader Laurel Schieff. (? Sp)
Another exercise from that forum was repeating this “koan” until you were “emptied” of “meaning”: “it’s empty and meaningless that it’s empty and meaningless that its empty and meaningless…”</p>
<p>The idea being that to be emptied of meaning liberates one to recognize we “make” our meaning…which then empowers us . So CF, meaningless/purposelessness is in a way the road to clearing for a zen-style openness to happiness of being that’s not caught up in external projections or adoptions of meaning and purpose. At the same time, one is coached to always consider what the human part is making something mean, and who they’re being about it, to avoid “automatic” responses that can cause one not to be present inside their lives.</p>
<p>It’s tough stuff to express, but I’ve found this way of approaching things to be really liberating. Which is a good thing, because I might otherwise have difficulty locating or identifying joy ;)</p>
<p>And speaking of joy, I’m enjoying the conversation here, so thank you for that, but my time is short because its my early am meeting day and I have to go hit the snowy trail!</p>
<p>If we’re getting all philosophical here, then maybe it’s okay to mention the book I finished this past weekend. H had read it, and asked me to read it to see what I thought. It’s called “Proof of Heaven” by Eben Alexander. Short synopsis: successful neurosurgeon who doesn’t really believe in God has a near-death experience where medically the part of the brain that makes us human was wiped out. In his extended coma he experiences some amazing things, and when he recovers (which he shouldn’t have) he feels compelled to share his experience. While he didn’t initially use the word God to describe what he experienced, and “proof of heaven” wasn’t his idea for the book title, in the book he shares the message he hears, which is, in part: “You are loved, deeply cherished, forever.” </p>
<p>The book has its critics (doesn’t everything!) but I found it to be very interesting. As a religious studies major, I studied several world religions, and to me his experience seemed consistent with many modern and ancient understandings of God (whatever terms are used), outside of creed or doctrine. </p>
<p>Pretty much my entire life I have been what some call “religious.” Personally, for me life has a spiritual element that I am very conscious of.</p>
<p>I am a Christian, yet that is my thought also. I can’t buy into the idea that everything that happens is all part of a detailed plan. I think that whether it’s the best person on the planet or the worst, if a drunk driver is speeding the wrong way down the highway, the other driver isn’t going to have a good outcome.</p>
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<p>I think of that, also.</p>
<p>Here’s a new issue. I think my mother should get a kitten. (She’s not a dog person.) I don’t think she would ever agree because her house is so immaculate that she probably could not stand to have a hint of cat hair anywhere. However, is it moral for me to even try to convince her? At 79, an indoor cat would very likely outlive her. But I think it needs to be a kitten, so she can delight in the cute factor. Oh well, I’m pretty positive she won’t even consider it.</p>
<p>I don’t know I have heard of senior citizens tripping over pets etc and then falling & breaking a hip.
H worked with an older woman whose cat jumped on her in bed and broke one of her ribs. (Thin little old lady and a big cat)</p>
<p>I think I’m definitely in the camp of taking life as it comes; and rather than believing that we follow some scripted predestined route, we’re presented with a multitude of choices for which we decide for better or worse our path. And the decisions we make, realizing of course that they’re most often not binary, should be based on the idea of “do no harm”. My current book group started as a Catholic fiction reading group. While we’ve migrated away from religious reading almost completely, and expanded and contracted our numbers, this theme of “the way we live now, by choice” has been primary in many, many of our discussions. I also believe in pure luck of the draw. </p>
<p>Missy, we wanted to give MIL a kitten after FIL died. She said no way. She didn’t want to deal with the litterbox, cat care when she went away, and the responsibility of the vet.</p>
But I have to admit I love the easy introspection of this group!</p>